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    Urgency To Trade Plouffe Growing

    Nick Nelson

    By Nick Nelson

    Trevor Plouffe is a decent player who is having a bad year. He has been one of the worst offensive starting third basemen in the league, and he's making $7 million. No one's going to give up a whole lot for him in a trade.

    At this point, that is almost immaterial. Terry Ryan needs to be looking at the big picture, and that starts with moving on from the club's longtime staple at the hot corner.

    Image courtesy of Brad Rempel, USA Today

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    Plouffe is doing little to help the Twins this year, but that's not why he needs to go. It's all about Miguel Sano. The experiment of running the big young slugger to the outfield needs to end, and soon, because the risks assumed by this ill-begotten idea are quickly becoming unpalatable.

    Last week, the Twins lost Sano to the disabled list after he came up lame while hustling down the first base line to beat out a grounder. There are no indications that the injury had anything to do with his playing the outfield, but it's incredibly easy to see the inherent dangers that accompany his roaming around out there.

    Earlier in the game where Sano strained his hamstring, he had a ball skip away from him in right, turning into a triple for Billy Burns. Watch the video of that play here. Watch Sano sprint after the ball then come to an awkward stop as it drops in front of him and bounces away, forcing him to change directions and accelerate again.

    These are not the kinds of plays Sano should be trying to make. In his short time with the Twins, he has proven susceptible to strains and sprains in his lower body – unsurprising for a man of his size. Last year he missed time with ankle and hamstring injuries, and he tweaked his ankle again at one point this spring. His latest mishap is the first to require a disabled list stint, but the probability of future incidents is heightened when he's chasing balls around in right field, and that's not even mentioning the danger of him colliding with another player or a wall.

    Third base is Sano's home. He's far more adept at playing there and far less likely to suffer an injury associated with running or abruptly changing directions. He's the most important bat in the Twins lineup and will be for years to come, but he is being played out of position and exposed to added injury risk for the sake of keeping Plouffe in the lineup.

    That made some sense as a short-term plan, theoretically, if Plouffe was going to be a key power bat for a contending team. Instead, Plouffe has been a non-factor for a lousy team. The Twins have no commitment to him beyond this year. The chances of him returning next year are growing slimmer and slimmer. It would behoove Ryan to move him this summer so that the team can move forward with Sano at the hot corner and allow their outfielders to play in the outfield.

    Plouffe's numbers this year aren't going to spark a market frenzy, obviously. His .652 OPS ranks below 20 of 22 qualified MLB third basemen. Hampered by a couple of different ailments, he has managed only three home runs and five walks in 37 games. His strengths have not played up.

    But he does have strengths, and a track record, that will be valued by clubs with postseason aspirations. Plouffe has hit 74 home runs over the past four seasons and has developed into a fine defender. The fact that his contractual commitment doesn't extend beyond 2016 would be appealing to a team strictly seeking a rental at third base for a World Series run.

    Incidentally, the Royals and Mets, two squads that are looking to return to repeat as league champs, are both seeking just that. Kansas City's Mike Moustakas will miss the rest of the season with an ACL tear. New York's David Wright is expected to be sidelined until August or September, at least, by a herniated disc in his neck. Both of these developments have arisen within the past two weeks.

    Plouffe is a clear upgrade over the in-house replacement options for either team. The Twins have the luxury of making him immediately available. In fact, pulling off a deal sooner than later would benefit them by providing salary relief and allowing Sano to return to third base immediately when he comes off the DL.

    The return for three-plus months of Plouffe won't be much – maybe a low-level prospect or two – but something is better than nothing, which is what the Twins get if they non-tender the 29-year-old during the offseason.

    Nick is a co-founder of Twins Daily who's been writing about the team for more than 15 years.
    Follow Nick Nelson on Twitter: NickNelsonMN

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    Featured Comments

    Mike Sixel

    Mike Sixel 55,417

  • Old-Timey Member

    • Posted

    There are two potential problems with that sort of sentiment.

     

    The first is that it appears to set the bar for Twins front office management at the somewhat disappointingly low level of 'No dumber than the average fan'.

     

    The second is that in a case of the fan base being generally right when the FO is wrong, the flip side of that sentiment often turns into some version of 'We don't have access to all the information the front office does, so we're not qualified to second-guess'.

     

    In a way, though, guess it balances out. The first issue more or less dooms the Twins to futility, and the second part sort of disqualifies us from having an opinion about that doom in the first place.

    Where is the love button?

    CampQ

    CampQ 203

  • Verified Member

    • Posted

    Valencia has slugged over .500 every year since leaving the Twins, with the exception of his age 29 season split between franchises.

     

    He's nothing like a David Ortiz - level gaffe, but he's also not a free pass for the Twins' Way either. They let him go for essentially nothing while they were among the worst teams in baseball.

     

    And just to be clear, I'm infinitely more concerned about the Twins not having a system in place to extract value from a Danny Valencia during a 90 loss season than I am about the Twins not having Danny Valencia.

    Actially in '12 he slugged .299 and in '14 he slugged .371. '13 and '15 were good seasons.

     

    I do agree with your larger point

    alarp33

    alarp33 2,765

  • Provisional Member

    • Posted

     

    Actially in '12 he slugged .299 and in '14 he slugged .371. '13 and '15 were good seasons.

    I do agree with your larger point

     

    Valencia has slugged over .500 every year since leaving the Twins, with the exception of his age 29 season split between franchises.

     

    He played with the Twins in 2012, and 2014 was the exception he made.  

    Otto von Ballpark

    Otto von Ballpark 20,386

  • Old-Timey Member

    • Posted

     

    Thought it might be worth pointing out that a week ago MLB Trade Rumors published a list of 10 current trade candidates and had Plouffe at #8 (as well as Abad at #10.)

     

    This opinion doesn't represent "the industry," and doesn't necessarily mean that the Twins would get a lot for him, but it does seem that people outside the fan/homer sphere think there's some trade value there.

    That list isn't all about trade "value" -- it's also about a likelihood to deal.  The Twins should undeniably be a seller, and Plouffe could be in line for a nontender this winter or an unpalatable arbitration award.  Those are probably the bigger factors in his ranking than his actual trade value.

    mnfireman

    mnfireman 4,187

  • Verified Member

    • Posted

    "A day late and a dollar short".....sums up the Twins dealings (or lack thereof) with Plouffe and Dozier. Except it is a year late, well 56 games late and million$ short. The only way to get any return is to package them, either individually or together, with Nolasco, Hughes and Jepson, and maybe even Ervin Santana (though I think he is a better rebound candidate than the other 5).Then bring on the kiddie parade and let them take their lumps (can't play too much worse than .286 baseball with the youngster's and I won't get so p****d off about veteran's giving the games away). 

    alarp33

    alarp33 2,765

  • Provisional Member

    • Posted

     

    . The only way to get any return is to package them, either individually or together, with Nolasco, Hughes and Jepson, and maybe even Ervin Santana (though I think he is a better rebound candidate than the other 5).

     

    Packaging under-performing vets with Bad pitchers making way too much money does not increase trade value. It makes those under-performing vets untradeable.  

    LaBombo

    LaBombo 14,541

  • Verified Member

    • Posted (edited)

     

    The Twins were in good company in cutting Valencia.  Boston, Baltimore, Kansas City and Toronto always dropped him. 

    The Blue Jays waived him during a 93 win division championship season,  having resigned themselves to AL MVP Josh Donaldson as their 3B.   No other team has waived Valencia or let him walk.  

     

    With the exception of his four week August stay at Boston's Tudor Wharf Residence Inn,  all of Valencia's production after the Twins has been for winners.   The Twins were the only other loser to move him,  and did so in the middle of 4 consecutive 90+ loss stinkbombs.

     

    Once again,   and I can't emphasize this enough,   Danny Valencia isn't the problem.    He's a minor symptom of the problem,   which is that over the past 5 years the Twins have often come perilously close to not being able to differentiate between a ballplayer and a ficus plant.

    Edited by LaBombo
    Circus Boy

    Circus Boy 2,494

  • Verified Member

    • Posted

     

    Trade him already. 

     

    Somehow the Twins value their assets so far above the market assessment.  So far that they are the worst team in the league.

     

    Think about it... the Twins can't trade their young talent because they are on the verge of being so good.  And, they can't trade their veterans because they are the glue that holds the team together and won't get fair market value.

     

    Meanwhile, the Twins and their players, young or old, are just plain lousy.

     

    Hello?  No one values the Twins players because they are on a lousy team and underperform and aren't worth anything -- in Plouffe's case, $7M, is a lot of clams.

     

    Trade him for a bag of fries.  Anything!

     

    At least a large size, though.

    DocBauer

    DocBauer 22,475

  • Old-Timey Member

    • Posted

    One more cliche to add to the mix..."addition by subtraction". At this point doubling down on a bad decision in an attempt to get "perceived value" for Plouffe is hubris. Ditch him already. On another note, I am curious and mildly hopeful that R. Grossman turns into a serviceable starter. He has an excellent pedigree in that he was once viewed as a good prospect and may be a late bloomer. It has been awhile since Shane Mack and we are due for a success story of such ilk. (Yes, I know Mack was a rule 5). I realize the probable outcome for Grossman is likely something much less.

    I find Grossman to be an interesting, somewhat undervalued story at this point. And I wrote about him a few weeks ago in another thread. I didn't do extensive research on him so I'm not sure how high he has ever ranked as a prospect. But he is a switch hitter with a decent frame. He is no big power threat or speed demon, but he has shown pop and decent power at times, and had double digit SB most years. His career milb triple slash is: .271/ .379/ .392. Nothing spectacular, but solid.

     

    Thus far, 16 games I believe, still a SSS, but his defense has looked solid and he hasn't flailed away or looked over matched at the plate. While I'm sure his current production is in no way sustainable, 12 BB against 12 SO is encouraging.

     

    I'm not saying we got a star or steal here, but he's young enough with enough ability that we may have uncovered a useful player off the bench, or maybe, who knows, a solid, all around functional 3rd OF. Bit of a stretch maybe, but there might be something to work with here.

    Mr. Brooks

    Mr. Brooks 7,174

  • Verified Member

    • Posted

    The reason I'd want to trade Park is not because I don't like him, but because I don't think we'll be ready to compete during his productive years.

     

    I know most of the board sees this year as a painful speed bump that we'll be past soon, but I just don't agree.

     

    I think this team is still 3+ years away from even considering contention.

     

    We only have 1 starting pitcher above A ball ( aside from maybe Kohl Stewart and his 1 AA start) that has a chance to be anything better than league average, and he's scuffling with control at AAA right now.

     

    That's great that we have Buxton and Sano and Kepler and Polanco, but until Jay and Gonsalves and Stewart get closer to the big leagues our pitching staff has no chance to compete in this league, none.

    Thrylos

    Thrylos 8,325

  • Old-Timey Member

    • Posted

     

    Thought it might be worth pointing out that a week ago MLB Trade Rumors published a list of 10 current trade candidates and had Plouffe at #8 (as well as Abad at #10.)

     

    This opinion doesn't represent "the industry," and doesn't necessarily mean that the Twins would get a lot for him, but it does seem that people outside the fan/homer sphere think there's some trade value there.

     

    That opinion was that of Jeff Todd who wrote that stuff.  One guy's opinion.

    Kwak

    Kwak 1,440

  • Verified Member

    • Posted

    First, with both Escobar and Sano on the DL makes dumpind Plouffe for "fries" stupid--somebody actually useful would be a different story. Second, there is no reason to rush either Escobar or Sano back to the lineup. The Twins would be better off  losing as often as possible and keeping those two in hot tubs so that they are completely healed. Third, Plouffe can be traded as soon as a replacement IF is found (signed) to takeover--and he should net far more than what the Twins received (zip) from eliminating Valencia back in the day. It is becoming apparent that Sano doesn't belong in the field--anywhere. Evidence: Frank Thomas, Ortiz, Fielder. Sano has displayed an uncanny ability to pull a hamstring while on the bases, there is no need to give him further opportunities. Sano will always be subpar in the field, simply keep him at DH and put an end to experimenting. Last, consider trading Sano. Face it, the Twins needs are HUGE--starting pitching, 3B, OF, bullpen. A trade might fetch solutions to many problems--and for a guy who is a defensive liability. It is also likely Sano is never signed by the Twins to the monster contract anyway. It's likely better to do it now before the rest of baseball decides the Twins will lose him anyway.

    tobi0040

    tobi0040 4,125

  • Verified Member

    • Posted

    First, with both Escobar and Sano on the DL makes dumpind Plouffe for "fries" stupid--somebody actually useful would be a different story. Second, there is no reason to rush either Escobar or Sano back to the lineup. The Twins would be better off losing as often as possible and keeping those two in hot tubs so that they are completely healed. Third, Plouffe can be traded as soon as a replacement IF is found (signed) to takeover--and he should net far more than what the Twins received (zip) from eliminating Valencia back in the day. It is becoming apparent that Sano doesn't belong in the field--anywhere. Evidence: Frank Thomas, Ortiz, Fielder. Sano has displayed an uncanny ability to pull a hamstring while on the bases, there is no need to give him further opportunities. Sano will always be subpar in the field, simply keep him at DH and put an end to experimenting. Last, consider trading Sano. Face it, the Twins needs are HUGE--starting pitching, 3B, OF, bullpen. A trade might fetch solutions to many problems--and for a guy who is a defensive liability. It is also likely Sano is never signed by the Twins to the monster contract anyway. It's likely better to do it now before the rest of baseball decides the Twins will lose him anyway.

    If Sano does not sign a longer deal in the next 12 months, I think you have to strongly consider it. It is the only way to get a coup type return. Billy Bean figured this out years ago.

     

    The longer you wait, the more money he has in his pocket and less time before the big contract

    DocBauer

    DocBauer 22,475

  • Old-Timey Member

    • Posted

    I know it's become an old arguement, but if we fast forward a bit and DO move Plouffe to the Mets, the Royals, whoever, and Sano is back at 3rd where he belongs, I'd still like to audition Mauer and/or Park in the OF somewhere.

     

    And I'm not talking about repeating the same issue as playing Sano out of place. I'm just talking about future roster construction and versatiliy.

     

    Park shows some real potential as a hitter, while battling to learn the ML game. Not a surprise there. But he's showing potential, and has less than a half season thus far. (To those who already are sour on him or think he should be moved) And I find him to be a quality defensive 1B. Mauer seemingly HAS rebounded from the past two years. And he's not going anywhere.

     

    But while Buxton and Kepler should be counted on for 2/3 of the OF, that leaves one spot open. Rosario could still claim that 3rd spot. Grossman could be a nice role player. We still don't know for sure what we have in Arcia and he needs to play. There is hope for Walker, but he's got a ways to go yet. Palka could be a player. Maybe a defensive speedster like Granite will be the final piece.

     

    But for roster and lineup construction...and the possibility of Walker or Vargas providing a potential big bat as a DH, why not just see if Mauer/Park could provide even more roster flexability?

    CampQ

    CampQ 203

  • Verified Member

    • Posted

    The easy tell is that the ficus is much less likely to bunt without a sign.

    Unless it is listing heavily towards home plate. Then it always bunts without a sign.

     

    Your ficus plant reminded me of a surely spurious story about Plato. For the sake of argument with some precocious Athenian youths Plato defined man as a featherless biped. A few days later Diogenes the Cynic walked through the Agora holding a plucked chicken.

    SwainZag

    SwainZag 7,018

  • Community Moderator

    • Posted

     

    First, with both Escobar and Sano on the DL makes dumpind Plouffe for "fries" stupid--somebody actually useful would be a different story. Second, there is no reason to rush either Escobar or Sano back to the lineup. The Twins would be better off  losing as often as possible and keeping those two in hot tubs so that they are completely healed. Third, Plouffe can be traded as soon as a replacement IF is found (signed) to takeover--and he should net far more than what the Twins received (zip) from eliminating Valencia back in the day. It is becoming apparent that Sano doesn't belong in the field--anywhere. Evidence: Frank Thomas, Ortiz, Fielder. Sano has displayed an uncanny ability to pull a hamstring while on the bases, there is no need to give him further opportunities. Sano will always be subpar in the field, simply keep him at DH and put an end to experimenting. Last, consider trading Sano. Face it, the Twins needs are HUGE--starting pitching, 3B, OF, bullpen. A trade might fetch solutions to many problems--and for a guy who is a defensive liability. It is also likely Sano is never signed by the Twins to the monster contract anyway. It's likely better to do it now before the rest of baseball decides the Twins will lose him anyway.

     

    You had me until you suggested the Twins trade Sano.  

    nicksaviking

    nicksaviking 38,239

  • Community Moderator

    • Posted

     

    First, with both Escobar and Sano on the DL makes dumpind Plouffe for "fries" stupid--somebody actually useful would be a different story. Second, there is no reason to rush either Escobar or Sano back to the lineup. The Twins would be better off  losing as often as possible and keeping those two in hot tubs so that they are completely healed. Third, Plouffe can be traded as soon as a replacement IF is found (signed) to takeover.

     

    I'd think Polanco is ready to be given a fair shot.

     

    The urgency really isn't about getting a good return for Plouffe, the urgency is to move guys who might not be movable once the A's, Angels, Yankees, Tigers, Brewers, Phillies, Rockies and other teams also decide they will not compete this year.

     

    The Twins already know they're sellers.

    Otto von Ballpark

    Otto von Ballpark 20,386

  • Old-Timey Member

    • Posted

    I'd think Polanco is ready to be given a fair shot.

     

    The urgency really isn't about getting a good return for Plouffe, the urgency is to move guys who might not be movable once the A's, Angels, Yankees, Tigers, Brewers, Phillies, Rockies and other teams also decide they will not compete this year.

     

    The Twins already know they're sellers.

    Problem is, by the same token, most teams are not yet committed to being buyers. We saw the steep price the Padres paid to get out ahead of the market with Shields.

    nicksaviking

    nicksaviking 38,239

  • Community Moderator

    • Posted

     

    Problem is, by the same token, most teams are not yet committed to being buyers. We saw the steep price the Padres paid to get out ahead of the market with Shields.

     

    I'd do the same in a heartbeat to get out from under Hughes or Nolasco.

     

    Most teams aren't sure about being buyers, but seeing as the Royals and Mets were in the WS last year and wish to do so again, you'd have to assume they are. I'd give teams a discount on the return to get some of these guys off the books now simply to ensure they are off the books by the end of the year.



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