DocBauer

But honestly, how else do you build a pen without throwing tons of $ to FA and hope they don't become injured or flame out? SOME relievers are simply relievers almost from the day they're drafted, but that's a small minority. Most are starters that are converted at some point, often at the AAA and ML level. On the current roster that's true of Duran, Jax, and Stewart. Thielbar was a mediocre SP who was pretty much out of baseball when he got a second chance and has thrived. Alcala and the very interesting Funderburk are former starters. Topa has a nice track record at the ML level as does Okert. I don't see them as cast offs. And if you look at the history of Twins' pens, there are many other good examples I'm not going to list. But think of former Twin Liam Hendricks. He washed out as a SP, disappeared, and then reimerged as a an excellent closer. You don't find a Hendricks, or a Stewart, until or unless you take fliers on some arms and see what you have. I don't think for a moment that every arms signed by the Twins are going to come through. Some of those fliers are scheduled to be at AAA and aren't even on the 40 man. Jay Jackson is someone who rebuilt his career oversees, came back, and performed well for the Jay's last year in a SSS. If he does well with the Twins, do we care how he got here? What you're looking for...and to be honest every team does this...is hopefully 1 or 2 finds a year. They might be good for 1 season, or multiple seasons. But the more options you have, the better your odds of success.

That changes things a bit for sure. I kind of like. But I rather like Ash's idea of him going to the IL if he's not fully recovered yet. I.E. he is technically recovering from surgery. If velocity isn't back yet, etc, could he be placed on the IL to continue some rehab work, get in to rehab games at AAA, and play the wait and see game and not use the option? Not sure as to how some of the rules in that regard work. But he was really good with KC before the injuries happened. And he's not exactly old. It would be nice to be able to give him more time, if possible, to get right.

I keep thinking the last half of 2021 was when Alcala really hit his stride. But according the the OP, it was 2020. But my memory and a Baseball Reference look up tells me it was the last half of 2021 where he seemed to really figure out his change up and that made all the difference in the world. First half of 2021 was a 4.67 ERA and 8.0K per 9. His second half was a 2.88 ERA and 10.8 K per 9. That was when the change became a real weapon and he looked to be a bullpen fixture for the next few years. And then came 2yrs of injuries. Late last year, it was reported he was throwing in the 97-98mph range again. His winter performance, though SSS, looked really good. So far so good this spring. With other veterans brought in and him still having an option, it's possible he opens at St Paul no matter what. But I don't think that last spot is set in the pen just yet either. Regardless, I think he's going to step forward and grab a spot and never let it go...provided the good health is for real and maintains.

So THINK what you're asking about is HOW the Twins are approaching who plays where? I think we've seen since day one that the FO/Twins want a team that has a lot of positional flexibility whenever possible. That allows for coverage at different spots when someone needs a day off, or someone is injured, and to always put together the best roster and lineup on a daily basis, even as the names change day to day. But when you have Lewis on the club and penciled in to 3B, I think the Twins already know he could slide to SS in a pinch if needed. They could probably toss him out to LF or CF in a pinch and just feel confident he'd be OK, or at least not embarrass himself. But there's no reason to do that when someone else on the team can do those jobs. Meanwhile, the question on someone like Martin and Lee isn't so much about making them any sort of permanent utility player, but it's more about where is their opportunity to play once promoted to the roster. In other words, they might feel Lee is going to play 2B as the primary player there...eventually...and Julien will cover there, and 1B, and DH. But if Lewis or Correa went down for any length of time, Farmer and Castro would probably not be the fill in, it would be Lee. So they see certain guys as "regulars" in the lineup as they are great players. Even though they can play other positions, there isn't always a reason to do so. I mean, Wallner can cover Kepler in RF and Castro or Margot can play LF if they think that's the best lineup. But you certainly could just keep Wallner in LF and place someone else in RF. But when you move around Lee and Martin, it's to see where the best opportunity is for them to be called up, make the club, stick with the club, etc. EVENTUALLY, Lee is probably up and starting at 2B daily, as previously mentioned. That doesn't mean he can't slide to SS to cover for Correa for a day off and Julien play 2B. I think there's a reasonable chance Martin is the "primary" starting LF next season after Kepler is gone and Wallner moves to RF. But that doesn't mean he can't play CF to give Buxton a day off. Not sure how Martin at 2B figures in the future, and maybe it doesn't, unless he just turns out to be an EVERY DAY player, but who plays everywhere, much like Marwin Gonzalez was back in the day. So there's PRIMARY players who can play other spots but don't really need to very often. And then there's kids on the way up who can play different spots so they are going to do so to provide roster flexibility and greater opportunity for promotion and depth coverage UNTIL they establish themselves at a PRIMARY position, as one of those PRIMARY players. Of course, there's always going to be those guys who are good ballplayers, productive players, who just aren't special enough with what they do to challenge those PRIMARY players' production on a daily basis, so they will simply always be a super utility player. Think Castro vs Lewis for instance. So I think it's a layered approach. Does that make sense?

First game to watch and didn't care it was ST. It was just nice to see any version of Twins baseball! A few personal observations: 1] Varland didn't destroy anything, but looked solid. I think he could have gone out for the 4th easily, but they obviously wanted to follow a plan. I saw his new 2 seamer really BITE few times against RH bats that lead to 3 outs. I want to say one was a K out, but memory is failing me right now. He was sitting consistently at 94-96 on his FB. His only real mistake was over reacting to a slow nubber down the 1B line that would probably have rolled foul. 2] Helman's bat hasn't come around yet, which I find disappointing, but he looked really good at 2B when he went in for Juien early after a pitch to the hand. Julien was flexing his hand after being hit, so hopefully he's OK. 3] Martin made a tough circus catch early in the game in LF due to a bright sky and strange winds. He also snagged a deep fly to left center that wasn't easy. And while the camera work in the game was horrible and no replay was seen, he had a great hustle play where he grabbed an OF grounder and fired a throw to 2B to nail the runner trying for 2B. Offensively, he was screwed by an umpire team that seemed to believe anything close to a swing was a strike. But he also stroked a nice double to LF. 4] Larnach hit a HR to RF that had the distance, but was almost blown back in to fair territory. What's interesting is the pitch coming in at 85mph. Not sure if it was a change or slider, but he hit it solid. Another FB resulted in a solid single. 5] Only 1 game, but Staumont was wild as hell. I think he topped out around 93. After a mound visit, he settled down and got out of the inning and looked better. But I'm wondering if his last option might still e used to let him get his velocity and stuff to get right at AAA. But again, it's ST and we still have a couple weeks. 6] I can see how affective Okert might be. His "almost" sidearm delivery is crazy! It's gotta be really hard to pick up the ball coming out of his hand. He looked good and I believe he K'd 3. But he did allow a couple hits. But unless he throws something straight in the zone, he's pretty nasty. 7] Sands disappointed me facing the leftovers from Pittsburgh. To be fair, there was a wild pitch that a better catcher MIGHT have snagged. But he just didn't look like the OK, SOLID BP option that I think/hope he might be. Again, ONE ST GAME, for what it's worth.

Sympathy and blessings for Ryan and his wife and both families. I can't even imagine a greater pain to have to work through. Wish there was some way they could all know Twins Nation grieves with them.

I've had the same plantar issue and it's debilitating. For him to do what he did do is almost crazy. Since he felt better late in the season and says it's gone now, I take him at his word. I am not worried about him AT ALL. I expect his usual great defense, though a little better than 2023 with two good feet. I think his offense will fall right back in line with his normal career type productions. Since defense in general has been brought up, I liked the obvious improvement Julien showed and I expect that to continue. Not often discussed is Wallner looked better as the season went along as well. While I have serious issues with a 38yo Santana potentially being in the lineup, one decent rebound season after 3 poor ones, and not exactly great against RHP, I don't doubt his glove. But AK has flashed the leather better than he did in 2023, and I think the playoff error has skewed opinion on him somewhat. With his wrist seemingly fixed, I'm confidently expecting the best season of his career. And he's got enough ability to round in to a solid 1B. If I'm right, Santana will help, but will only end up splitting 1B, and not be the primary 1B. That would be beneficial for this season and beyond, meaning Kirilloff finally establishing himself.

I'll have to work during most of the game but the MLB app usually let's you re-watch, hoping that's true in this case. I LOVE this idea for the prospects and hope they do more of this in the future. The roster is interesting as it includes AAA to A ball. Speculating other teams will follow suit?

Not going to say he's a finished product yet. Not saying he won't hit some speed bumps. Not saying he doesn't have to continue to work and adapt like anyone. But he's adapted and grown and performed at every single level. The only time in his 4 milb seasons he e er had a OPS below. 800 was 12 games in 2019 where he was at .794. Career milb quad slash: .274/ .387/ .511/ .898 Now read those numbers again. The .274 AVG is good, even really good for a power hitter, but isn't extraordinary. But look at those other 3 numbers? Drop each 40 points and you STILL have a very good and very dangerous hitter. So unless everything he's done to this point, including his impressive ML time, is some kind of illusion, he should at least be good, if not really good. Defensively he still needs work, but I saw a lot if improvement last year. He's a good athlete who runs well once he gets going. His issues have usually been, to my eye, bad reads and bad routes. Continued experience and work can make those things better. He doesn't have to be Kepler good in RF...his future spot...just solid. That arm of his is a weapon and will offset some of his limitations.

How can Jax improve for this season? How about a horseshoe in his locker? Or a rabbit's foot in his back pocket? But seriously, after a wild first weeks he was good to dominate the rest of the season except for about a week in August. Those first few weeks he had every borderline call go against him, bloop hits, some defensive displays, weird bounces, and what have you. He's not a closer, but he's really good.

WTH is that he's throwing? Ball looks Iike it's on a yo-yo string!

I actually have a ton of faith in Wallner going forward, though I expect some speed bumps along the way. Here's what I know and believe: 1] He's a much better athlete than some believe. He's actually pretty fast, even though it might take a step or two to get going. 2] Despite any defensive metric thrown out, I watched him play a ton in LF and he looked much better to me than he did in 2022. His arm is a defensive weapon. His best position is probably RF in the future where he has to cover less ground. At least in Target Field, where he would play 50% of the time. It's not about ability with him, it's about getting better with eye tracking ability. That comes with work and experience. 3] MLB is obviously different than milb, but EVERY SINGLE YEAR of his milb career he adapted and improved. Even in a relatively SSS he's done that so far. I wish I could remember the game better, but there was a game late in the season where he was sitting 1-2 or 0-2 and the pitch was slightly outside and slower...can't remember change or breaking ball...but you could SEE him hesitate for a moment and put the barrel on the ball and drive it for a HR. That showed me right there that he's got a decent eye and the ability to adjust. Again, I expect some speed bumps in 2024. I posted elsewhere that Wallner reminds me of a good, younger Gallo. The young Gallo, like Wallner, had tremendous power. And he could work the count for BB and a good OB% to go along with that power. But the younger Gallo could actually still HIT. Somewhere along the line, Gallo stopped being able to do so. I'm not saying Wallner is Gallo Jr. I hope he's better. And he might be. Let's hope so. What I'm saying is the K's are going to come. But the power and BB should also be there as well. And like he's done at every level so far, it's up to him to make the adjustments. But in 319 PA and 270 AB and a quad slash line of .244/ .361/ .482/ .842 it's not hard to get excited, even with some regression

God Bless Tyler!

Honestly, if I were a rebuilding team going nowhere, I'd be really interested in a package of Larnach and Miranda as long as I had a good arm coming back also, for a solid young SP that I probably couldn't afford in a couple years. Thinking A's-like if they had someone. Larnach playing every day may or may not ever hit the way I want him to, but he might blast 20HR and 30Dbls while hitting. 225 with a semi decent OB%. And might do better. A fully healthy Miranda...and he's looking good so far in ST...is young enough and has enough potential he might be a huge steal coming off injury to be my 1B/DH and still play some 3B. And if the Twins threw in a top 10-15 arm, maybe a lower level sweetener, I might move that young arm with potential that I can't afford 2yrs from now when the rebuild is just taking hold. But who that team might be and who that arm might be is a mystery to me. I'm just saying, hypothetically, I'm not sure you're wrong.

We're going to disagree here some, and that's OK. Your opinions are well thought out. I follow your logic. I think Lewis could jump in to LF tomorrow, or RF for that matter, and be good there immediately. LF has more ground to cover, at least in Target Field, so I'd put him there and let Wallner and his cannon play RF. But Martin, E Rodriguez, Rosario, and Jenkins all might need spots over the next couple of seasons. Personally, I think the 2025 OF will be a bit of a mix and match as I don't see some of those kids ready until 2026. But that doesn't mean the OF will stink. But why put Lewis in LF with what's coming up and "partially" dismantle what might be the best INF in MLB? IDK If Lewis is at 3B and Lee is at 2B, or vice versa. But a couple knee surgeries and already getting comfortable at 3B, that's where I put Lewis and keep him there. It's easy to allow mediocre or decent defense at 2B with a big bat there. But why not have BOTH with Lee at 2B? 1B is in flux. If Kirilloff can remain healthy going forward, we've seen what he's capable of with the bat. And a healthy Miranda is a 1B/DH/PH and occasional 3B from the RH side of things when Santana is gone for 2025 and beyond. Although, Severino MIGHT be an even better option! Julien can be a 2B/1B/DH option who is OK with the glove. Castro is SO underrated defensively in the INF! And while one of them might be traded, one of Schobel or Keaschall has a chance to be a really good super utility player, and soon, very possibly 2025. KNOCK ON WOOD, but as long as Buxton doesn't have any additional knee issues going forward, (his previous hip issue seems to be tied to pain and favoring and limping), he's going to be part of the CF equation for the next few years, as well as seeing some time at DH, whether it be 80 games or 120. Wallner is a solid athlete who runs really well once he gets going. I thought he showed much better tracking skills in 2023. Come 2025, he just needs to learn and adjust to RF again, especially considering Target Field is a little odd out there. He covers less ground, has that cannon, and only needs to be average there, but I think he has the potential to be better than that. Again, he's a pretty good athlete. Offensively, I think Wallner is "Gallo like", but I mean that in a good way. Despite rather high K numbers, a young Gallo could also HIT along with his power and good BB skills for a good OB%. Somewhere along the line, Gallo lost all ability to make adjustments and actually HIT. I've already watched enough of Wallner, and followed the adjustments he's made in his milb career, that I believe he will actually HIT. Now, we might only be talking a .240-.250 AVG, with a good OB%, and legit 30 HR power, but I'd take that all day long! The question for 2025 is LF and a viable backup for Buxton. Enter Martin, who just might be the starting LF NEXT season. He covers CF with Castro as a 3rd option. Just how good his offense might ultimately be is open for debate. And I think that's fair even though there are some who believe he's All Star ready if given a chance. He could be at the top of the lineup against LHP, at the bottom to turn the lineup over against RHP, or a FIXTURE at the #1 spot, possibly pushing Julien down to a better RBI spot. Depth is a question mark for the OF in 2025. But again, why disrupt possibly the best INF in MLB as a result? Castro should still be part of the equation. Larnach could still end up as a solid LH bat platoon option. And if you squint just a little, you could see really good 2024 seasons from Helman and Keirsey as reserve/quasi platoon options for depth. And for the NOW, I'm completely being frugal financially and not even considering a trade or cheap FA signing that might help out. Again, 2026 could easily see E Rodriguez, Rosario, and even Jenkins ready. So why move Lewis if you don't need to? There's room in the INF to have the best of all worlds, and still have a solid OF, overall. Of course, we know there is ALWAYS the possibility of trades. And that wrecks all speculation, lol. But I'd rather construct the best INF in all of MLB and for 2025 and piece together the best overall OF I could for 1 year.

I'm very intrigued by Keirsey as well. Keep in mind, while he's been "sent down" since he's not on the 40 man, they can still play in some remaining games. I think his "problem" with a lack of ST play time is he didn't get a lot of AAA time last year and he's just behind so many guys in camp right now, including Larnach and the older, more experienced Helman. I can also see him potentially helping in 2025 as a reserve OF. Margot should be gone and probably Kepler as well. (I'm allowing for a SLIGHT chance Max is re-sign). Wallner in RF, Buxton in CF, Martin in LF, Castro as a super utility player, but then who? Larnach? Helman? Keirsey? I just have a hard time seeing E Rodriguez up with the Twins for 2025, at least to start.

Would love to hear Cuddy in the booth. He's still a favorite of mine. If he didn't have a coaching job right now, I'd love to hear Drew Butera in the booth. I think he'd offer a very unique perspective.

Nothing unexpected here, other than Dobnak not making an appearance and Keirsey only getting in to the Gopher game. I think Isola should be at St Paul. Camargo will be the primary catcher, and O'Keefe will presumably be the top backup. Williams will also be able to catch some when not at 1B or DH. And while Isola is similar to Williams in areas of play, there's room for both of them on the Saints roster and in the lineup, IMO. I think Winkel is probably ready for AAA as well, but you don't need 5 guys who can catch. So he probably begins the season at Wichita and they just wait and see when the right time is to move him up? Jensen has looked really bad so far.

A fascinating discussion. What's really interesting is that...despite some more vague theoretical viewpoints...so much of the back and forth has been about: A} The value and idea of taking a high end RP and very talented arm in Duran and trying him as a SP...and... B} Wondering if a very talented arm with high end potential should be moved to the pen. Not exactly the same place in their careers, but they are entwined in this whole discussion, and I think with good reason. Is a high end SP worth more...not speaking financially per se...than a high end RP? Yes. I don't think anyone can argue that point. The problem with trying Duran in that role is that part of the reason he was moved to the pen was because it was believed he could not only be great there, but he had previous injury concerns and it was thought he was just built for shorter and more frequent appearances. Meanwhile, Canterino and his rebuilt elbow are going to be stretched out...at least initially...as a SP to see if he can now maintain good health going forward as he's got real upside as a mid to top of the rotation starter. There is a TEMPTATION to want to see Duran's great stuff in the rotation to see if he works there. And at the same time, there's a strong TEMPTATION to want to see Canterino and his great stuff in the pen to see how he works there. Again, fascinating. Do I think Duran should be moved to the rotation? My answer is no. I think the Twins would have already discussed it and tried it if they thought he could make the transition. Doesn't make them right! Now, if there was an easy, and ready made replacement for Duran's role in the pen, I might be more inclined to try it, knowing I could move him back to the pen, a role he's already proven he can do well. Do I think Canterino should be moved to the pen? Not at this time. Even though he won't be debuting as a SP until age 26-27yo instead of say 24-25yo, I'd still take those age 26-27 years to 32-33 as a high quality starter rather than being a reliever. I also know I have potential stud reliever in my back pocket if he has struggles or any further health issues in the rotation. I'm not opposed to trying the Duran move if the FO, the Twins coaches and trainers all believe he could make the move physically by holding up health wise, as well as being able to maintain some sense of his velocity on a great IP basis. But I'd sure like to have someone else to replace him so I'm not weakening a strength on my team that already exists for a potentially failed experiment to strengthen a different spot. I'd like to think the Twins and all involved are smarter than I am. LOL I'd like to think they've already discussed the temptation to see Duran in the rotation but have enough knowledge and experience to foresee him breaking down and it not working. Otherwise, they would be pretty limited in scope of thought.

It feels a bit awkward to debate the future of someone like Headrick when you are reminded of how little he's really pitched, but how far he's come in such a short time. I mean, drafted in 2019 and got 3.2 IP once he signed and didn't throw again in competition until 2021. In 2022 he pitched less than half a season at AA before being added to the 40 man. And then he jumped to the Twins after only a couple of weeks of AAA introduction with his first appearance coming April 19th. So we can have the old debate again about age vs experience. 26 isn't exactly old, and he's really only got 3yrs of experience coming in to the 2024 season. I remember liking a lot of what I saw in ST last season. He looked like he belonged. His first 4 appearances for the Twins in 2023...covering some time in April and June... provided 10.2 IP and 14K's and a solid ERA. Then he had a horrible game against Boston where he got nailed for 5 runs in a single inning. His remaining 9 appearances were a mixed bag of usually 1 or 2 IP and a couple good appearances, and a couple bad appearances. Overall, he was uneven to be sure. But he hits per, as a rookie, weren't awful. And the K% of 10.5 is quite good. His peripherals at St Paul weren't bad at all, except for the HR numbers. Without that true 3rd offering, I still see him in the bullpen. And he seems to have the stuff to do well there given time to adjust. He and Funderburk and Moran...when healthy again...could all be important pieces of future pens from the left side, and there's nothing wrong with that. But I also believe you don't take someone out of the rotation too soon. And after not even a half season of AA ball he was in the majors and AAA and bouncing back and forth at different times during the year. He definitely deserves an opportunity to work on that 3rd pitch and stay in the rotation for now to see what his ceiling there might be. And he's going to be up again at some point in various roles to help the Twins this year almost assuredly. But there's some really good arms coming up right behind him that might move him to the pen full time by 2025 if he doesn't take a fairly significant step forward in 2024.

Festa has been a heck of a surprise. While he still has to prove he's as good as hoped, he'll get his initial chance to do so sometime this year I think. The stuff plays. The question is maintaining all of his stuff for 5-6 IP. Ohl's velocity has reportedly climbed in to the mid 90's consistently. With some good secondary offerings and great control, I think he's a fast riser. He probably does start the season at AA due to a numbers crunch if nothing else. But I don't think he'll remain there lone. Winkel and Cardenas keep flying under the radar as prospects mainly because while they've made steady improvement and a steady climb in the system, neither has any special hit or power tools. But if you go check out their numbers, you can see a couple guys who can swing the bat a little, make some contact, don't K a ton, etc. These 4 can still make the 2021 draft payoff for the Twins in a direct manner.

I have to confess I really don't know Jeff Brigham. So naturally I went and looked him up and went through his Baseball Reference page. Like any arm the Twins bring in, I always hope we uncover something good to help the club. But even a glance at his 5 seasons and 117 IP and high BB totals and high ERA and RIP tells me this is not someone to be counting on. But I wish him all the best!

Not to put the cart before the horse here, but as constructed today, no Lee yet and probably no Miranda to open the season, if Kirilloff is healthy for all or most all of the season and just performs as expected, as he showed in 2023, is this maybe the best overall INF in the MLB? Lewis, Correa, Julien, AK, Famer, (Castro), and maybe Santana...if he can hold off father time for a repeat of last season. Me likey!

Just a footnote, I think Keaschall should be included as a prospect option at 3B as well.

I think this is an awesome topic! Well worth discussing! But it's also going to be diversive simply due to the nature of both past and present, as well as history. Before digging in too deep, how many Blyleven and Gooden comps on the pitching side and Griffey and Harper comps on the player side can we just agree are just wonder kinds and generational talents? And there are others, I recognize that. But we are talking about aberrations, aren't we? I do agree that AGE is a different discussion vs ML experience, as well as production. Let's examine someone like Trout vs Nelson Cruz, just for example sake. Trout is an amazing talent still on a HOF career despite some injuries and playing for a bad team. Cruz is a borderline HOF talent who didn't hit his stride until he was about 28yo. But are we going to base age on a HOF type of career...OR...do we base age on production and potential? I've seen a lot of SP have solid careers before reaching an ACE level, or close to it, when they hit age 29-30. And some got big contracts. Some continued, some didn't. Verlander and Scherzer are almost aberrations when you look closely. Royce Lewis and Correa are both part of that "generational" types of talent. I'm NOT saying HOF. I'm just talking about talent and production and potential. But let's take a step back for a moment. Why do we care about age? If Ryan and Ober take a step forward and become better with experience in their late 20's to become rotational stalwarts do we care how old they are? If Julien and Wallner and Lewis, and maybe Kirilloff are ready to advance the Twins, doess it matter they are all around 24-27 yo? That's still young for me. IF Canterino is FINALLY ready at 26 yo to destroy AAA and help the Twins in 2024 and potentially be part of the 2025 rotation, does it matter if he's 27yo at that point? I just don't know that age makes a difference. PRODUCTION makes a difference.