Twodogs

I also wonder if Sano's numbers look different if he played 81 games at Coors field?

Trout has been hurt quite a bit lately. But he is still a .305 career hitter with a .419 career on base percentage. He has over 300 home runs and almost 1500 hits plus he has over 200 stolen bases and he's only 2 years older than Buck. Trout won the rookie of the year, 9 x all star, 8 time silver slugger 3 x MVP. If Buck were to become an All Star and win the silver slugger every year of his contract he still wouldn't catch Trout. Man I would love to see Buck win the silver slugger the next 7 years straight because that would mean the twins would be doing really good. But as much as I want it, I don't see Buck passing up Trout. Trout is probably almost a hall of famer if he retired now.

I wonder if Falvey took a course on Hypnosis during the lockout. I feel like Pohlad's going to come too in a few days and cancel that check. ?

Like I said earlier, I figured they traded Berrios because they weren't going to be competitive this year, maybe in a year or two. That's why the long term deal for Buck and a rotation of a bunch of young dudes to prepare them for next year or the year after But if you were planning on being competitive this year. Then I'm ok with the Petty for Gray deal, and then they should have kept Berrios and had a good 1 - 2 punch. But if they are going to be a middle of the pack to the back of the pack type of team then I'd rather have kept Petty and gone with the young guys to see what they can do at the MLB level. Because Gray, Bundy, and some guys like Dobnak aren't going to get it done. I suppose if they are in the back of the heap at the end of the season Gray can be shipped off to a contender for some prospects once again. But they won't really know what those prospects have so it will be like re-setting once again. JMO

On a low key note, because don't get me wrong I think Gray is a good pitcher and would have loved to see the Twins pair Berrios and Gray up together in the same rotation. However, now looking at it, is Sonny Gray an injury risk? I mean he only threw 135 innings last year and had a 4.19 era, that's even more of a red flag since he pitched in the NL and they get to face a pitcher a couple times every game instead of a Nelson Cruz type. I hope he's ok, but it's kind of concerning to me.

My thinking is why trade a #1 draft pick to be mediocre? I mean I like the trade if the Twins were really planning on winning something this year. But they didn't win last year with Berrios so why would they win this year with Gray? So let's say the Twins had kept Berrios and tried to resign him like Toronto did. And then they traded for Gray now I'd be like heck yeah! Let's go for it. But this move realistically puts the Twins right back where they were last season.

I also can't see either of those two in a Marlins uniform.

Always fun to armchair quarterback a draft from more than 10 years ago. However a couple of thoughts. Yes a couple of guys in each draft out performed the Twins pick. But my question is, how many guys that were picked before these guys did worse than the Twins pick. Also, I really hope I'm wrong, but after seeing teams like Cleveland and Tampa Bay develop so many decent young players who come through their system, I really wonder how a guy like Lance Lynn or Josh Donaldson would have turned out had they ended up in the Twins organization? I would hope just as good, but maybe these guys just had some guru help them out with something in like A ball that made the difference? Maybe the teams they were on had that magic opening that allowed them the extra playing time to hone their craft? Who knows, but seems like the Twins picks did ok, and who was responsible for those drafts?

I'd like to see the Twins go with their young guys. I know the Twins have a lot of up and coming pitching prospects. I know none of them will be able to pitch enough innings this year to man the staff with 5 guys. I was thinking if the Twins were really going to punt on this season, which it looks like that will be happening at this point in time. Then maybe instead of piggybacking guys together for 3 innings apiece maybe they should run out a 7 man rotation except throw Bundy every 5 days. Then have the other guys throw 6 innings, or at least push their pitch count to a decent level and then that guy will have 6 or 7 days off before his next start, along with moving a few guys up and down to St Paul, that should keep all of the young guys over all innings down. But it also allows them to go deeper into ball games so they are more ready next year to be quality starters next year? Just a different idea if they are planning to go with their young guys.

Who else are they supposed to sign right now?? Everything is always made out to be a big deal when I'm pretty sure this one isn't.

I mean they have 2 choices. Sign Rodon and Pineda then you'd have Bundy, Ober and Ryan to complete the rotation. Or you punt next year and see what they can develop. I mean 7 of their top 10 prospects are pitchers. Bring them up and let them fly. I mean next year won't be good but if you hit on 2 or 3 of those kids now you have a very bright future. But if you don't bring them up, then you never know what you have and the future is still bleak because you don't know and will continue to not know what they have. So either go with Rodon and Pineda or go with the young guys. If you go with the young guys you could run out a 6 man rotation to limit their innings and such. But do one or the other, I'd hate to see them half ass it again with a shoemaker type singing.

I'm really glad the Twins brought Buck back. Hopefully they keep the rest of the band around and go out and get a good pitcher to go along with the young up and coming pitchers.

Understandably people will look at people who cheated in a different light. But I mean how many football players are in the hall of fame who have used performance enhancers at some point in time. Those types of arguments can go on forever. But I guess my only thing that I look at, is no matter how distasteful some of these players may be, were they the best players in their era??? If yes, then I guess they should probably be in. I mean people just don't like Barry Bonds, people like David Ortiz and because of that I think Ortiz has a better chance to get in and he has that same performance enhancement cloud that follows him around also. I mean is it fair that one guy is overall liked better than another? I mean were these guys the best of their era? I mean you could put the vaunted asterisk by their names as saying they were the best of their era, but that it was the steroid era, so maybe the records don't quite mean as much, just like Roger Maris's home run record didn't mean as much because of the 8 extra games. But was it not still great? So these guys are the record holders of their era, not the best guys, but they were the best players and that is really all it should be voted on.

Of course all contracts are realistically a gamble. I just get fed up with the rhetoric that we get shoveled that Berrios, and others, wouldn't sign because he was absolutely going to go for free agency. Then we see that he signs with out going for free agency. Like I said we can split hairs whether he's worth 18 mil per year, but if he just maintains what he's been doing without significant injury then he is worth it. So either the front office was lying to us, (leading us astray), or Berrios simply didn't want to play for the team that drafted him the only organization that he's known. He'd rather play for some organization that he has no idea what goes on rather than the Twins. So to me either scenario is troubling. Especially because it's been my favorite team my whole life, to feel like either we were all lied to, or these guys can't stand being here so much that the Twins simply can't keep them. Either one is a big problem for the long term health of the franchise. Dont get me wrong, like I said earlier, I hope those two guys we got for Berrios become regular all starts year in and year out. But I have also always said that a bird in the hand is worth at least 2 in the Bush leagues. Jose was definitely a very good bird and it seems to me that many of us are trying to rationalize it by saying he wasn't that good. But he was good, like you said at times he could be a #2 but there were times he was definitely a #1 also. So I'd like to think that he should get better for the next 3 years or so before he starts to decline. Nonetheless, I hope these types of behaviors don't continue as more superstars and their contracts start to come due. I mean next up is Byron.

So out of the top 10 in fip 8 of them are from the national league?? I'd say that's a pretty significant difference. Burnes was out of this world with a 1.63. but there is a .2 difference between number 2 and number 3. There is another .2 difference between #3 and #5? And then another .2 difference between #5 and #9. That's a lot of .2's. But I'd say significantly that most of the pitchers in the top 10 in fip are NL guys, but you're saying that if Berrios was in the NL that his wouldn't significantly go down? I mean yeah you won't face the same pitcher over and over again, as they have to bring in relief pitchers and what not, but most teams benches don't go beyond about 4 - 5 guys, so it's not like they can pinch hit for the pitcher every time he is due up either. Plus we are talking about bench players here, so what's the difference between the average bench guy and the average starter/everyday player. Who would pitchers prefer to face? A guy coming off the bench cold or a DH who's only job is the swing the stick on a daily basis? Yeah they signed Kepler, Polanco, and Sano, but let's not get crazy about those signing as they signed them through their ARB years which in the long run probably saved them money. So let's not get too warm and fuzzy about how they feel about the players in MN from a management standpoint. So coming off a good year they signed a free agent to a big contract, and now they are unwilling to sign a home grown, top pitcher in all of baseball because they came off of a bad year. I can see your point on this, however if that is the case then why bother signing anyone this off season? Why not just go with the young guys and see what they have? Because what you are saying is that when the signed Donaldson that they were attempting to put together a WS team, and now they are coming off of an 89 loss season. So I don't really want to hear about them signing Stroman or any of those guys because we are coming off of a losing season? I mean we can split hairs here, but Berrios is worth that contract. If he wasn't Toronto wouldn't have offered it to him. Yes we can't envision what might happen, he could die in a plane crash for all we know, so trying to guess as to what the new CBA is going to have and how it will affect player salaries is all speculative. But Berrios has been one of the best pitchers in baseball the last few years. He been consistent, he been durable, he will compete against anyone. We can continue to split hairs, but Toronto has a team of super stars and they wanted to lock him up, so they obviously feel that he is also a superstar and think that he will help them. He could have helped the Twins, but it appears that the Twins would rather dumpster dive and hope they hit on someone. Which is fine, but let's not try to rationalize that Jose wasnt any good or not good enough for that contract when we see guys that havent pitched in two years signing for big money. I hope the guys they got for Berrios become studs, but I'm still not going to be convinced that Berrios isn't really that good because he is good. I'm also not going to try and rationalize, oh well I'm glad we didn't have to pay him 18 mill per year when other lesser guys are going to make that much or more.

There is a lot of supposing there. I mean no one knows what the next CBA is going to bring, on the flip side of that why would anyone sign anybody until the new CBA? They aren't thinking about the new CBA when signing guys right now or they probably would just be waiting. They wanted him because they think he is better than what they can find out there. If they felt they could get someone else better then they wouldn't have signed him.

Just like you said though, it's a counting stat, so where would Jose's counting numbers be if he got to face a pitcher in the lineup 3 or 4 times every single game? So of course when you compare to the National league stats are going to be skewed. Also how big of a gamble was it to sign Josh Donaldson to 95 million after he was already 34 years old. Berrios whole contract only gets him to his 34th birthday. Don't get me wrong, I like Josh Donaldson, and when the Twins signed him, I didn't see too many people complaining about it at all, but if it's ok to sign Donaldson why is it not ok to sign Berrios? This whole thing really shows that the Twins really could care less about their players, and now I think we can kind of see why they have a real tough time signing players of any significance. We now know more the reasons why they don't want to come to Minnesota, it's probably not because of the weather as much as it is about really not wanting to play here if they can help it.

I'm starting to think that, and I know as regular people we all sit around and wish we could all be baseball players, that they have "the life" for young dudes in their 20's and 30's. But I'm starting to maybe think that the work environment in Minnesota just isn't good?? I mean if these home grown guys want out and they sign right away with other teams what does that say?? I mean we were all led to believe that Berrios was hell bent on going through free agency. That might have only been the case had he stayed in Minnesota?? Maybe Toronto has a better work environment and he decided to sign for a reasonable amount? I mean we all saw what they did to Buxton with the service time crap, im sure everyone else has seen this stuff too.

I think they'd be better off going all in on a rebuild as far as the pitching staff goes. I mean use Ryan and Ober. Bring up SWR or Balazovic and pitch them. The more I see the Twins baby these guys for years and years next thing you know is that they can't do it. I mean bring them up when they are young 22 - 23 and if they get blown up then send them down and give them another year or so to figure it out. But the twins keep them down there till they are 25 or 26 and if they don't do well they are phased out because they are now too old. Don't get me wrong, it was a different thing when they were coming off of a division championship and you had Berrios, Pineda, Odrorrzzi, Maeda and a staff of veterans anchoring your rotation. But now it's got to be a different strategy, and throwing everyone for 3 innings is an experiment that in the long run won't develop anyone for the future. You'd be doing that for the here and now and then punt and start over the next season. Bringing up the young guys to see if they can pitch will show development for the future. If it works in the here and now great!!! If it doesn't then maybe you find 2 or 3 guys in your system that can handle it. If you don't then you know that you have to go to the next wave of youngsters until you find some guys who can pitch. Try some of the young guys and see what they can do. Then at least those guys will have a baseline and know what they have to work on to be able to have a successful career.

I'd say that's the definition of throwing crap at the wall and seeing what sticks. I mean yeah you can say we have a lot of prospects at the top of the organization, but nothing has planned out, I mean Bailey Ober looks like he could be ok, but I mean really he is already 26 years old. He's barely on the radar and he's almost past his prime. I mean it seems like the Twins idea of developing pitching is similar to composting. Just keep them all down on the farm and stir them up once in awhile to see what stinks. Don't get me wrong, I'm praying for the day another Jose Berrios shows up, I'm hoping for another Frank Viola, I'd take another Brad Radke or two. But the cynical side of me just keeps telling me to look around, what has come out of the system as far as starting pitching?? has anything really changed?? Now you're trying to tell me that picking up Garrett Richards off of the scrap heap and praying that he can throw 3 innings is developing pitching? Again, I'm just looking around and seeing what they keep doing. I'm in hope and pray mode, but again I usually hope and pray with my eyes closed.

But Falvey and Levine were supposed to be pitching Gurus, so isn't it a failure if by now they havent developed any pitching and are looking for creative ways to fill the stopgap of a pitching staff?

I doubt that Colome chose to leave as making money in professional baseball is no guarantee. So I'd bet if he was the only one who had the choice to leave or stay he would have stayed.

This was a good sarcastic story. I wonder however what the 2022 Twins would do with a starting pitcher after two years of going 11 - 25 with a 5.38 ERA in 56 games started. Figure out those stats. From a former Twin and imagine if Bailey Ober or Joe Ryan had those same exact stats over a two year period if anyone would still want them around?? Don't get me wrong, I think beyond WAR and computer numbers and I feel that Colome was just not a good fit with the Twins and their clubhouse. So in no way shape or form would I want Colome back. I would have been more along the lines of they should have tried to keep Trevor May. He was a clubhouse fit and has good stuff. But nonetheless. How many people get rid of that starter I brought up??

Honestly, didn't the Twins lose Badoo as a rule 5 last year. They got rid of Wade for nothing, etc.... I think the Twins farm system is probably a little too deep with close to MLB ready prospects right now. Probably wouldn't hurt the Twins at all to lose a pick or two for a guy or two that is MLB proven. Or trade some of those close to MLB ready kids for a couple of guys that can actually play in the MLB and keep the picks to restock what you traded away?

Well I remember reading a lot of stuff that said that Mauer was kind of an outside candidate for the HOF. But I've been reading a lot of stuff that says Posey is some sort of lock for the HOF. To me if Posey and his 1500 hits is a lock then I'd think Mauer and his over 2100 hits should also be a lock. If Mauer isn't a lock then no way should Posey be a lock in my opinion.