TopGunn#22

I believe no one knows FOR SURE what the Buxton situation will eventually play out to be. Therefore, I'm approaching any off-season plan with the #1 goal of signing him to an extension that satisfies both HIM and the Twins. Because to trade him now would be selling extremely low (Kepler is valued on MLB Trade Values at about 34.0 points, Buxton at about 25.0 points and something that both sides can live with is certainly attainable. This task is the first big test of the current FO and ownership. If they can't accomplish this, it will be a major FAIL. Once Buxton is securely in the fold the FO needs to devote the vast majority of resources to acquiring 3 SP's and at least one BP arm that would be our clear CLOSER to solidify the back end. At least one major expenditure for a front line starter be that Rodon, Ray, Thor, Gausman---whatever. Then either two trades or one trade and another FA acquisition to fill out #2 & #3. Ober is penciled in as the #4 and the young-guns fill in as the #5 throughout the season. A stop-gap SS like Iglesias or Galvis will not break the bank. Depending on what you'd need to give up for Sandy Alcantara (Jeffers & Kepler or Jeffers and Larnach) the Twins MUST find a way to get more out of either Kepler or Larnach, whoever remains, and Miguel Sano in 2022. It's been encouraging to see Sano the last couple of weeks. The potential is there. Can he just be a BIT more consistent. Kepler just exasperates me. He's got talent. It's just not being coached properly. I'd love to keep him, but maybe a change of scenery (Miami??) would help.

Good points Lonestar. I had traded Kepler and Jeffers for Alcantara but if it's Larnach MLB trade Values would have that being an even bigger over-pay, and result in $10-$11 million more in salary for the Twins (Kepler's salary vs. Larnach's MLB minimum). Maybe Miami throws something else in for us. But I would still make a trade like this for 3-years of Alcantara. He gives the Twins a solid major league arm while the Balazovic, Ryan, Canterino, Winder, Woods-Richardson, Duran, Strotman etc...arms sort themselves out. Heck, if Alcantara becomes what we'd hoped Berrios would be, then the Twins should sign him to another 4-5 years (he would only be 25-26 when we would be acquiring him). Your suggestions on relief pitchers names are excellent and by not going for a big name (but guys who are younger, more effective and have a higher and longer possible upside, you're on the right track. Maybe more of those names will surface as the season ends, winter comes and "Hot Stove" talk heats up. But your points are good and you're spot on regarding has-been RP names who are too expensive and too risky. Find the Andrew Chafin types. That's what Falvey and Levine are SUPPOSED to be good at.

Thank You for the great topic Cody, although I have to admit, it's frustrating to no end to have you lay out the "typical" Twins approach taken by the Pohlad regime. The fact is, if the Pohlad's don't start investing some serious money into their "baseball team" their business model is going to smell like fruit rotting on the tree. Self imposed salary levels are BS. The product they put on the field this year is embarrassing. And they can't use the excuse of "injuries.' EVERYBODY deals with injuries. As I've stated before and will continue to: When you compare how the White Sox approached this off-season to how the Twins did (the counter moves the Twins made to the moves the White Sox made) you see a team SERIOUS about contending and another that was completely UN-serious. How else do you compare the signings of Lynn, Hendricks and Keuchel to Happ, Colome and Shoemaker ??? So it's either FO complete incompetence or it's penurious ownership. Or BOTH. Neither is a satisfactory answer if the Twins don't want to play before crowds of 7,000 people at beautiful Target Field in 2022, 2023 and beyond. Jimmy Pohlad is going to have to blow up the "business model" and spend some serious cash this off season or the only money this franchise will make will come from TV revenue (and have you seen what the ratings are for Twins games lately???). The plan: Sign Carlos Rodon (28 years old) to 5-years $110 million. Could have offered that to Berrios but traded him instead. Now you have a #1 for 5-years. Other options, same money are Kevin Gausman, Thor, (or Stroman for a bit less). TRADE for pitching. MLB Trade Values has this trade as doable; Twins trade Jeffers 27.9 value and Kepler 37.5 value (Total 65.40) to the Marlins for Sandy Alcantara (25 years old) 61.90 value. It's a bit of an overpay but that's the price of Starting Pitching. I'd talk to the Orioles about Jon Means (28 years old) and probably over-pay a bit there as well. So in 2022, I have a staff of Rodon, Alcantara and Means with Ober #4 and a cast of thousands to fill #5 (Maeda if/when he's healthy, Dobnak, and ALL those young arms (except any young arm I trade to Baltimore in the needed Means trade). The Twins need competent pitchers for 2022. If I have to give up a Duran, Winder, Strotman etc... to get Jon Means it must be done. We've got "arms aplenty" in the pipeline. We need some arms that can help the Twins NOW. And an earlier suggestion on another thread to sign Kimbrel to close and another arm (Rosenthal/Yates/etc...) to build the back end of the bullpen needs to happen. It will cost cold hard CASH. But that's the price the Twins need to pay to regain some stature in this market. Whether it's Pohlad or the FO, the Twins have been trying to get by on the cheap for as long as we can remember. I for one REFUSE to accept the same old same old CRAP from this franchise. So instead of the "likely" scenario laid out by Cody, I challenge the Twins from TOP to BOTTOM. EARN MY INTEREST. Because if they lose a baseball guy like ME, they've lost their FOUNDATION. And they will not recover.

AMEN Mike ! AMEN !! Can I get an AMEN for mike8791 !!! That is really "it" in a nutshell. If the Pohlad's (lookin' at YOU Jimbo) are "content" with this season and these massive front office failures, NOTHING is going to change. And 2022 is a crucial year. Sign Buxton to something that works for him AND the Twins and then get serious about adding quality pitching. They have a LOT of potentially GOOD pitchers in the pipeline. Health is the #1 concern for each of them. But the Twins have the resources to rebuild their pitching staff, albeit at a COST. Some of those young pitchers are 2-3 years away. We need a year or two to bridge the gap. If the Twins signed a "Rodon: and traded for someone like "Alcantara" and then some of those young pitchers blossom at the right time, the Twins would have built themselves a solid foundation. Coinciding with the young pitching would be the development of Kiriloff, larnach, Martin and Lewis. But after 2021 (and zero playoff wins in FOREVER) it's time to make a commitment. Or sell the team and spend your days counting your money.

GREAT topic mike8791 ! Sorry I'm finally seeing this on a Saturday (as opposed to Wednesday when you posted it ). Your plan is also my plan with of course some subtle differences. My plan is also contingent on the idea that Jim Pohlad actually WANTS a competitive team and is willing to pay for it in 2022. My #1: Sign Buxton to an extension. Tie lucrative bonuses to "games played.' If Buxton PLAYS he will be productive. Take care of HIM and protect the Twins in case of injury. This is not a difficult concept and should already have been done. #2 Sign a #1 SP. I'm cooling on Thor. Him not being able to throw breaking pitching for the rest of this year has me a little nervous. I've targeted Rodon in previous posts. Watching him this season it looks to me like he's figured things out. Kind of like when Johan Santana started to figure things out. The Twins FO had their behind's battered by the White Sox last season. Just steal him away from the CWS. Strengthen the Twins rotation while weakening the primary division competitors. PLUS, I think Rodon would be cheaper than Thor and a better option. Failing that, a Robbie Ray/Kevin Gausman option is an absolute necessity. Especially with Maeda a possible question mark. a "Pineda" type is also necessary to slot in behind Rodon and Alcantara while Ryan/Ober/Dobnak and others fill out out #4 & #5. If Maeda is O.K. then you have a potential: Rodon, Alcantara, Maeda, "Pineda type" and Ober/Dobnak/Ryan/etc... for #5. Compare THAT starting staff to the junk we fielded this season. I had already posted a trade with Miami for Sandy Alcantara that was a slight overpay for the Twins. Alcantara for Jeffers and Kepler. Miami has LOTS of young pitching. They're already playing Jorge Alfaro in LF. He's not their answer at catcher. Jeffers gives Miami a solid defense catcher (which they desperately need) who will eventually be a decent hitter. Kepler gives the Marlins a solid defensive OF'er who with a change of scenery and instruction, may just return to the promise he showed just 2-seasons ago. As I said, it's a slight overpay for the Twins but something they should certainly pursue. I'm willing to give up a solid young catcher like Jeffers because we NEED a SP like Alcantara, and I'm fine with Garver, Rortvedt and even a journeyman like Tomas Tellis to be more than adequate behind the plate. Having a bona fide CLOSER is a MUST. Maybe the Twins would be in a little better position in the Central standings if they (Colome) hadn't blown so many darn games to start the season. The whole "vibe' of the season was damaged by that miserable start that the Twins never recovered from. And our bullpen went from a team strength to an albatross that dragged us down all season. This needs to be corrected. I've mentioned signing a Rosenthal/Yates type but your suggestion of Kimbrell caught my eye. He's healthy. He's a proven closer. And he's been unbelievably GOOD this year. My fear is that he would regress. But we're talking about an elite closer throughout his career. He's a gamble worth taking. But your suggestion of signing ANOTHER high-leverage BP arm is something I agree with. Who it is, and how much it costs is something that should become clearer this winter. But a BP that has Kimbrel, Taylor Rogers, "mystery addition," Tyler Duffey, and Jorge Alcala has some juice and goes 5 guys deep. A couple of other arms could come from Jhoan Duran or some other young, promising arms that could be brought along slowly in low leverage situations. The potential is there for the Twins to once again have a dominant BP. Is the will and the strategy in place to address this ?? One area I agree but disagree is SS. I'd rather invest in PITCHING, PITCHING, PITCHING, than Trevor Story, Javier Baez, Cory Seager or Carlos Correa. However, I'd bring in an affordable vet with a solid glove and acceptable offensive skills so I could leave Polanco at 2B and Arraez as my leadoff hitter and super utility guy. I would sign either Jose Iglesias or Freddy Galvis. Each is a defensive upgrade from Polanco and they are NOT Simmons. Iglesias/Galvis is my 1-2 year bridge to finding out if Lewis is my SS of the future or not. I believe Kiriloff will hit. He could be in RF (probably, with Kepler in a package for Alcantara) or possibly 1B (although that's where Sano would be if Kepler is traded). Donaldson and Mirada/Arraez man 3B (Josh also DH's a lot). Larnach his potential but he doesn't just get handed LF. A RH option is needed. I've been impressed with Refsnyder's hustle and production this season, but I'm willing to concede a better option is needed. Garver C Sano 1B Polanco 2B Iglesias SS Donaldson 3B Kiriloff RF Buxton CF ?? LF and Arraez DH is not a bad lineup. especially when you field the possible starting rotation and bullpen listed above. That team could CONTEND. And a BIG SPLASH at the trade deadline at a position of need could be VERY intriguing. Last off-season while the White Sox were building a winner, we sat on our behinds. The failure of this FO was simply EPIC. What's it gonna be in 2022 Jimmy Pohlad ???

I like your list. I would add Ryan to the list and as much as i like Canterino, maybe drop him to #10. I might put Ryan as high as #3 ahead of Jordy Blaze, because Ryan is further along and will "arrive" ahead of Balazovic.

greglw3...I could only "rec' you one time. Consider my "rec' 1000x. This FO has completely spit the bit TWICE in 5 years. The first time for Molitor after Molly had led the twins to a playoff appearance and THIS off season. The question for me, is did the Pohlad's doom this season with payroll considerations or did our FO just massively miscalculate ?? The "company line" is that the Pohlad's said "Do what you feel you need to for us to win the division and while we're doing that, hey, let's win at least ONE playoff game...O.K." ?? That's the "company line." Assuming that's true, just for the sake of discussion, the current FO shouldn't even be allowed this off season. 40% abject failure is not what we, as fans were sold when we helped fund Target Field, nor when we hired the current geniuses to "build a pitching staff equal to the Cleveland Indians in philosophy and execution." So is this the Pohlad's willing to accept mediocrity or worse ? Or is it the current "brain trust" in charge of talent judgement and procurement ? Or is it Rocco, unable to manage without a team capable of hitting a Major League record 307 HR's in a season ? Because when I look at what the White Sox did this off season and the "moves" the twins made to counter. or I look at what the S.F. Giants are doing this season (both their FO and their Manager) I see a night and day difference. Again, I say "are the Pohlad's "satisfied" with where their team is and how this off season and season of 2021 has turned out??"

Good topic Brock and one that's generating a lot of good thoughts/opinions. I think we're ALL frustrated this season has been such a disaster. But, as I've said in some other posts, when you look at how White Sox ownership and management approached this off season and compare it to how TWINS ownership and management approached this off season you can easily see the Twins are right where they should be in the standings (getting our just desserts if you will). And we've traded Berrios and Cruz. I agree whole heartedly that the Twins need to jettison some chaff and at least get a sense of what they have. Even if a Ryan or Balazovic only get 3-4 starts that only go 4-5 innings based on pitch counts. If the Pohlad's are "satisfied" with how this season has gone and with the judgement of our FO this past off season, then as Twins fans we are in a world of hurt. Frank Viola just called them all out on twitter and rightfully so. But Brock is right. The Twins need to make some obvious (and some tough) decisions on their 40-man roster. Seth has a good "short" list of 4 guys who should be up with the Twins VERY SOON. I hope the Twins FO gets their act together but after this year's failure, my optimism is guarded.

Yup, this is the guy I see as a future Twins #1, the other possibility being Ryan. He should already be in St. Paul as the Saints make their playoff stretch run. Lord knows, we should probably be taking some of the Saints talent up to the Twins soon. But you're right Nash, Jordy Blaze (and I would add Ryan) are the two SP's the Twins really need to get their feet wet and show promise for 2022...IF 2022 is going to be something other than a 75-82 win season.

I'm with you tony&rodney. Oliva and Carew are my Fav's. Killebrew is the greatest. Here's my try: Carew 2B Puckett CF Mauer C Killebrew DH Oliva RF Gaetti 3B Bostock/Allison LF (platoon) Morneau/Hrbek 1B (tough call) Gagne SS Tovar (Utility) SP: Santana, Blyleven, Kaat RP: Nathan, Aguilara

I totally agree with the second opinion. Never "rush" into surgery of any kind unless necessary. If he's possibly going to miss the entire season next year, then a couple days or even a couple weeks don't matter. Be thorough, and proceed with caution. Assuming he's out all year next year, would this change the FO's plans for 2022 ? This opens up an entirely new range of issues for endless discussion on TD. One approach would be "heck, he was our #2 or #3, scrap any chance of contending in 2022, let's look at a LOT of young arms." That might be their approach already. The other would be to look at Maeda as a sunk cost for 2022, go out and sign/trade for a #1 (a Thor, Rodon, Gausman type) and then aim a little higher than a Dylan Bundy/Pineda type as a 2nd FA/Trade acquisition. Lineup is by and large intact with some minor tweaking so let's see what 2022 brings. Then, when Maeda comes back for 2023 you're that much deeper and you've seen what some of your young can or can't do. The problem is, unlike a team like the White Sox, that sees an off-season of opportunity and just flat out goes for it, the Twins have disappointed all the way back to the Santana, Mauer, Morneau years. So to expect them to get serious about our favorite baseball team would be expecting a philosophical awakening.

Great points all. A lot of Recs from me. Yup, guys like Cave do nothing for me or for the Twins for that matter. If you're a .179 hitter, I don't care if you're Willie Mays with the glove in CF, you just aren't a major leaguer. Now should be all about learning what you have with young talent and how they might fit next year or in 2-3 years. Getting the Jake Cave's of the world AB's does not move the needle one bit.

If 7/$80 is acceptable and the "incentives" are what's holding this up that is insane !!! Tie his incentives to games played. If Buxton PLAYS he will be "productive." In many ways. I would pay him up to $25 million a year with with games played incentives added in EASILY. Maybe more in years 6 & 7. As wise people on here have mentioned: We don't have anybody who is even close to a replacement in CF. If the Twins are going to have a prayer to be relevant and contend they need much better pitching...AND...BUXTON !! If Buxton gets hurt and doesn't play in the necessary games to attain various bonuses the Twins are PROTECTED. If he plays, he will be worth every dollar. Heck, Buxton being up gives me a reason to tune into or go to a game now. I'm certainly not engaging with anything Twins to see Jake Cave play !! When you look at what his last 153 games played line is, that's impressive. You load incentives tied to games played. If Buxton plays, he gets PAID ! If he doesn't, the Twins don't have a ton of guaranteed money like Mauer's contract weighing them down. This is NOT rocket science.

Yes. The total failure of the FO to put a competitive team on the field for the Twins leaves me no choice. As I've said, either the Pohlad's put handcuffs on them and prevented them from seriously trying to fortify the team to defend our Division Tiltle against the burgeoning White Sox, OR, they failed in such epic fashion that the Pohlad's should be doing some serious reevaluating. 2022 is make our break for Falvey, Levine and even Rocco. It's easy to manage when your team is hitting 307 HR's. (and especially when the division was so weak). That's not really managing. That's just "lettin' the boys play." Can Rocco manage? 2019 and a 60 game season in 2020 hasn't convinced me yet. Give me the S.F. manager, the Mariners manager (no THERE's a guy who's MANAGING.

This is a GREAT question, especially considering Maeda's "forearm tightness." I see no reason to pitch Kenta the remainder of the season. Shut him down and get him healthy for next year. I said Brewers just to make a vote, but I really have no idea. I do think Barnes has had his chance and that Maeda's situation opens up possibilities to audition a number of guys, most notably Ryan, Strotman, Winder and Balazovic. I would consider a 6 man rotation to limit innings. I would consider using openers and other such machinations to limit excessive innings/pitches but other than getting Buxton back on the field just to see him play, I'm not focused on what our final record could or should be. I want to see a number of players from the pitchers to Miranda to get a sense of what we have. That's the only thing holding my attention for anything Twins related. I don't care to see any more Jake Cave at bats. I would be interested in seeing Miranda or Celestino or Gordon, certainly Larnach again. But the FO totally blew this season when they answered the White Sox moves with the trash they did. Did the Pohlad's LIMIT their ability ? The company line is they did not. They could have, theoretically out-bid the White Sox and brought Liam Hendricks back into the fold. "Theoretically." But they didn't even come close. I'm not saying that single move would have changed the entire season, but imagine Hendricks closing games for us the first two months of the season instead of blown save after blown save. So if it REALLY wasn't the Pohlad's hanging onto nickels like manhole covers, Falvey and Levine should be operating this off season like their jobs are on the line. Because they should be.

O.k. Tony&Rodney here's an example of what you're talking about based on MLB Trade Values. Twins get: Sandy Alcantara 25 years old 61.90 value Marlins get: Ryan Jeffers young catcher 27.9 value and Max Kepler OF'er 37.5 value. Cost controlled talent. Total Value: 65.40 I have the Twins slightly over-paying because Starting Pitching probably needs to be slightly over-paid for. I hate to give up what we're giving up, but we have Garver and Rortvedt (and Telis as well as Austidillo). Jeffers is an asset that should probably be heavily considered in off season moves. I hate to give up on Kepler, but maybe a change in scenery is what he needs. It frustrates me no end that with the entire left side of the infield WIDE OPEN Max is hitting .200. Miami needs offense and Max could bounce back in a big way for them. With Kiriloff, Larnach, Lewis and Martin we can make a move like this. The second potential deal with the Marlins would be Max Meyer 29.3 value acquired for Jeffers and Brent Rooker 3.3 value Total Value: Twins get 29.3. Marlins get 31.2. With the Universal DH coming and Rooker having undeniable power, this is a worthy gamble for the Marlins. They get their catcher of the future and a DH with POWER. We get a young pitching prospect with high upside. The question is how soon would Meyer be in the Big Leagues. The Marlins are loaded with pitching, so either Alcantara (who would head our rotation immediately) or Meyer (who would arrive at a to be determined date) would be hard for them to give up, but like us giving up Kepler and/or Jeffers the Marlins have the depth to seriously consider either of these moves.

I won't answer on ALL of them, just a couple. Universal DH. It's about damn time. No more 7 inning doubleheaders. Or runners at 2B to start an extra inning. (this is MLB for crying out loud, not Fast-Pitch Softball). I'm not sure about Robo Umps. But I'm leaning that way. No more "Star Player' treatment. The strike zone is the same for everybody. Outlaw defensive shifts. It infruiates me to no end that a guy like Kepler can't hit .260-.275 with the whole left side of the infield WIDE OPEN. I would put hash marks on the outfield grass by near the infield where SS's 2B's and 3B's must position themselves. If someone cheats, the batter is given first base. Not sure how you would score it, but with MLB hitters unable to figure this out and batting averages going down, and down and down, (I'd rather see a HIT than a WALK as a fan) this is my most drastic suggestion. I would cut the season to 154, balance the divisions and schedule, but still keep A.L. & N.L. The reason I would shorten the schedule "somewhat" is that I HATE playoff baseball in late October and World Series games in NOVEMBER !! End the regular season so that whatever the playoff layout is has a Game #7 of the World Series no later than October 20-21. Finally, Minor League wages and housing. Honestly, as RICH as MLB is, I don't understand why some enterprising and enlightened organization hasn't thought about this before. Buy or construct housing for the TEAM somewhere near the minor league stadium of complex. Room and board is FURNISHED by the TEAM. Like a training table. If players are married/have families, separate housing accommodations would also be provided and again, in close proximately to the "bachelor' teammates. These properties would have playgrounds for their kids/families to hang out together. This should be standard in the upcoming agreement between the players and the owners. The Twins should be building a community within the organization that allows the players the utmost ability to focus on improving as a ballplayer to pay off as an investment for the Twins. This would also be a HUGE step and commitment from the owners. MAJOR League players make a TON of money. They don't really need significantly more. By bringing all signed players into the Union, the owners are again taking a HUGE step. How greedy do the players want to appear. Are they truly a "Brotherhood" or just cash driven mercenaries. A salary FLOOR is needed. A cap may always be impossible. But competitive balance is an issue. The Dodgers, with ALL their resources and advantages should never have gone 32 years between World Series Titles. Dave Roberts get less out of more than most managers. The Giants skipper is running circles around him this season. The Dodgers only have themselves to blame. Maybe pigs will fly. But the fact the Dodgers can potentially just eat whatever happens with Trevor Bauer's contract (something that would cripple at least 25 other teams) shows that "competitive balance" is in the eye of the beholder.

I think Brandon's listing of the potential roster is a "starting point" that doesn't take into consideration what FA moves or trades the Twins could make. I think that was Brandon's intention, because what fun would there be if he laid out EVERYTHING leaving us nothing to talk about. I had a fairly long take on what the Pohlad's and FO (as well as Rocco) have for their upcoming off-season. In a nutshell: Last year the White Sox showed a real sense of urgency to compete. They needed a closer, and signed the BEST on the market, Liam Hendricks. We needed a closer. We signed Colome. They wanted better starting pitching and signed Lance Lynn and Dennis Keuchel. We signed Happ and Shoemaker. Etc...Etc... The White Sox passed us like a speeding bullet. Our off-season was an epic fail. And it's not the only time this FO has failed epically. How serious are the Pohlad's about their "investment" ?? We've been hearing ad-nauseum from our FO that there are no restrictions from the Pohlad's on payroll. Prove it. It's harder to get a Saints ticket than a Twins ticket. Is that what the Pohlad's consider "optimal" ??? Most of our lineup is indeed set. If they don't sign Buxton to a mutually agreeable extension then just sell the team boys. Your "investment" will crater. Baseball teams "contend" when they pitch. It's true for just about every team, ever. The Twins are no exception. We have a LOT of young, talented arms that have proven nothing at the major league level. Name a team team that has "contended" with the list of SP's that Brandon provided. I can't. Brandon did this intentionally to spur "conversation." They need a #1 and a #3 added to that SP rotation. They can let Dobnak and whoever rises to the top fill out #4 & #5. They need a proven CLOSER. (did you get my drift above on the contrast between us and the White Sox on who had a serious approach last off-season and who didn't)?? So a CLOSER and a reliable vet arm (ala Clippard-type but not limited to him) would help the BP immensely. Extend Taylor Rogers. Bring back Duffey. Some of the young arms can get their feet wet in the pen. Shortstop is something that can easily be filled with a Jose Iglesias/Freddy Galvis type, maybe Simmons (for a dirt cheap one-year deal). Give Lewis a year at AAA to get a better sense of his potential positional home. I had been very much in the camp to get a Trevor Story type SS. Not so much anymore. We need PITCHING. (the Dodgers deal for Trea Turner and Scherzer was brilliant. Watch Cory Seager shift to 3B and Justin Turner DH with Scherzer in their rotation for 2022. BRILLIANT) !! I look to bring in a new hitting coach with a particular focus on Kepler and Sano. I'm all for trading Sano for anyone who would take him for a bag of baseballs just to open up his $10-$12 to add more pitching. Failing that, he gets one more year to improve or I just cut bait. Same with Kepler. I stick with Larnach. I see potential but I see the holes. I think he'll work out. I keep Refsnyder. He plays hard and would be a good #4 outfielder. I think after the season he's had in AAA Miranda deserves a real shot at a big league roster spot. What else does he have to prove at AAA? I say goodbye to Cave, Garlick, Austidillo, and Rooker. If they find a way back to the Saints roster, fine. But I'm expecting moves and 40-man roster decisions where these guys (especially someone like Cave) don't deserve a "lifetime bench position" on a major league ballclub. Seriously, guys like this can be replaced without breaking a sweat. Gordon is AAA, nothing more. Guys like Martin and Lewis will be pressing soon enough. And there are a number of pitchers out of options that the twins can move on from. I noticed Canterino wasn't listed. Not sure if he's not at a high enough minor league level or was just missed but I am very high on his potential. He's in the mix for 2023 for sure, if not sooner depending on health and performance.

That's my prognosis for the FO's off season plan. #1 Buxton. He needs to be locked up and Rosaries handed out for good health going forward. As I've said, with Buxton's injury history, but his undeniable talent starting to manifest, a contract loaded with incentives for games played each season (because we KNOW, if he plays, good things happen) that helps Buxton get paid commensurate with his talent and also protects the team from paying a LOT of money for frequent IL stints should not be as difficult as negotiating Middle East Peace. There is enough hitting talent on this team to compete. heck, they are #4 or #5 in the Major Leagues in HR's. With the exception of Arraez and Polanco (and possibly Donaldson) NONE of them look like they have any clue or plan AB to AB. We need a new hitting coach. Guys like Kepler and Sano just have too much potential to look as bad as they have. I know batting average isn't valued much nowadays, but the Twins just have to start making more consistent contact. Figure out an approach that sacrifices a little power to beat the shift more consistently and stop killing two on, nobody out innings with back to back K's on 3 pitches each. When baseball teams are "competitive" they pitch. Just look at a history of the Twins from the 60's to the present. The Twins have generally always been a team that hits. But when they're relevant, they PITCH. They will have some money to play with this off-season. There are indications that the division they dominated in 2019 & 2020 is slipping away from them. The White Sox have a GOOD team. They needed a closer and went out and signed former Twin Liam Hendricks. We signed Colome. They needed a SP and signed Lance Lynn. We signed Happ & Shoemaker. The Tigers have some really nice young SP's who are starting to come around. Cleveland has been missing Bieber most of this season and is still waaay ahead of us in the standings. The Twins have their work cut out. This is on the Pohlads, the FO and Rocco. They had an epically BAD off-season and it shows on the field, in the standings and at Target Field with attendance (a Saints ticket is harder to get than a Twins ticket, literally, is THIS what the Pohlads want)?? We have a TON of young arms with potential, but no big league track record and some health issues. A #1 Starting Pitcher is essential. We've listed many possibilities. Another #3ish is needed. We've suggested Pineda or something similar. There are plenty of young arms and Dobnak (I haven't completely given up on him yet, but with the talent coming up behind him, he either breaks out next year or he's gone) to fill the #4 & #5 spots. And some of those young arms could get their feet wet in the BP. AND, at least one reliable, stud closer type and a middling "Clippard" type to "lengthen" the BP. Are the Pohlad's serious enough to enable the FO to do what needs to be done. The FO always says "We're under no restrictions from the Pohlad's regarding payroll." REALLY ?? Prove it. Identify the problem areas. Identify potential fixes. Identify the best talent to effect those fixes. Execute. I myself have grown very weary of all this BS double-talk from the Twins. We gave them Target Field on a silver platter to ensure we would be consistently competitive. The history of the Twins since the 2004 season up to present is to never make a bold enough move to put us over the hump. We wasted the Santana, Mauer, Mourneau years and it looks like we squandered the "Cruz" years as examples. What's it gonna be Pohlad's ?? The White Sox showed an urgency last off-season that was breathtaking. We yawned. They passed us like a speeding bullet. Either get serious or watch your "investment" tank !!. Give your FO the means to accomplish the task. At that point, it's on THEM. If they have another epic fail like this last off-season's dismal failure (or like the turd they handed Paul Molitor with Logan Morrison and an out of shape Lynn) then it's time to fire FalVine and bring in a new team. And Rocco's seat should be VERY warm once the 2022 season is done. He's been out-managed all season long. Look at the Giants or Mariners. Now there's a manager earning their paycheck. Even with all that's gone wrong this year, we shouldn't be THIS bad. And our effort against the Yankees these first two games ? Well that says it all.

I kind of wonder why Buxton isn't just playing games for the Twins ?? If he's healthy enough to play, is he any more likely to get hurt playing in the majors or the minors ? I would say he's probably MORE likely to get hit by a AAA pitcher who still has "command issues." I realize this season is lost, but if he can play CF and take at bats for St. Paul, he should be in CF taking AB's for the TWINS. He doesn't need "practice." He's GOOD. Get Buck up to the Twins and say goodbye to Jake Cave.

This is the task of the FO this off season: 1. Sign Buxton to an extension. With his injury history but also his potential, he and the twins should be able to come to a mutually satisfying agreement. If we trade him, we will not get close to his true value. Heck, as I've stated before, MLB trade Values has Kepler at 30.4 and Buxton at about 25.0. Come on. The Twins clearly ended up valuing Buxton more than Berrios going forward, so with their best pitcher now a Blue Jay, the FO certainly must be planning how to set up a competitive pitching staff for 2022 and beyond. And look, anytime the Twins have been competitive, in the pennant mix, it's been because they pitched. No matter how good their hitting was. As usual, my thoughts align pretty closely with Mike Sixel and Tony&Rodney, but I must point out that Leviathan added Jon Gray and Zac Gallen to the list of potential targets. The Twins have a TON of talented minor league pitchers, some of whom need to get healthy. That's why it's always good to have a LOT. Injuries happen and depth is necessary. While Thor intrigues me I see the Mets offering a QO and Thor accepting to build his value back up. If the Twins were in the same position with Thor we'd be doing that. I can't see the Giants letting Gausman slip away but I'd be looking at him. I'd look at Stroman. John Means and Sandy Alcantra are a couple of trade options. Carlos Rodon is certainly someone I'd look at. And I've also been advocating for two "good" BP arms. One a "closer" (Rosenthal/Yates types) and another solid arm. Some of our up and coming arms could be lower leverage RP's while we get their feet wet while just as an example we have Rosenthal to close, and Rogers and BP signing #2 as well as Duffey to handle the 6th, 7th & 8th. I'd be kind of underwhelmed with bringing Pineda back, but at least he's a better option than Shoemaker or Happ (have you guys noticed how well Happ is pitching for the Cards??). A better SS would be nice. But to compete, after locking up Buxton, I invest most of my money into pitching. Jose Iglesias or Freddy Galvis could hold down the fort for a year. If Baez could be had for $12-$15 million a year, I'd consider it. His glove is fantastic. He's durable, hits with power and can run a little. He just strikes out waaay too much and he'd be hitting in the vicinity of Sano. Talk about rally killers. But I also wholeheartedly agree with those who want to see Miranda up here playing 3B. I want to see Ryan, Strotman and Balazovic in that 6-man rotation. I'd like to see Austin Martin if we'd allow it. The FO needs to get a look at these guys on a major league diamond to get just a sense of what they may or may not have. I think the Twins could compete in 2022. They certainly should be better than this season's version that the FO put together and Rocco has underwhelmed with. These guys were all hired by the Pohlad's to bring "sustained excellence" to the franchise. We don't have anything near that right now. Guys like Kepler and Sano haven't "grown" they've regressed. Obvious areas like the pitching staff have been completely messed up. The FO and Rocco have dug themselves a hole and the Pohlad's should be demanding better. It's also incumbent on the Pohlad's to offer the FO the resources to CORRECT the situation. That's what smart businesses do. But the leash for Falvey/Levine and Rocco should be short. 2022 must show significant improvement or a different regime may need to be brought in to set a new course for 2023 and beyond.

Interesting topic, and one with a myriad of good opinions. DMan hit on one of my points right off the bat. Lewis has tremendous positional flexibility. And as far as us trading Graterol, it was a "Trade" not a free agent signing. This all come down to how much the Pohlad's are willing to spend to put the Twins in a position to compete. We've all weighed in on the Buxton vs Berrios debate and the answer is in. The Twins valued Buxton more. Now it's clear Buxton has to be the #1 priority this off-season. Both sides are taking a big risk in any kind of deal. To me, that should mean that a reasonable comprise between the two sides should be reached. Because as others have mentioned, if we sign one of the big SS FA's WITHOUT having Buxton locked down, the days of Buxton as a Twin will be coming to an end. The bigger question to me is that once Buxton is locked down, do you try to sign an elite SS or do you invest that money in SP's and BP. Again, I come to the conclusion that the money needs to be spent on PITCHING. The Twins suddenly have GOBS of young, talented arms. Maybe some are ready as soon as 2022. However, beyond Maeda (who I believe will bounce back next year) they don't have MAJOR LEAGUE proven arms. Will they bring back Pineda ? Will they spend the money to make a splash for Gasman, Rodon, Stroman, Thor ?? They should also sign a secondary SP arm like a Dylan Bundy or someone similar on the cheap. They still need a CLOSER. They must sign a Rosenthal/Yates kind of guy, put Rogers back into his 8th inning role and occasional closer and let the other arms slot into their places. Remember, some of those young talented arms may start out in our BP instead of starting. Which leads me to my final observation: We will need a "bridge" SS while Lewis plays all of 2022 in the minors and gives the Twins a clearer picture of what they have. Two names that make sense and would be affordable are Jose Eglesias and Freddy Galvis. They are "competent." And even if you signed one of them to a 2-year deal each could serve as another swing infielder improving our depth. If I'm the Twins FO my off-season plan is to sign Buxton. INVEST in MAJOR LEAGUE pitchers to fill in gaps in the starting rotation and bullpen and find a "bridge" SS so I can have options come 2023. This plan does not involve trading Royce Lewis or signing Story, Seager, et all.

Good Analysis Major League Ready. Thanks !!

Where does a guy like Griffen Jax fit into this equation ??

Cave misplaying that ball last night putting a guy at 3rd with nobody out should be the final straw. Keeping guys with low ceilings around like Cave is one of the things killing this team. Cut bait, and find a new fishin' spot.