Riverbrian

I never said better. Does he have to be better than Mookie Betts to play some 3B if needed? I am saying... Gordon has a lot more infield experience and I am saying that you seem to be holding things against Gordon that you are using to support Betts. I was thinking that I might have some time tonight while watching the game to throw a list together of players that have moved around to accommodate team needs. I decided it wasn't necessary because I know that you know that players get moved around. But... thanks for the heads up... You've got specific qualifiers to filter it down before I even start so yeah... no need. I understand that not everybody is going to be able to be multi-positional. I hope to God... you don't think that is what I think. Sano in the OF didn't work out. Perhaps your Sano style softball didn't translate either. Just hit your dinger and drink some beer afterwards it's all your softball team is probably asking of you. If you think I'm completely outside of the margins suggesting that Gordon could play occasional 3B in order to find a roster spot for a guy who might hit the ball. You say we won't agree... I agree on that... It's a gap that we will never close. I'm sure they have a better idea of Nick's capabilities than I do or you do. I won't argue that. They probably have a better idea of Emilio Pagan or Nick Anderson's capabilities as well. I still trust them but let's recognize the margins that we are probably talking about here. If it's my call. Kirilloff can hang a bit in AAA but not much longer to get him past Super Two... I don't know if Super Two will matter because I can't predict his future but it could matter quite a bit if he turns into something wonderful. An injury will shake him loose soon enough but yeah... other than the catcher positions... I do believe that any position player that goes on the DL... We have the position flexibility to make Kirilloff the next call up and improve this club if Kirilloff is indeed capable. Solano... Gordon... Larnach... Miranda... Sing for your supper. When I'm looking to add a bat or something that will help us such as Kirilloff... I'm subtracting from the bottom to make it happen.

You can't use both "fewer than 300 more IF innings in the majors" against Gordon. While using "Taking ground balls in fielding practice his whole career" in Bett's favor. I hope you understand why I will not accept that. You also can't state (earlier discussion) that Gordon has been slid down the defensive ladder as a sign of defensive issues but yet it's ok for Betts to slide down the defensive ladder without that tag. Isn't it better to assume that Gordon was the better OF choice amongst Simmons and Polanco so he grabbed a bigger glove to get some major league work in and help the club because that was where the team could use him. I'm ok with the assumption that Betts would have been the better choice to slide into OF work to get his bat in the lineup compared to Pedroia or Bogaarts sliding out there. Besides if you want to use that logic... why didn't Boston than slide Betts back to 2B when Eduardo Nunez was their 2B or 2019 when Brock Holt was the guy. Actually you are making my argument. Boston in an attempt to get a better bat into the lineup... they put Betts in a place where he could immediately help and that is really what I'm talking about and teams do this sort of thing often. I don't have the time to research it but I could come up with quite a large list if I did. Players slide around as needed and fantasy players get multi position eligibility after 10 games of it. 🙌 Gordon has 4,599 Innings of work at SS in the Minors. Gordon has more experience in the IF. Now if you have some defensive metrics that suggests that Boggs had an ultimate zone rating off the charts in those minor league days... I'll take a look before dismissing them due to my zone rating small sample size bias. 😀 Until then, we have two players who are both multi-positional. Occasional... As needed. As Earned. I can't predict the future but if Miranda is sent down... someone has to play the position. Farmer can handle the bulk but maybe Rocco is going to want to work Gordon into the game like he is doing now. Gordon will get some occasional games at 3B. Easy Enough. Let's say Gordon starts hitting the crap out of the ball and Farmer is Miranda version #2. At that point... let's make it more than occasional because you are going to want Gordon's bat in the lineup. Let's say you are right and Gordon turns out to be a nightmare at 3B like you are worried about. OK... fix that problem if it occurs... just like we are trying to fix the Miranda chasing balls above his head problem right now. We don't have to keep trotting Gordon out to 3B like it is forever. You make another move. How is Kirilloff playing now that we found him a roster spot and playing time? How is Larnach doing? How is Taylor doing? Can Buxton play CF yet? How is Kepler doing? Occasional is defined by what is necessary. Don't know... it's up to the players to show us what is necessary. I think your last paragraph is really the crux of the discussion. The Gordon Betts stuff is just an attempt to look beyond position when trying to improve your team as a whole. I agree that sending down Miranda and Larnach really doesn't do much for them and I don't believe that Kirilloff waiting his turn in AAA doesn't do much for Alex at this point either. It is what it is. However, letting Miranda and Larnach struggle doesn't do much for us and we are a contending team. Hit or get off the pot. Come back and try again later when we call upon you. Having options mean you can be optioned. It isn't entirely fair to the young player but the CBA is an agreed upon document. Cutting Solano? If he isn't contributing. I'm behind this. Right now... I don't see Solano as the problem but if he is just going to hang around and be a short side platoon. If Rocco isn't playing him... Bye... See ya Later. Because you are now a roster spot that is preventing us from bringing up a guy who might move the needle. 😎

Just when I thought you were making progress. 😁 We can't compare Nick Gordon to Mookie Betts as a baseball player in total. Of course not... but we are talking about making potentially slight defensive concessions in order to make what is hopefully a significant offensive gain. In that context... Based on experience. Nick Gordon is much less of a defensive risk in the infield than Mookie Betts is so we really can't compare Betts to Gordon because Betts doesn't measure up to Gordon on paper. The definition of occasionally is... occasionally. Gordon doesn't have to be the new 3B but Gordon could be an occasional guy. If you want to send Miranda down to AAA for Kirilloff to improve the offense. You can do it. But, you got to let Gordon play 3B occasionally and maybe... a me first glider in CF on occasion.

Articles like this paint the picture that it's strictly position to position considerations. But... It's not... I just don't see it that way. Never have... never will. It's 26 man roster spot to 26 man roster spot consideration. If our SS gets hurt and our AAA SS is hitting .200 in St. Paul. Do we have to call up that SS or can we choose the AAA guy who is playing the best? I acknowledge that there could be a defensive loss when you shift players around defensively to accommodate the current needs of a team but that defensive loss is minimal when utilized occasionally compared to a consistent offensive loss using a roster spot on a guy chasing **** over his head. Meanwhile, over in L.A. Mookie Betts has played 8 games at 2B and 6 games at SS. To my knowledge, It hasn't hurt them one bit and it doesn't mean that Betts is now an infielder.

I think Miranda has to cure Miranda. 1 day in the minors didn't cure him last year. That roster spot has value. If he's going to chase like this. Give someone else a chance to show that they won't chase and then maybe we will have added two non-chasers to the roster when Miranda figures it out.

Atta Boy... I'm proud of you!

You are absolutely right. I believe in him also but his chasing is horrible right now. Honestly, Miranda was a light in the late season fog last year and I'm grateful he is one of us and I think he will find it again this year. I have high hopes that we got a hitter to help us out for years to come. In the meantime, Bruce Springsteen and I are not going to waste our summer praying in vain for a savior to rise up from these streets. We need more than a return of Miranda to Miranda like production to get where we need to get to. Miranda can't sit here and struggle while holding a roster spot from someone that might be able to join him in our quest.

Yep... and honestly I am Ok if they hold him down in AAA a little longer to get him past super two status since a little longer is all it would take. I know there is no guarantee that super two status will matter with Alex. We could call him up and watch him struggle while the arbitrators laugh at him. He could perform like we hope and we can extend him making super two status non-relevant. However, if Alex is what we hope he is and the arbitrators like what he is doing. The extra money you are paying him during his upcoming arbitration years will add up to a decent player to play along side him making the team stronger overall and that is important for a team with a budget and we all know that we have a budget. This is his last option year. His super two status can only be managed in our favor this year so let's just get it out of the way since it won't take that long. In the meantime, my current participation in this discussion is more of an overall feeling that our offense needs help today and tomorrow and the obvious realization that the current 26 man rosterr is not performing decently enough offensively to keep him down due to 26 man roster space or positional log jams. We need a hitter and a good one. Larnach should know that he has options remaining while Kirilloff is breathing down his neck and Miranda needs to wake up because he has options while Farmer is soon to return and Gordon can play 3B in a pinch. #chpettit19 An article stating that injury to a limited group of players who play a specific spot on the diamond are the 5 scenarios that lead to a Kirilloff call up makes no sense to me at all. There are very few Twins hitting the ball well enough to keep Kirilloff down in St. Paul at the moment but I'm ok with him staying just a bit for future arbitration considerations.

I agree with you on Miranda. I remember feeling the same way last year. On May 18th, 2022 - Miranda's had offensively bottomed out at .332 OPS with a .096 BA. May 18th was also the date that Correa returned from the disabled list and we sent down Royce Lewis to practice other positions for 12 days before returning to the big club on May 29th. On May 29th, it was determined that Royce had learned everything he could about other positions and Royce Lewis was recalled. It was Miranda who was optioned to make room for Lewis. Of course due to the Lewis injury... Miranda was called right back to the big club on May 30. That one day in the minors did him well because after one day in the minors he woke up and BOOM... he was suddenly a hitter. Perhaps we should try that alarm clock again. 😉

10th Inning: Vazquez on 2nd Gordon: Pops up the bunt Kepler: Walks Correa: Hits into Double Play 11th Inning Correa on 2nd Buxton, Polanco and Larnach all go down swinging Just posting this here while we wait for the call up of Alex Kirilloff or while we debate if the team needs him.

10th Inning: Vazquez on 2nd Gordon: Pops up the bunt Kepler: Walks Correa: Hits into Double Play 11th Inning Correa on 2nd Buxton, Polanco and Larnach all go down swinging I wish I could just blow this off and say things like this happen in baseball on occasion. This really hasn't been occasionally with our club. Even with a ghost runner on 2nd to start the inning, this team has ****ing struggled to manufacture extra inning runs. Manfred Man on 2nd base. Twins are Blinded by the Light.

You are right. Kepler is indeed 5th on the team in OPS. This is why we need Kirilloff up here. Kepler's current .744 OPS needs to be 6th or 7th on the team in OPS.

Scenerio Number 6 The front office runs out of patience waiting for the offense to take flight... says Uncle and figures it out.

Yeah Maybe but not crazy high enough to keep a hitter down on the farm.

I'm going to keep watching along with you. Being a baseball fan like yourself. We have learned to manage failures as they come across. We've seen a cookie crumb on the floor on occasion and we will see more in the future. We still like Cookies.

1. Bad teams win 4 games out of 10. -- 65-97 (They got to beat someone to win 4 out of 10). 2. Average teams win 5 out of 10 -- 81-81 Record 3. Great teams lose 4 games out of 10 -- 97-65 Record (They got to lose to someone to lose 4 out of 10) The margins are thin and there are no absolutes from day to day. Sometimes a baseball bloops in and sometimes a rocket off the bat is caught. Any thought that these are teams that we should beat and these are teams that we should lose to ignores decades upon decades of the 3 points above being absolute reality. You got to strap it on and compete every day because everybody is capable of beating you on any given day and they often do. Or as Squirrel put it... It's the way the cookie crumbles. 😀

YO HEY! I'm on this island to. I brought you a Papaya last night. What's this alone stuff?

Expanded chasing is what I would call it. Way too much of it in the game. That strikeout on a 3-2 pitch by Vazquez in the 10th was a fastball across his eyeballs... Maybe a foot high. Runner on 2nd... leading off the 10th... is a key moment. We haven't faced a left handed starter since Nestor on Tuesday and we are not scheduled to face a left hander until Logan Allen on Saturday. There is no sense looking to Jeffers, Solano, Castro or Gordon for help... they are not playing. It's up to Buxton, Polanco, Correa, Larnach, Miranda, Kepler, Gallo, Vazquez and Taylor to hit. They don't appear to have any internal competition at the moment... So it's up to them.

Never!!!

1. Going back full circle to the original post that started the Gordon at 3B discussion. The 3B rotation is stopping Kirilloff IFGordon can't fill in for Farmer when Farmer fills in for Correa or Miranda when either of them are placed on the DL. LOL... You gotta go back about 5 pages to find the original post that started this. 2. I love the analogy because Dan Marino is like 80 years old now. It's too late... I've already branded Kepler as a me first glider... this can't be repaired. This is what happens on social media. 3. 🥶 4. I'm a simple guy. If you are going to prevent playing time for others. You better be killing it. It's also clear that I am much more defensively adventurous. I want to find some .900 OPS guys.

1. Your final question leads us back. "Why would you do it if you have better options". To find better options... Like potentially Kirilloff. 2. So Anthony Richardson over Dan Marino is what you are saying. BTW... You are making it really hard to like Kepler. A me first glider is what you are describing. 3. 🤡 4. I think it comes down to our definitions of every day guy. Logan Morrison played every day... he was an every day guy. In my context... he is not an every day guy. Max Kepler was an every day guy last year... In my context... he was not an every day guy.

1. To me that's a different subject. Once they were out of contention and selling... Simmons remaining to play SS for those two months served no purpose whatsoever. We were out and he wasn't coming back. Those two months with Simmons could have been spent on getting Gordon playing time or Riddle or Lin... or whoever. I don't care who... Simmons was just taking up valuable space at that point. Anybody who might be with the organization next year would have been fine with me. Simmons equaled no future benefit to the club. That's a different subject and I will go on record that I didn't like it. Anyway... I think the Twins have moved off of Gordon as a FULL TIME SS, I won't argue that. But, right now... Gordon isn't a FULL TIME anything. We are talking about occasional work at 3B. Which I am willing to bet... He could do without the walls caving in. Since his appearance on the 26 man roster in 2021. He has played SS in 33 games (including two games this year) starting 15 of them. The Walls didn't cave in and they wouldn't at 3B either. Maybe the Twins have transitioned him to other positions but he has still found his way back to the left side of the diamond. 2. I'm scared to go here. I'm hoping and praying that you are not going to quote Zone Metrics because I don't trust UZR because of the flooding of the routine play, which requires an incredibly large sample size in order to stabilize the effect of a non-routine play. He wasn't terrible as a CF in my opinion. He just wasn't as Good as Buxton. The Twins do play Gordon out in CF... Is Gordon better then Kepler in CF? Is the sample size big enough to make that determination? 3. 🤧 (Just choosing random emoji's that I never get a chance to use). 4. I wouldn't use the absolute "Never" on the Rays. They've had Kiermeier for quite some time to play the majority of CF and he is pretty good at it... But over the years you will find Avisail Garcia, Austin Meadows, Tommy Pham, Johnny Field, Randy Arozarena and Vidal Brujan listed as having played CF. Let's just compromise and put Buxton back in CF so we don't have to worry about utilizing CF in my devious plan to give playing time to Kirilloff and others simoultaneously. We could use the DH instead... like normal folks. On the rest... we are getting deep into the weeds. I'm not talking about name recoginition... I'm talking about actual performance. I believe it is possible to have 11 guys and 2 catchers who deserve every day playing time because they are performing. You will never get there if average play or below average can't yield playing time to others who might be better.

1. Would you go into the 2021 off season with Nick Gordon as your SS? I wouldn't have... At that point he was a light hitting minor league player with one option remaining and zero MLB AB's. That would be incredibly reckless because we were all speculating if Gordon was even worth a roster spot. Besides Simmons pushing Gordon down the defensive spectrum would be understandable in consideration of Simmons impeccable defensive reputation. 2. Max Kepler making role demands for his comfort is like Billy Squier with a contract rider that stipulates that the Shooting Star Casino ship in living palm trees for his January Thursday night performance in Mahnomen. 3. OK 4. First... Check the Roster resource last 6 lineup playing time distribution again. All 6 games were against right handers. Yes they platoon but there are no platoon splits on it. The Rays have 10 players out of 11 who are performing like Max Kepler is since April 16 and you say he deserves every day playing time... right now based on that. It is possible to have 13 players who deserve to play every day.

BTW... The Beauty of TD is: Posters like - Glunn, MLR, Jorgenswest, Stringer Bell, Ashbury, Mike Sixel, Swainzag, 9 of 12, Arko, Doc Bauer, the Rally goat, Wabene, Wsnydes, Dr. Gast, Rosterman, Tony Rodney, Squirrel, JD in Capital Letters, Vanimal, LA Law dude, Chief, Nicksapurpleguy and you of course. I've missed a bunch of others but these are some of the posters who I know have game even if I disagree.