Nashvilletwin

I actually like this trade if we think Kim is someone we’d like long-term. Highly likely Mahle won’t be here next year. Possible he pitches less than 125 innings this season anyway. SD might just hit the bid on that. Having said that, this FO would never pull the trigger on this trade. They are too invested in their Mahle, Gray, Maeda or bust strategy for ‘23. Too bad.

Throw in Gallo too and offer to keep him on our payroll. Lol

“I resolve in 2023 to stay healthy, get in enough MLB innings, and keep improving to prove that I will 100% no doubt be part of the Minnesota Twins roster breaking camp in 2024”. This is the single overriding resolution for each of the following: Lewis, Lee, Martin, Julien, Wallner, SWR, Varland, Balazovic, and Canterino (and, although they are not “prospects” per se, Miranda, Kiriloff, Larnach, Ober, Winder, and Alcala). Now, just imagine if our FO and coaching staff gave each of them the opportunity to make that resolution a reality and each one of them accomplished it…….

To best capitalise on our emerging core (and for Falvey’s future with the Twins), the starting rotation in ‘24 at a minimum should include: a) Ryan, b) the reupped winner of the Mahle, Maeda, Gray sweepstakes, and c) at least two of Ober, Winder, SWR, Varland, and Balazovic. Best case scenario is that three of the youngsters make it and we end of with four quality starters on minimum contracts and under control. That way, if we somehow screw up the Mahle/Maeda/Gray sweepstakes (either all three aren’t very good or none of them want to stay here), we still have more than enough capital to commit to a strong #2 type in next year’s FA market.

Yes. If that last paragraph came to fruition (btw, I’d add in Wallner and Balazovic) we’d pretty much know exactly what we have in NINE young position players and an additional FOUR young starters. We know what we have in Buxton, Jeffers, Vasquez, Arraez, and Ryan. (Note: Kepler, Gallo, Farmer, Garlick, and most possibly Polanco are not part of the next core). Let’s see what transpires in the Gray, Maeda, and Mahle extension sweepstakes (btw, I have the under on 350 combined innings thrown by those three) and we will have plenty of cash to round out any holes that become apparent next offseason. And yes, this team would be really fun to watch and will likely be the only reason many of us tune in come late June.

Question: what is the biggest difference between the ‘21 Vikes and the ‘22 Vikes? Zimmer gone, KOC in. We want to win more close games? Particularly with our roster that could be very generously described as “average”? Start with playing with excellent fundamentals and “steal” more wins than loses via better in-game management. That begins and ends with Rocco.

Both

Bassitt and Tyler Anderson (3/$39) if we possibly could’ve attracted them (which is not clear). Two veteran #2/3 equivalents both pitching 180 innings (FYI, Ryan had the most IPs for the Twins last year with 147; Gray had 120). Both likely to be better than Mahle and Maeda this year. Both would be solid anchors for the ‘24-25 window approaching - unlike in all probability Gray, Mahle or Maeda. Paired with Ryan and the two winners of the Ober, Winder, SWR, Varland, Balazovic bake-off that’s a very competitive starting staff for less than $40MM. Alas, we wasted our time on CC and signed Joey Gallo instead. Oh well.

I don’t think this totally crazy. Lots of rumours that the other owners are mad because he’s making such a joke of the luxury tax. Plenty of talk among fans and owners that the Correa signing was bad for the league.

Seriously, this looks a lot more like what our 2024 lineup will/should be. By ‘26 half these players will have moved on most likely. But it’s fun to think about. Where is Gordon? I have no idea why we keep selling short our most productive outfielder who’s just hitting his stride. Agree with comments that Julien is primarily at 2B. Doesn’t really matter: our IF would be Lee, Lewis, Julien, Arraez, Miranda and Kiriloff with great positional flexibility (at each position, including DH). Essentially 4-5 of those players will start every game. Our OF could be Buxton, Gordon, Larnach, Wallner and Martin. Add Jeffers and Vasquez (or his replacement) and those are your 13 position players. Again, seriously, why isn’t this our ‘24 lineup, if not our August/September ‘23 lineup? This is what our new window starts to look like. This lineup has a great mix of power, average, speed, fielding, and positional flexibility. It’s also young and cheap - allowing for cash to be spent on pitching and/or select veterans. With the right manager, this team would be very competitive and fun to watch - i.e. a great draw for fans. Just don’t screw it up FO.

A lot of great points in this post! Agree that the transition has been happening and it has had fits (Kiriloff, Larnach and Jeffers) and starts (Arraez, Miranda, and Gordon). Vasquez is a good hedge on Jeffers for the next several years. Just as Farmer is for Lewis this season. The key now is to make sure we use 2023 to see what we have in Lee, Lewis, Julien, Wallner, Martin, Larnach and Kiriloff. That’s seven players Assuming 1) Buxton is in for 100 games/year in CF and some additional DH starts, 2) the three of Arraez, Miranda, and Gordon continue their progression, and 3) Polanco rebounds, we need at least four of those seven to emerge as bonafide big leaguers by the end of the season. All seven could! If we reach that goal of four to seven proving themselves, we will be in a great spot for ‘24-25 at a minimum. Let’s just make sure we give those seven every opportunity to reach that goal. Gallo and Kepler do not help in that assessment. Re the starting staff, with a little foresight we could have started to build a strong staff for ‘24 and ‘25 in this off-season’s FA market. We didn’t. We shall see what is available next season. But we can’t extend Mahle now until we see what he has to offer after last season’s end of year debacle (I’ve got the under). We will essentially be having a bake-off this season between Ober, Winder, Varland, and SWR for at least two starting spots in ‘24. All four could succeed, but I’d take two right now. If we can extend one of Mahle, Maeda and Gray, we’d have four starter spots (Ryan is the fourth) locked up for ‘24 with some help on the farm available (the two losers of the bake-off and Balazovic, et al). A competitive window could be approaching. We need good leadership, coaching and opportunity to maximise the possibilities.

I’m a little torn on Polanco. He could still have a bounce back year and be a solid veteran presence.

No - good point. Just less possibly. And they too are part of the postponement.

What’s the saying - don’t keep p#&@ing on my leg and telling me it’s raining? Sorry, that’s a bit crude and unfair Ted, but I totally have got the under on a Gallo turnaround this year. Again, he’s a dart throw to try to save the CC plus Mahle, Gray and Maeda strategy that blew up in their face. The absolute worst thing that can happen to this franchise is that there is some hope of winning the division come late June and our clueless, delusion FO decides to stay the course with Gallo, Kepler, Polanco, Maeda, Gray, and Mahle and losing all of them for nothing come ‘24. Oh, it could be worse, they could make another trade at the deadline giving up solid prospects for less than a handful of starts from a “fatigued” pitcher. Anything that postpones the investment and evaluation of our new young core is a mistake at this point in time. Gallo is simply one piece of that postponement - almost regardless of his level of play.

Lee should see the bigs sometime this year. But your comment is correct - that is why Farmer stays this year.

Missing Julien and Martin. Both make their debuts this year. Gallo was waste for the strategy that will ultimately be embraced come mid-late June. August Lineup (some IL overlap) IF (6) Lee, Lewis, Julien, Arraez, Miranda, Farmer (need one adult) OF (6) Buxton, Gordon, Wallner, Larnach, Kiriloff, Martin C (2) Vasquez, Jeffers SP (5) Ryan, Ober, Winder, SWR, one of Mahle, Gray, Maeda (Varland and Balazovic will get plenty of starts too) RP (8) Duran, Lopez, Jax, Thielbar, Alcala, Moran, Henriquez, FA to be signed still this off-season (others will see innings too) The last two months of ‘23 may be a dumpster fire, but a necessary one. We make the investment to see who are keepers and who is not. For ‘24-25 only three players off this list are making somewhat serious money (Buxton, one SP, and Arraez). Retool next off-season with 3-4 FAs. Fire Falvey, Levine, and Rocco. BTW, any one but me wish we had signed Bassitt and Anderson to three year deals to bolster our rotation for ‘23-25 instead of goofing off with CC and Gallo? We’d have at least two solid inning eating vets to go with Ryan plus the two winners of the Winder, Ober, Varland, SWR battle. We could even extended our choice of Gray, Mahle and Maeda.

If the FO had recognized their pursuit of CC as the pipe dream it was, they basically could have had Anderson and Bassitt (or close equivalents) on minimum three year deals for the price of CC and Gallo. With ‘23 looking grim, this is how you build for the future. Instead of trying to kick save the Maeda, Mahle, and Gray ‘23 strategy, it would have been smarter to invest in the Bassitt, Anderson plus one (or two) extension(s) of the three ‘24-25 strategy. You start Maeda in the pen in ‘23 and wait for Mahle and Gray to break down to give Ober, Winder, SWR starter innings. At the deadline you move any or all of the three (Gray, Maeda, Mahle) who will not be extended. This not only positioned the rotation for a more open window in ‘24-25, but also would actually have significantly increased the probability of contending in ‘23. This FO is like the woman who backed into the airplane propellor: a disaster.

Ok, we can stop putting the blame for Correa squarely on the shoulders of the FO. But what about an off season that has produced Vasquez (an A in my book), Farmer as the starting SS, and Gallo? Who shoulders the blame for that?

There is absolutely no way I would trade anyone in our organization that has a reasonable chance to contribute to this team over the 2024-2027 time frame for any player who would a) impede the development of any of our top prospects; b) is not demonstrably a step up from what our future can provide; c) is nothing more than a temporary kick save attempt by the FO to resurrect their Mahle, Maeda and Gray strategy, or d) won’t be here for the next window. Guillorme may be a perfectly reasonable utility infielder for a couple years. But a platoon with Farmer will not save this season, and Guillorme is not going to be part of the long-term solution. As such, any acquisition of Guillorme should not compromise our future in any way, even if it is for a “couple of lottery tickets” - lottery tickets that may actually be more valuable to us.

You are absolutely correct. A small/mid-market team can compete if they are well run and do certain things very well. These things include: 1. Developing players through the system and continuing that development once the players make the majors. 2. Play sound fundamental baseball in all aspects - which “steals” a handful of net wins per year. 3. Have a manager and coaching staff that is both tactically above average (again, resulting in a handful of net wins per season) and works well with younger players. 4. When a key trade or FA is required, have a front office that is savvy enough to “win” more often than “loses”. The FO must additionally be able to put together and stick to a cogent long-term strategic plan, while avoiding the dogmatism to make necessary occasional pivots. 5. Have an ownership willing to step up when the opportunity presents itself and has the courage to make the tough, difficult decisions when needed. This is essentially how smaller market teams can create some sort of competitive advantage in a no salary cap environment. Some teams do this better and more consistently than others. How would you rate the Twins organization, particularly recently?

Assuming they even show up, of course. Lol

Rec this. Don’t worry - this strategy will in all likelihood be implemented come early June. The FO will do the best they can to see what the team with Mahle, Gray and Maeda can produce. Fair enough. If, or when, it becomes clear that won’t be successful - along with a healed Lewis and more seasoning for Lee, Julien, Martin, SWR, Varland, etc. - the rebuild toward a new multi year window will begin.

Whom would you move - someone in whom the Mets might realistically have an interest - to effect this trade for this budding utility infielder?

Baseball is broken. This is a horrible signing for the future of the league - particularly if the Mets, or any other of the dwindling number of franchises that can compete in this “arms race”, wins the Pennant or WS. This portends even greater loss of interest in professional baseball outside of a few major franchises. For the current and future fans of most of the MLB’s teams, there is very little reason to commit the time and money over years and years to a futile dream. Better just wait to jump on the bandwagon for that one season, if it ever comes, when lightning strikes and the team truly competes. As I have said in many of my posts, I am a “super fan” watching over 150 Twins games each year. Not this year. I have really no interest in prioritising my summer days and nights to watch our current team in this current MLB environment. My love of the game only goes so far. Assuming I reup for the MLB package this season, maybe I’ll tune in more often later in the season when our prospects show up. This is how this super fan feels. It’s not just the CC signing. It’s the direction of MLB and the direction of the Twins within that dynamic. Imagine how the less committed fans will feel over time. For many franchises, the Twins most certainly included, baseball fandom will become primarily a bandwagon phenomenon.

Didn’t even think about that. Wow, I guess it could be, but I hope not, Baseball does not need that. On the other hand, once a cheater….. Maybe the drs. had a hard time identifying the buzzer implanted below his shoulder. Enough silliness - let’s just hope he’s ok and can continue his career.