DocBauer

Between the 5th spot, filling in for Pineda, double headers, rest periods and hopefully LIMITED IR stints, I am hoping that by this time next year we feel we legitimately have TWO of these talented young guys penciled in to the 2021 rotation.

Very excited and pleased to have him back! To me, he maybe as important as Odorizzi being back. And yes, I mean that. He has had a nice, solid career with some outstanding runs, including going to an All Star game, FWIW, but injuries have curtailed his career somewhat. Healthy, he has some solid stuff and quality results. We saw that in 2019. He is at that perfect time of age and experience, with good stuff, that his next couple of seasons could be the best part of his career. The same might be said of Odorizzi, for that matter. I thought I had heard somewhere that with his knee fully sound, something that wasn't the case until January sometime last year, that he was getting in some good off season work. I hope that is true. In no way do I expect him to be Sveldt Mike next season, but just a little lighter, just a little better shape, could go a long way.

The merits of who/what Bumgarner is NOW and what he MAY BE have been debated. And to be honest, I am torn. There just as many positives in regard to numbers and results as positives. Big game, postseason experience tends to tip the scales his direction for me, along with general belief you can count in him for 30 GS and 180-200 IP. I have no illusions he is a #1 SP any longer. I believe he is as good as, and probably better than Odorizzi now, and for the next couple of years. (NOT a shot of Oddo by any means!) I firmly believe, if healthy and playing for a quality team, he will be an over priced but solid #3 type option for a couple more years. Contract $ or not, these are valuable and important factors to consider. I get trying to get the best deal you can. But if he really doesn't feel like he wants to be here, and will only be "happy" doing so with a 6yr deal for over $20M, I find myself souring very quickly. It's one thing to over pay and another to just get nuts. Ryu is very good when available. His contract would be shorter and much easier to swallow. My hope would be Johnson and Baldelli could nurture him much like they did with the rest of the staff in 2019 to make him available for 28 GS. I'm leaning his way now. I could buy in on Keuchel if it's a 3yr deal. I understand arguments about being an innings eater and control pitcher and what happens if that control suddenly slips. I understand the Twins infield isn't airtight defensively. My counters would be he certainly hasn't lost control yet and IMO, our defense isn't really all that bad, and has the potential to definitely get better in 2020 from normal progression that I expect from Sano, Polanco and Arraez.

Of the 3 options, I vote for #1. That being said, I'd like to replace Bailey with about 3 or 4 others I think. Just don't know he's the best cheap/bounce back option. How about Shaw at 1B and keep Sano at 3B? Greater continuity, a good 1B, and Shaw can still bring value by playin 3 positions if/when Raley/Rooker/Kirilloff are ready to take over 1B.

Just some overall thoughts on the topic at hand. I want the Twins to move the needle. They are very good, but there is room to get better. I think you would clearly find the Twins themselves feeling the same way. Now, in addition to just getting better, there really is one primary, initial goal; reaching the post season. You can't win squat unless you get their first. Period. I would love the Twins to acquire a true ACE pitcher. Not going to argue the value of the 2 FA available or the viability to actually join the Twins, other than to state the obvious that there never really are too many of these guys around. And there sure isn't anyone out there, to my knowledge, with a FOR SALE sign in the window offering up said ACE type pitcher. But the team can, should, will improve themselves via FA or trade on the mound. I don't have any illusions that Bumgarner will suddenly return to his previous form. However, a new staff and new opportunity may indeed see some sort of up tick. But if he could join Berrios, Odorizzi and Pineda creating a quality and deep rotation of #2-3's, I would be very happy with that. Perhaps Bumgarner is not that guy. Perhaps it's someone they need to trade for. I think it's a bit misguided to go shopping and ordering up an All Star #1 ACE SP. It just doesn't work that way. But you can still get deeper, stronger and better. I just hope they pick the right guy, whoever he may be.

FWIW, on the last Gleeman and the Geek, Aaron stated he had heard rumors that the Twins may be higher on Ryu than Bumgarner. He was clear there was nothing definitive however. Just thought I'd toss it out there.

Would I be upset if we signed Ryu? No. The guy can pitch. And maybe Wes and Rocco can nurture him for 180IP per season to make it work. But if we were going to take a shot, I'd rather bet on the bionic arm of Bumgarner. His injuries were a motocross accident and a freak injury where a ball hit his hand, IIRC. Despite all his IP, I would still feel better about him, his experience and bulldog mentality vs a guy 3yrs older who can't stay on the mound. Bumgarner...and this is what scares me...is just ready for TJ or a rotator cuff or labrum problem based on all his IP. But what I love about him is he just may indeed have a bionic arm. Maybe he is a LH version of Jack Morris. Laugh if you will. But think about Verlander with Detroit. He looked almost cooked. Then he rebounded and was traded and found a second life. Bumgarner doesn't have, and probably never had, Verlander's velocity. But pitching isn't always about pure velocity. New team, fresh experience, new coaching, I would bet more on him and his arm and experience and attitude over Ryu in a heartbeat. I know we could get burned. But isn't that true for any 30yr old pitcher with miles on his arm? But I am willing to take the chance on MadBum and what he has left if the cost doesn't get crazy.

I absolutely believe Thorpe could thrive in the bullpen. And I get going north with your best arms. (You can always move a young arm back to the rotation later, we've seen it done). But I would guess the Twins really want him to concentrate on starting right now, even if that means Rochester to begin the year. Graterol is a quandary because he really should be starting, and I think we, the FO, and the mailman all know and believe that. And I don't think it's about service time. It's about a decent 3rd pitch and stretching him further out and just gaining experience. I have no clue how they will do it. But between the ML and milb level, I see some slips, and following some designated starters to get the best of him in 2020 without over using him.

We will need at least one of them to cover the first 30-40 days, as I just mentioned. I have a pretty strong feeling we will sign a flier after we acquire that last important arm, FA or trade. How good that bounceback, flier arm does will shape the opportunity for the kids. And don't get me wrong, those young guys need opportunity! How else will they be able to become potential fixtures? But wouldn't it be something if they were depth for the rotation and pen and FORCED their way in to a spot?

Actually, I have always believed strongly both would be back. It made too much sense not to happen. The fit is good. The $ were there. They like being here and the FO, staff and team wanted them here. In fact, Oddo has even stated he is open to an extension vs the 1yr. To me the question has always been FA or trade, where does that other really good arm come from to join them and Berrios? I am 100% on board for a flier FA/rebound option and have always expected one, depending on the market and how it unfolds. But I've also always felt the FO might just keep the 5th spot open for all the young guys. Of course, the caveat to that is also needing them to help cover the first 30-40 days without Pineda. I don't know who it will be, but I'm expecting a $5-6M 1yr deal for someone after we acquire that one top arm.

He can fully participate in ST. I remain unsure if he can hang around Ft Myers during the suspension or has to workout on his own. He then gets, I believe, 15 days of milb before he has to be activated. All things go, he should be ready early to mid May.

Tremendous post, Ted! Really enjoyed it! Look, I'm bummed on losing out on Wheeler and the hoped for potential he would climb the ladder. But until the smoke clears and the dust settles, we simply don't know what the FO is going to do yet. What if we lose out on Bumgarner and Ryu, etc, but the FO pulls off a trade for Gray? What if the grab Archer away from the re-building Pirates for a fair package and back in the AL and working with Johnson he pitches as well as he ever has? Will anyone care then we lost out on the big name FA? Without making any huge moves, and even with collapses by Perez and Gibson, we had some of the best SP in the league last year by what we DID HAVE. Despite not making the moves we all cried out for in the bullpen, they cobbled together a workable group that changed out and got better the second half of the year. (Even with the Dyson move completely blowing up). With little exception, I can't find fault with most any move this FO has made the past 2 years. (Verdict is out on a couple still). They have been aggressive at times, inventive at times, swapped out temporary assets for at least fliers, eaten $ on occasion, and basically run the entire organization from top to bottom very differently than it was in the past. Between draft selections, international FA and trades, they have assembled one of the best and deepest farm systems in MLB. They talk about building an organization and maintaining stability. This means having prospects to promote...which they have done far more aggressively...but also having prospects to move. And I think you will start to see some of that happening in the not to distant future. As someone else pointed out, there are a handful of teams in MLB that can actually afford to have $20-30+M in dead money on the books. Most teams, including the Twins, can't afford to do that. So at some point, Darvish last year, Wheeler this year, the FO just decides a certain number is enough. From what we have heard about Wheeler...and we don't know if the Twins were willing to bump their offer or not...he turned down the Dirty Sox for the Phillies despite a reportedly higher offer. It happens. I get WANT and EXCITEMENT, but there are a lot of ways to build a good ballclub that can compete. And I say again, when the dust settles and smoke clears, and this team is in the thick of things again, will it matter how they accomplished it? Or just that they have?

I really liked Vogt if not Castro, as I stated in the other thread, but this is a fine move for 1 yr. Solid, experienced, some power, and just a decent compliment to Garver.

Great post! Someone needs to re-post stats and standings from 2019. Seems a lot of people have forgotten how highly ranked/successful our rotation was last year even with the fade of Perez and Gibson.

There are 2 answers available. It just depends If you believe the budget target for 2020 is $130M or $140M. So they entered FA with $61-$71M to spend. Personally, I believe they will go up to $140M if the right moves make sense. J mean, they were at $130M coming off the unexpected wild card 2yrs ago. Why wouldn't they be willing to bump to $140 coming off 101 wins and a division championship. Just my opinion. So $43M available after Odorizzi and Pineda.

Super happy about this and glad it was for 2yrs and not one. A little less than I expected though. Thought they might have to go $12M

Exactly. Why I like the idea of Shaw more and more for versatility sake. Within the next season or so, how about Lewis at 3B, but he can also play CF/SS/2B. Just because Kirilloff might fit in as the primary 1B doesn't mean he can't continue to play OF. Now, Sano becomes the primary DH but can also still play 1B/3B. (Also part of the reason I'm kinda excited about Raley)

This! 2016-18 were solid to great years. And with his versatility at 2B/3B he can fill in here and there if/when needed, especially if/when Kirilloff/Raley/Rooker are ready.

What about Taijuan Walker?

If the velocity is indeed there and there are no health concerns, why wouldn't you add him? Career numbers show a quality 7th/8th inning guy. I'd rather see 2 for $12 but could do 2 for $14. I'm also starting to have second thoughts about Perez. I wonder about a 1yr at $4-5M and convince him it's time to re-invent himself as a RP.

Keuchel and Pineda, unless you like Keuchel better than Pineda. After that, my preference is to leave the 5th spot open for the young guys to fight for and roll through as necessary, at some point, they have to be given opportunity. However, depth and competition are good things to have. Opportunity can knock at diffedent times and come in different variations. And sometimes bounce back fliers turn out quite well. Not particularly a fan of Gausmanm but not a hater either. If he, or one of the other similar options available, can be brought in for only $4-5M, preferably with some sort of club option in case you guess right, I don't have a problem with it and can definitely get on board.

I was leaning Wheeler due to pure velocity, but have been torn between he and Bumgarner. I like having that LH in the rotation and you can't beat his postseason experience. Now that Wheeler is off the board, time to get moving and get him signed. Then grab Pineda. I'm not a fan of Ryu despite his numbers. He just can't be relied on and a soft throwing LH to the AL bothers me. I honestly think if you want to sign a second LH you go for Keuchel. He's been a stalwart and knows the AL already.

It's also not out of question that a pair of soon to be 26yo left side infielders could continue to develop and improve. Fact: Sano re-dedicated himself to slim down and get in better shape and improve his game. Fact: Sano had a weird, crazy injury that supplanted his ST and full readiness. Fact: In the Twins own history of 3B, forgetting anyone else, 2 of their best 3B, Gaetti and Koskie, started out as poor or questionable defensively. Fact: Polanco is a good athlete who is still growing in to the position not only because he is relatively young, but was also jerked around by the previous FO before Molitor just placed him at SS on a daily basis. Fact: Other than tweaking and learning a few things about positioning and just watching the darn ball in to your glove at times, Polanco's biggest issue was throwing. He found a new motion that seemed to make a difference and should continue to make a difference. Facf: Arraez is an instinctual ballplayer and was a rookie who should only get better with experience. We need a 1B, whoever it may be. Sano moves there..and I think he can be OK to good with time...only because there is a better option for 3B. Unless we blow things up at 3B with a major trade or FA target, 1B needs to be addressed.

Humor aside, affiliations change. Every holiday the past few seasons I look to buy a cap for myself and my father for a team we don't have yet. Hell, we have Rockcats and Lookout caps we display or wear at times. I promise you I will NOT be ordering any items from this ridiculous change.

I really wanted to write this a couple of days ago when Nash first shared his wonderful piece because it resonated with me, and because honestly, I felt it I waited too long, the article would just slide away amongst others. But work, life, trips to the hospital for my youngest son...things just got in the way. But I have to share. For those who have read some of my words before, indulge me. I was born a Twins fan. I was born and raised in South Dakota by a sports fan father who adopted the Twins as his team. (And the Vikings but that is a whole different and pained story, lol). My father helped coach a little league team in Brookings SD named the Tigers when I was about 4-5yrs old. His memory is better than mine, obviously, on the time frame. At the end of the season, we traveled to watch a double header at old Met Stadium between the Tigers and Twins. My 54yo brain has flashbacks, but remembers little from that day. But it doesn't matter as the Twins were ingrained to me virtually from birth. 57.0, Yankton SD was, and remains to some degree, a godsend to me. From car radio to transistor radio, I followed the Twins with my dad, and learned the game from him, listening to Herb call the games for the likes of Carew, Koosman, Goltz, Smalley, Wyneger and a plethora of players and games over nearly 50yrs. When visiting my grandparents farm, I used to help out with the evening milking, doing what I could feeding cows and calves, while monitoring the radio and calling out the play by play taking place. In my youth, WAY before the internet, I watched games on my grandma's cable TV. I grabbed ever issue, and past issues she saved for me, of the Tribune to read about the Twins. I read Baseball Digest, the Sporting News, and any rag I could get my hands on to hear about my team and milb prospects. I would sit in my car to listen through static to hear west coast games. I listened on my car radio the first game Puckett ever played. I watched the Twins beat the Tigers in '87 to reach the WS. And I am not a bit ashamed to admit I cried when they won that year. My only regret is my dad and I couldn't have watched it together. From approximately 1970 on I have seen 2 WS championships, great seasons and performances, different ownerships, tons of celebrations and tons of heartache. I've watched this team win 100 games and lose 100 games. I've been through it all. And while there a couple of TD fans/posters who have seen even more than me, I have been steadfast in my "fanaticism ". I admit there are times where it was just so bad I didn't listen, or watch, or check the before, but I have always been there. Still am. As is my beloved father. Once a week we huddle to talk Vikings and Huskers, but we always end up talking Twins at some point. No matter what, good and bad, the Twins are just in my blood.