LA Vikes Fan

Amazing! I just heard the news on ESPN SportsCenter here in LA. I’m shocked! Now get a starting pitcher and this is starting to make sense.

Saw that. Guess trading for starter must be in the works?

Detroit is singing Michael Pineda. Another possible starter bites the dust. I hope this trade with the As thing is real...

Chi Chi Gonzalez! Things are so bad that we're signing old golfers now? Oh, wait, that was Chi Chi Rodriguez. Never mind... Still, he might help us more...

By the way, I just saw that Ryan Tepera signed with the Angels. Another possible relief pitcher comes off the board. Do we have a single thread that deals with free agent signings and trades outside of the specific one for Trevor Story? Just curious. Would love to see people's comments on these kind of comings and goings.

We wouldn't actually start the season with Garlick, Rooker or Cave in LF, would we? Please, Dear God no. Cave and Rooker belong in AAA, and Garlick is at most a RH part of an outfield platoon and only then if there is a decision to play a younger, breaking in LH hitter in LF that we want to take some pressure off of. I pity the team that has any of those 3 guys on the opening day roster with an intent to play them any significant amount of time. Kirilloff is in leftfield. Sano is the 1st baseman. If you want to pair Miranda with those 2 in kind of an overall platoon where he is to play a couple days a week to break in, okay, but not the other 3 chumps. The DH spot is a rotation that includes off days for people plus Gary Sanchez. Any of those 3 getting any significant playing time would be enough for me to lose a little hair I have left.

I hate to ask this but I'm a work and can't watch. Does Gordon look like anything resembling an MLB shortstop? I'm afraid of the answer . . .

Guys, I think we're in the same place with these deals that we were Monday. If the trade of Donaldson, IKF and Rotvedt freed up payroll that we spend on Story, someone like him, or helps us extend a Montas type to a 3-4 year deal after trading for him, the Yankees trade makes sense. If we wind up with what we have now, the trade doesn't make much sense other than lowering payroll. Ben Rotvedt is a glove first 2nd or 3rd string catcher IF he improves his hitting. Right now, he's AAA depth and unlikely to be more unless he hits better. He's not the issue. The issue is we need another Starting Pitcher and a SS. It's starting to look more and more like those 2 are tied together in the sense that Story may not want to come to the Twins unless and until they sign another quality Starting Pitcher because he's tired of being on a losing team. I don't know that he has a lot of other options but it does strike me that Houston has an opening at shortstop and I suspect others might have an interest. Whether or not trading our prior 3rd string catcher, aging 3rd baseman on the downside of his career but still a quality player for the roughly 100 games year he can actually play, and a decent but not great shortstop we had for a day in return for a decent but not great 3rd baseman and a backup catcher/DH who hits home runs but strikes out too much was a good idea depends on the next step. I went to the garage and found my torch and pitchfork but I haven't yet looked for or found the lighter. In another few days I'll find the lighter. In another week to 10 days I'm ready to storm the castle but not until then.

Interesting idea. I would actually be fine with the Twins winding up with DeJong at SS if we can't get Story.

I just saw Villar signed with the Cubs. I don't see any other stopgap type SS out there any more, just Story and Correa. I hope we get Story. If not, we really will find our if Gordon or Urshela can actually man the position.

Bryant's contract may just have pushed Story to a higher number that the Twins won't pay. I am now less optimistic that he will sign with us. Also, the addition of KC and the NYY (among others) into the mix for Montas and Maneaa coupled with the reds saying Castillo and Mahle won't be traded makes me less optimistic that we will trade for another starter. Michael Pineda may be our best shot and we'll have competition there. We may be looking at the Twins roster going forward this year. Ugh. By the way, what is up with Colorado? They won't re-sign Story and give Bryant a $182m contract. Huh?

I'm in. I also subscribe to the Athletic and read their comments after the articles. Not only are the article here just as good as they are there, the quality of the commentary here is much better than the noise in the comments there. I learn a lot and it's a fun group of guys to talk Twins with - knowledgeable, friendly, and informed. Kind of like talking to your brother or to a good friend over a beer or, in my case, a scotch. This is a great site and deserves our support. By the way, I see the subscription comes with a ticket to the Winter Meltdown. I live in LA now, and no offense guys, the chance of me coming back to Minnesota in mid-winter are somewhere close to the chances of me dating a supermodel. Hey, it could happen. If you want to, give the ticket to somebody fun and expand the group.

I agree with farmerguychris completely. Trevor Story is a good player, maybe a great player but at least a good player. He plays a position of need. We now have a chance to get him by freeing up payroll from paying Donaldson on the downside of his career. Analysis over. Try to sign Trevor Story and even be willing to overpay a little necessary to get him. You now have a shortstop for the next four or five years. Lewis and Martin (I had to avoid saying Martin and Lewis to avoid thoughts of Laugh In, or do I have that backwards? )? Both are interesting players, and great prospects. They are not in the way of signing Trevor Story and should not really be a consideration. If they make it as shortstops, great trade chips or stars with Story being traded. If they movedto another position and excel? Same analysis, different names. The idea that signing Story to a multiyear contract is in any way impacted by their timelines is simply poor roster management. Adding real talent to the roster at a position of need is almost never a bad idea. Story is real talent. We can find a place for Lewis and Martin when and if the time comes.

I just saw that the Reds (!) traded Amir Garrett for Mike Minor. The trade makes no sense from the Reds standpoint; they let Wade Miley go on waivers and he's better than Mike Minor with almost exactly the same salary for the same term. Amir Garrett actually has some value so why treating him for a guy is worse than someone you could have simply kept? I have this sneaking suspicion: this is the front and of a trade with the Twins. We are going to get my Minor and somebody else, hopefully a starter but may be a reliever, in return for prospects. The Royals would never trade Minor to us directly since were in the same division. Not sure if I like this idea or not, but I think this may be in the cards.

I just saw that the Reds (!) traded Amir Garrett for Mike Minor. The trade makes no sense from the Reds standpoint; they let Wade Miley go on waivers and he's better than Mike Minor with almost exactly the same salary for the same term. Amir Garrett actually has some value so why treating him for a guy is worse than someone you could have simply kept? I have this sneaking suspicion: this is the front and of a trade with the Twins. We are going to get my Minor and somebody else, hopefully a starter but may be a reliever, in return for prospects. The Royals would never trade Minor to us directly since were in the same division. Not sure if I like this song or not, but I think this may be in the cards.

I agree and would add in Castillo or Mahle from the Reds to the list of pitchers who could make this all come together. Sign Story, trade for one more starter, trade for Lou Trevino from the As, and find one more RP. We fill LF internally and now you have a team.

Here's a question: is a starting infield of Arraez/Miranda at 3B and Urshela/Gordon at SS better or worse than last year's combination of Donaldson and Simmons? Before you react, add in the factor of durability and games played. When you do that, I don't think it's that big a drop off if even much of a drop-off at all. The SS defense suffers but the 3B defense is probably just as good or better since Donaldson had no range and that certainly wasn't getting any better this year. Add in the fact that these guys are likely to be available to play most of the year whereas we would be lucky to get 90 games a year at 3B out of Donaldson. The offense gets much better it shortstop while there may be a small downgrade at 3rd base but again, not huge given that you're only getting 80-120 games out of Donaldson even if he DHs a good part of the year. On balance, I do think it's a small downgrade because of the shortstop defense but I don't think it's a very big downgrade. The point of this is not that the Twins should pocket the $25 million a year they just saved by moving Donaldson's contract. My thinking is we should spend that money but I don't think we have to spend it all on a shortstop like Story. I think it would be just as smart to trade for a guy like Sean Maneaa, Frankie Montas, Tyler Mahle, or Luis Castillo, and then use the money to extend their contracts out at 15 – $20 million a year for 2 or 3 years. As far as SS goes, Jonathan Villar is still available for that stopgap role. Another way to look at this would be to basically trade Donaldson's contract for a combination of Villar to play short, Pineda to pitch in the rotation, and a relief pitcher like Archie Bradley or Mychal Givens. Now maybe we have gotten better even if we don't sign Trevor Story. Add in a trade of prospects for Amneaa, Montas, Mahle or Castillo and I do think it's a viable strategy. My thinking is there a lot of ways still to go make the team better for this year and beyond including signing Trevor Story or something like outlined above. If we do nothing more? Then I think it's time to get out the pitchforks and torches and storm the castle. I do have my torch handy, but I'm not going to light it for at least 2 or 3 weeks to see how the rest of this puzzle plays out.

I think this is a good take. When you sign these aging stars in their 30s you wind up paying for the back end years where they won't be worth the money (see Pujols, Albert). We unloaded those years on the Yankees. I do agree with those who say that this makes the FO look bad for signing Donaldson 2 years ago when they clearly overestimated whether the twins had an open "window" to compete. Having said that, at least they were smart enough to cut bait when the time came.

You got that right, Mike. Story may not have another good place to go.

While I’m not sure I like this trade, or even that I completely understand what’s going on, I don’t think I agree with some of the comments here about where we gotten weaker and where we’ve gotten stronger. Can you put everything you’ve done together, I think we are weaker at catcher, stronger in the rotation with the addition of Sonny Gray, a little bit weaker but not much at third base since Urshela Is a better fielder than Donaldson, similar but not quite as good a hitter, and substantially less injury prone. We also now have some payroll flexibility to either sign someone like Trevor Story or trade for a pitcher that either has a good size salary or can be extended. As we sit, we definitely have a black hole at shortstop so one has to assume we’re going to do something to resolve that. Truly bizarre. I think we’re basically halfway through the novel and still in suspense because we can’t figure out the ending. All I can say is I certainly hope we don’t end up here.

I agree the trading for Bassitt and then extending him would have been a good move, something I’ve advocated for on this board previously. Still, I do think we need to give the FO a little more time on getting SP for this year. It’s starting to look to me more and more like the plan is another veteran placeholder or two, like Cueto and/or Pineda, and use this year to shuffle through the 5 to 7 potential MLB SP guys we have in the minors plus Dobnak to see if they can find a couple more starters for next year or the year after. Bassitt’s Contract doesn’t work the same way and he’s good enough that it’s going to be hard for the Twins to extend him without paying top dollar for a guy who may be on the decline when the team is actually ready to contend. I’m beginning to think that’s that’s the strategy here, use this year to shuffle through everyone you have in the hopes of creating a contender in 2023 or 2024. The trade of Garver for IKF fits that strategy; it gives Jeffers a chance to play 75% of the time at catcher and gives you two years of a quality shortstop as you try to develop one of your own in return for older catcher who won’t be part of your next contending team due to age. Also, if you can’t develop a shortstop IKF can be that guy for the next five years assuming he can be resigned for a reasonable price which seems likely. He can then be part of your next contending team. Not a strategy that particularly appeals to me because I think that means this team isn’t going to be very good in 2022 and may remain mediocre in 2023. Still, it is a strategy that makes some intellectual sense.

It wouldn’t surprise me if the twins plan now for the rotation is to try to sign Cueto and Pineda, and then start the season with the rotation of those two, Bundy, Ober, and Ryan. The long-term idea might be to use this year to find two or more guys presently in the minors ready to start in the majors, cull the three veterans down to one or two for next year, and have an all “young pitcher“ rotation by 2024. Cueto fits that timeline well. It’s not my first choice but it does fit in with what I think is the actual strategy.

i agree that we need pitching but there's three things wrong with this statement. First, Garver by himself wasn't going to get us established MLB pitching. He could only have been the veteran part of a trade that also saw us give up a real pitching prospect. We aren't going to get real controllable major league pitching for a guy like Garver or even for Garver plus Sano. Real MLB ready pitching is going to cost us a guy like Garver PLUS a Martin, Lewis, Caterino, Winder, etc. Second, we got pitching; a guy that Fangraphs likes and who could be in the bullpen as early as this year or in the rotation/bullpen next year. That's the kind of pitching a 31 year old C who hits well but only plays 80-100 games a year if things are good is worth. Third, we don't have "a bunch of shortstops", we now have ONE SS and its the guy we just traded for. I really like Garver and hate the fact that we traded him. Still, we got a guy who is a real MLB SS for the next 2 years at least, and maybe a decent pitcher to go with him. It seems like a fair trade between a team that wants to compete NOW, the Rangers, and a team that may be a year away, the Twins. I think it's defensible move and may actually be a win-win. I'm not a huge fan of this FO either but this trade isn't the reason to hate them; it's actually a good move.

Hey, we got to have somebody. Don't think it's Polanco. Jose Iglesias, come on down! Actually, part of me wants the Twins to start Martin and Gordon at short and see if one of the can handle the position. Given the state of the rotation, it's not like we going anywhere this year any way, might as well see if one of those two can play there SS. Probably not a good idea, but I am intrigued by the possibility.

Well, the wait is over. The first player the Twins sign post lockout is … Juan Minaya to a minor league deal with an invitation to Spring training. All of you that had Minaya in the pool, report to the table and collect your Winnings!