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    Real Deal: What Would It Take To Get J.T. Realmuto?


    Nick Nelson

    As the trade deadline approaches, there's a rightful focus on 'sell' moves the Minnesota Twins should be pursuing.

    But I would submit there's another, very different sort of swap that Minnesota should be plotting toward.

    By finding a way to acquire star catcher J.T. Realmuto from Miami, the Twins would be addressing their greatest organizational weakness with authority, while also reinforcing the expectation of a short-term return to contention.

    Trading for Realmuto wouldn't be so much a buy move for the second half as a buy move for 2019, 2020, and beyond.

    The reason to do it now is that if they don't, the Twins might miss their chance.

    Image courtesy of Amber Searles, USA Today

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    This season, the Twins have gotten a lowly .581 OPS from the catcher position, ranking as one of the worst in the majors. But worse even are the Washington Nationals, who have openly tried to upgrade behind the plate. They made a big push for Realmuto during the offseason as Miami held its firesale, but ultimately came up short.

    Washington's continuing interest in the 27-year-old, who has improved every year in the majors and currently sports a .317/.368/.551 slash line for the Marlins, is well known. But during a late-June radio interview, Nats GM Mike Rizzo was candid in his stance.

    “They’ve got a great player in Realmuto,” said Rizzo. “They’re not going to sell him cheap. We know what the return has to be on Realmuto, and we’re not willing to meet that price."

    According to offseason reports and rumors, the Marlins refused to make a deal that didn't include at least one of Victor Robles or Juan Soto. To put that in some context, Robles and Soto ranked No. 1 and No. 2 on Baseball America's list of top Nationals prospects, compiled last November, and the two outfielders placed No. 7 and No. 56 on BA's 2018 preseason list. Soto is now already up in the majors and raking at age 19.

    So, clearly the Marlins aren't going to settle for anything less than at least one premier, top-end prospect at the front of a Realmuto package. This means that for Minnesota, the conversation would need to start with Royce Lewis, currently 10th in BA's live rankings, or Alex Kirilloff, whose monster season in A-ball has rocketed him up to No. 35.

    From my view, Lewis is off the table. You just don't trade a player like him away. But pretty much anyone else in the organization should be fair game, including Kirilloff. Could the Twins build a package around the young slugger that gets it done? Should they?

    Hypothesizing a Prospect Package for Realmuto

    One can envision Kirilloff striking Miami's fancy as the headliner in an offer for Realmuto – a worthy fallback after they failed to land Robles or Soto. The Marlins system is short on impact bats and Kirilloff has quickly established himself as one of the best in the minors. His sweet left-handed swing draws comparisons to Christian Yelich, who himself enjoyed five stellar seasons with the Fish before being shipped out during the aforementioned offseason firesale.

    Mired in last place, the Marlins don't really have any hopes of returning to contention within the next couple of seasons, and Realmuto is due for free agency after 2020. Around that same time, Kirilloff figures to be breaking into the big leagues, so the logic behind such a swap from their perspective is easy enough to see.

    From Minnesota's end, losing Kirilloff would obviously hurt. He's a key piece in their system, especially as offensive production has taken a lackluster turn for the big-league club. But Realmuto's impact in that regard would be enormous, with his polished catching skills and middle-of-the-order bat turning a crucial position from major liability to resounding strength.

    And, for whatever it's worth, the Twins might have just found themselves another Kirilloff. First-round draft pick Trevor Larnach, who signed last week after starring for Oregon State in the College World Series, has a very similar profile: lefty-swinging, power-hitting corner outfielder, and he'll slot in at just about the same stage of development. It is of course unlikely he'll reach the same level of esteem as Kirilloff, but the Twins at least wouldn't be opening a huge void.

    So, what else needs to be added alongside Kirilloff to make this happen? I suspect Miami would command another prospect in Minnesota's top tier – perhaps a Nick Gordon or Stephen Gonsalves. Personally I would be reluctantly willing to part with either. But even that might not get it done.

    Emerging flamethrower Brusdar Graterol, or the more advanced and MLB-ready Fernando Romero, are names that really could get their attention, and while giving either up in addition to Kirilloff would be excruciatingly painful, I think I do it if it gets me two years of Realmuto with a chance to nail down a longer deal. And I might add another prospect from the Twins' Top 10 or 15, too.

    "The only way to be sustainable over time is to build up the minor league system. That is our focus," said Marlins CEO Derek Jeter during a town hall meeting with fans in December. "I don't expect you to be happy."

    Dealing Realmuto for a package of prospects headlined by Kirilloff and, say, Graterol might not make Miami fans happy, but it would certainly align within the teardown strategy Jeter was defending. The franchise would add at least two heralded talents with enormous upside while shaving around $6 million off the 2019 payroll.

    I'll admit, the timing would be a little weird.

    Why Now?

    It's not often you see an avowed seller go and flip multiple top prospects for a 27-year-old All-Star at the trade deadline. In fact, I'm not sure it has ever happened. But now is a time for creative, outside-the-box thinking.

    The Twins – maintaining a focus on short-term contention – aren't your typical deadline seller.

    Realmuto – tied for second in the National League in WAR and under affordable team control for multiple years – isn't your typical deadline target.

    As mentioned earlier, one aspect of the rationale here is beating others to the punch. Realmuto is a highly coveted asset and the Marlins are sure to have numerous callers this month. One can argue that it's more logical for Minnesota to wait until the offseason before engaging in these discussions, escaping the leverage dynamics inherent to the deadline, but that isn't necessarily a luxury they can afford.

    There are also some concrete benefits to pulling the trigger now. Realmuto would have the final two months to acclimate and gain familiarity with the Twins pitching staff, which figures to largely carry over in 2019. There's real value in that for a catcher.

    And also, Realmuto is just a hell of a player. You could hardly make a more impactful addition at the trade deadline. To whatever extent the Twins remain attached to their nearly invisible postseason hopes, he'd be a huge boost.

    At the very least, it sends a good message to players and fans: Things haven't gone to plan, but we're still serious about winning, and now.

    This kind of move would allow them to pursue that goal vigorously while lessening their reliance on Byron Buxton and Miguel Sano to lead the charge. It'd be a major shakeup and strategic pivot for the front office, but I believe such measures are warranted given this current state of affairs.

    What do you think? What would it take to pry Realmuto from the Marlins, and would you be willing to do it?

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    High level arms are going to take this team further than an elite catcher. The Twins can get by with an average catcher and good to elite position players; they aren't going anywhere in the postseason without multiple high end arms. This organization has shown no desire to add those types of pitchers in FA so growing it is our only hope at the moment. That doesn't mean Romero or Graterol will be top of the rotation guys but right now they're the best shot this team has at building a rotation that won't be bounced in a divisional round matchup. 

     

    The question is whether what you're giving up is worth potentially only 2 years of service. 

    The flip side of this is that nothing is more volatile than high-upside, young, unproven pitching prospects, and that a team should always jump at a change to exchange young pitching for elite position players. For example, here are the top 10 ranked pitching prospects from 2015:

    Lucas Giolito

    Julio Urias

    Tyler Glasnow

    Steven Matz

    Alex Reyes

    Sean Newcomb

    Jose Berrios

    Jose De Leon

    Jon Gray

    Robert Stephenson

     

    And personally, if you are worried about winning in the post-season, create an elite bullpen.

     

    The flip side of this is that nothing is more volatile than high-upside, young, unproven pitching prospects, and that a team should always jump at a change to exchange young pitching for elite position players. For example, here are the top 10 ranked pitching prospects from 2015:

    Lucas Giolito

    Julio Urias

    Tyler Glasnow

    Steven Matz

    Alex Reyes

    Sean Newcomb

    Jose Berrios

    Jose De Leon

    Jon Gray

    Robert Stephenson

     

    And personally, if you are worried about winning in the post-season, create an elite bullpen.

    I would wager that lesser touted arms are even more volatile, which is to say that not all prospects aren't created equally. 

     

    A shutdown bullpen is nice, but you need a starting staff capable of getting you through a 162 game season + at least 5-6 innings per playoff appearance. We've seen firsthand how subpar starting rotations can drag a bullpen down. 

    Edited by KirbyDome89

    I've been thinking about this way too much today, but here is where I'm at with this concept:

     

    Should the Twins deal for Realmuto?

     

    No. There is too much uncertainty around Buxton and Sano. Too much of the future success (at least over the next two seasons) relies on them meeting expectations. In order to take the leap into the upper echelon of the league, they need to add more elite players. I get that. But decent seasons from Buxton and Sano (and Polanco) should be enough to put the team into position to be buyer at next season's deadline.

     

    High level arms are going to take this team further than an elite catcher. The Twins can get by with an average catcher and good to elite position players; they aren't going anywhere in the postseason without multiple high end arms. This organization has shown no desire to add those types of pitchers in FA so growing it is our only hope at the moment. That doesn't mean Romero or Graterol will be top of the rotation guys but right now they're the best shot this team has at building a rotation that won't be bounced in a divisional round matchup. 

     

    The question is whether what you're giving up is worth potentially only 2 years of service. 

     

    They've shown no desire to add elite position players in FA or trades either....so I'm not sure how that matters.

     

    I'll ask again, where do people expect this team to get A LOT better in the next two years if you won't trade for players?

    IMO the sticking point here is the price to be paid for a potential short term tenure.

     

    1) Not all prospects are created equally. Yes, they’re volatile, but Kiriloff, Lewis, and/or Romero have a much better chance of becoming productive major league players than even a 3-4th round pick this year. These guys aren’t locks, no prospects are, but too often players with varied skill sets across all levels of the minors are all grouped together as lottery tickets.

     

    2) The question isn’t whether the Twins should make the move because they’re uncertain of their ability to contend in the next two years. I agree that the time to contend is supposed to be now. The goal shouldn’t be pushing the window back. If we’re talking 2020 and beyond there’s a good chance most of the current core is gone, and we’re looking at once again moving the goalposts for being competitive. Teams can, and should, be building be collecting pieces leading up to, and during their window of contention.

     

    3) Even though this team is supposed to be contending, and adding Realmuto certainly helps, there is a point where the price becomes too great. Like I said, if the Twins were able to work out an extension, or I believed they would be willing to win the bid for him in FA then I can stomach what they’d give up. If he’s only here for 2 years then making the move for him, especially given the situation with Buxton and Sano, seems like a bigger gamble than holding onto minor league talent.

    Edited by KirbyDome89

     

    If the Twins are as serious about contending as they say they are, they have to show the willingness to do whatever it takes to acquire Realmuto and sign Machado for the 2019 season, no excuses.


    I’m sorry, but we shouldn’t expect anything less than a lineup like this next year.


    CF- Bryce Harper
    C- J.T. Realmuto
    SS- Manny Machado
    LF- Eddie Rosario
    3rd- Eduardo Escobar
    1st- Kennys Vargas (Maybe Hanley Ramirez?)
    DH- Mitch Garver
    2nd- Jorge Polanco
    RF- Max Kepler

     

    FTFY

    Edited by Thrylos

     

    They've shown no desire to add elite position players in FA or trades either....so I'm not sure how that matters.

     

    I'll ask again, where do people expect this team to get A LOT better in the next two years if you won't trade for players?

    I'm not advocating that they don't look to trade for talent. I'm saying the price they'll ultimately have to pay seems a bit high for only 2 years of said talent. 

     

    He's, by far, the best catcher in baseball for one. And with the position scarcity I can't imagine him being more valuable than now.

    I would actually argue for Salvy Perez but that's more picking apples as opposed to oranges. Can't actually disagree with your point. Carry on.

     

    If we're "not in a window," why do we care if we have control of "core players" through 2021-22?

     

    Would it be because...we're "in a window?"

     

    Or would it be that Lewis/Graterol/Gordon/Kiriloff et al aren't "core players" at all.

     

    They're prospects.

    If you define a window as a possibility of winning the Central, yes, I would say there is a possibility in the next couple of years. If a window means being an actual contender, no, we are not in a window until the many things that need to get addressed are improved. We would be 20 games back in the east or west. Competing with the real contenders would require considerably better starting pitching, an overhaul of the bullpen, replacing Dozier at 2B, replacing Mauer at 1B, not to mention any hope of contending would require Buxton and Sano to both sustain a level of play they have shown at times but they have not shown a glimpse of that play this year. Oh and catcher too.

     

    Trading long-term assets in order to have Realmuto for 2019-20 is a horrendously poor plan. If the team does not sort all of these problems you have given away the guys most likely to help the team when this does get sorted out. If it does somehow all go our way .... FANTASTIC, there will always be players that can be added by trading away great prospects.  At least at that point we will know with much greater precision what we need to add.

     

    The cubs traded away Samardzija when they were on the brink. Why, because 6 years of Russel is waaaay better when you have not quite arrived but are expecting to contend soon. I bet Arizona wish they had not traded away Swanson before they were ready. Short-term focus is a good way to really suck long-term.

     

     

     

    The same Salvy Perez with a .255 obp this year?

    If you mean the Salvy Perez who is just as good historically with his bat and also has 28 defensive runs saved over his career as opposed to Realmuto's negative 14drs (that's a 42 run difference btw) then yeah. I think I could argue that Perez is the better all around catcher. If we're just pulling at a down year to discuss then let's go to 2014 for Realmuto. Only had a 267obp and 611ops that year. This season is the first time he's ever had an OPS over 800 and we're only half way home. There are such things as slumps. Also, Salvy is 28. Realmuto is 27. Not like we're saving much on age here.

     

    If you define a window as a possibility of winning the Central, yes, I would say there is a possibility in the next couple of years. If a window means being an actual contender, no, we are not in a window until the many things that need to get addressed are improved. We would be 20 games back in the east or west. Competing with the real contenders would require considerably better starting pitching, an overhaul of the bullpen, replacing Dozier at 2B, replacing Mauer at 1B, not to mention any hope of contending would require Buxton and Sano to both sustain a level of play they have shown at times but they have not shown a glimpse of that play this year. Oh and catcher too.

     

    Trading long-term assets in order to have Realmuto for 2019-20 is a horrendously poor plan. If the team does not sort all of these problems you have given away the guys most likely to help the team when this does get sorted out. If it does somehow all go our way .... FANTASTIC, there will always be players that can be added by trading away great prospects.  At least at that point we will know with much greater precision what we need to add.

     

    The cubs traded away Samardzija when they were on the brink. Why, because 6 years of Russel is waaaay better when you have not quite arrived but are expecting to contend soon. I bet Arizona wish they had not traded away Swanson before they were ready. Short-term focus is a good way to really suck long-term.

     

    only worrying about the future is a good way not to ever have a present, also. 

     

    I don't think anyone is saying sell the whole farm. I don't think anyone is saying sign every FA, or trade for a guy that is only here this year.

     

    I'd guess that once they "know" if Buxton and Sano are good, no 2.5 year elite player will be available in the time that they "know" that. So, you are then trading real assets for half a year, most likely, and we'll get to read about how that's a terrible idea. Which I know, because I've read that here over and over.

     

    OK, I got a chance to glance through the previous comments. I think the problem is a lot of people are thinking the options are either you sell the farm for Realmuto or you're stuck with Castro/Garver/Wilson.

     

    The Twins should have plenty of payroll room to go out and sign a Yasmani Grandal or a Wilson Ramos this offseason. Are they as good as Realmuto? No, but they also wouldn't cost you any prospects. Plus, here are their numbers over the past two seasons combined:

     

    Realmuto .291/.341/.484, .352 wOBA, 120 wRC+

    Grandal .246/.320/.456, .332 wOBA, 108 wRC+

    Ramos .278/.319/.461, .331 wOBA, 111 wRC+

     

    And according to Baseball Prospectus' Fielding Runs Above Average, Grandal is the best defensive catcher in baseball this season at +10.9. Realmuto is at +2.2 and Ramos right at average, 0.0.

    I'd be ok with that approach, too.

     

    They've shown no desire to add elite position players in FA or trades either....so I'm not sure how that matters.

     

    I'll ask again, where do people expect this team to get A LOT better in the next two years if you won't trade for players?

    I think they get a lot better if Buxton, Sano and Polanco are merely league-average players next year. League average isn't a huge bar to reach - they have all be better than that in the past. Doing some hand-wavy, back-of-the-envelope calculations, just reaching that level would improve this teams run differential by ~40 runs, give or take. And let's say that is 4 wins. Now the team is 44-44 with a +20 run differential. Obviously, they didn't manage that this year, and there are no guarantees. But they can get A LOT better with the players they have. 

     

    And this doesn't even factor in the their 5-16 record in 1-run games. 

    If you mean the Salvy Perez who is just as good historically with his bat and also has 28 defensive runs saved over his career as opposed to Realmuto's negative 14drs (that's a 42 run difference btw) then yeah. I think I could argue that Perez is the better all around catcher. If we're just pulling at a down year to discuss then let's go to 2014 for Realmuto. Only had a 267obp and 611ops that year. This season is the first time he's ever had an OPS over 800 and we're only half way home. There are such things as slumps. Also, Salvy is 28. Realmuto is 27. Not like we're saving much on age here.

    Huh? 2014 was Realmuto’s rookie year and he played 11 games and had 29 at bats. That’s your argument that everyone has a down year?

     

    Perez has had an OPS+ higher than 91 1 time in the past 5 seasons. He’s not even in the conversation for best catcher in baseball

     

    “Just as good historically with bat”. Perez has a career 97 OPS+, Realmuto is at 112

    Edited by alarp33

     

    Huh? 2014 was Realmuto’s rookie year and he played 11 games and had 29 at bats. That’s your argument that everyone has a down year?

    Perez has had an OPS+ higher than 91 1 time in the past 5 seasons. He’s not even in the conversation for best catcher in baseball

    “Just as good historically with bat”. Perez has a career 97 OPS+, Realmuto is at 111

    You've got your opinion I've got mine. My initial post seemed pretty innocuous for you to go straight to terminator mode

     

    You've got your opinion I've got mine. My initial post seemed pretty innocuous for you to go straight to terminator mode

     

    You are certainly entitled to your opinion, I'm just curious how you arrived at Perez. He's 12th in War (900 or more PA) at catcher in the past 3 years, so I wouldn't have even considered him part of the conversation

     

    ramos is 30 and Grandal 29....

     

    Are people good giving three year deals to catchers over 30 at the beginning of the contract, at 10-20MM per year?

     

    The team is looking at a 45M payroll next year. I think it's going to be pretty difficult to take on a new contract that's going to end up being a burden.

     

    The team is looking at a 45M payroll next year. I think it's going to be pretty difficult to take on a new contract that's going to end up being a burden.

     

    money sure, but people here all the time say no to players that age....that's why I'm asking the question.

     

    I would....not sure everyone would be.

     

    money sure, but people here all the time say no to players that age....that's why I'm asking the question.

     

    I would....not sure everyone would be.

     

    I don't know that there is anyone here who has said never to sign a 30 year old to a 3 year deal. 

     

    I'm sure there are plenty (me included) who would not give either Ramos or Grandal more than 3 years. 

     

    The team is looking at a 45M payroll next year. I think it's going to be pretty difficult to take on a new contract that's going to end up being a burden.

    I know the $45M number has been used quite a bit here and there, but baseball reference is projecting ~$75M for 2019 if one includes guaranteed, arbitration and league-minimum salaries. https://www.baseball-reference.com/teams/MIN/minnesota-twins-salaries-and-contracts.shtml

    Obviously some wiggle room with arbitration costs, but I think $45M is a slightly misleading baseline.

     

    You are certainly entitled to your opinion, I'm just curious how you arrived at Perez. He's 12th in War (900 or more PA) at catcher in the past 3 years, so I wouldn't have even considered him part of the conversation

    I want a catcher to at least break even when it comes to costing your team runs defensively. This season Realmuto has the exact same number of defensive runs saved as Bobby Wilson.... In 31 more games. I'm not sure I want more Bobby Wilson-esque defense. I never said you couldn't argue that Realmuto is the best catcher in the league. I don't think he is, but you can argue it. Just as I can do the same with Perez and you don't have to agree with it. Until Realmuto shows that he's just as good behind the plate as he is in the batters box I'm going to have to take a hard pass on crowning him best catcher in the league.

     

     

     

    OK, I got a chance to glance through the previous comments. I think the problem is a lot of people are thinking the options are either you sell the farm for Realmuto or you're stuck with Castro/Garver/Wilson.

     

    The Twins should have plenty of payroll room to go out and sign a Yasmani Grandal or a Wilson Ramos this offseason. Are they as good as Realmuto? No, but they also wouldn't cost you any prospects. Plus, here are their numbers over the past two seasons combined:

     

    Realmuto .291/.341/.484, .352 wOBA, 120 wRC+

    Grandal .246/.320/.456, .332 wOBA, 108 wRC+

    Ramos .278/.319/.461, .331 wOBA, 111 wRC+

     

    And according to Baseball Prospectus' Fielding Runs Above Average, Grandal is the best defensive catcher in baseball this season at +10.9. Realmuto is at +2.2 and Ramos right at average, 0.0.

    This makes faaaaar more sense to me, especially given we have 60M+ in payroll coming off the books. 1B is another chance in FA to upgrade our offense. The rest of the available payroll budget could get spent on SP and BP.

    Edited by Major Leauge Ready

     

    I want a catcher to at least break even when it comes to costing your team runs defensively. This season Realmuto has the exact same number of defensive runs saved as Bobby Wilson.... In 31 more games. I'm not sure I want more Bobby Wilson-esque defense. I never said you couldn't argue that Realmuto is the best catcher in the league. I don't think he is, but you can argue it. Just as I can do the same with Perez and you don't have to agree with it. Until Realmuto shows that he's just as good behind the plate as he is in the batters box I'm going to have to take a hard pass on crowning him best catcher in the league.

     

    But Salvador Perez is not even the best defensive C in baseball? He was 8th in DRS last season. And he can't hit

     

    This makes faaaaar more sense to me, especially given we have 60M+ in payroll coming off the books. 1B is another chance in FA to upgrade our offense. The rest of the available payroll budget could get spent on SP and BP.

     

    Have you looked at the FA list for 1B and SP? Good luck with that.

     

    https://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2016/12/2018-19-mlb-free-agents.html

    But Salvador Perez is not even the best defensive C in baseball? He was 8th in DRS last season. And he can't hit

    I really don’t know what you’re looking for here. All I’m saying is that in my completely personal, not binding on anyone else opinion, I believe Perez to be one of the best in baseball. You don’t have to agree. More importantly I don’t care. I do however apologize that such an innocuous statement got you so riled up. My bad. Moving on

     

    OK, I got a chance to glance through the previous comments. I think the problem is a lot of people are thinking the options are either you sell the farm for Realmuto or you're stuck with Castro/Garver/Wilson.

     

    The Twins should have plenty of payroll room to go out and sign a Yasmani Grandal or a Wilson Ramos this offseason. Are they as good as Realmuto? No, but they also wouldn't cost you any prospects. Plus, here are their numbers over the past two seasons combined:

     

    Realmuto .291/.341/.484, .352 wOBA, 120 wRC+

    Grandal .246/.320/.456, .332 wOBA, 108 wRC+

    Ramos .278/.319/.461, .331 wOBA, 111 wRC+

     

    And according to Baseball Prospectus' Fielding Runs Above Average, Grandal is the best defensive catcher in baseball this season at +10.9. Realmuto is at +2.2 and Ramos right at average, 0.0.

     

    Grandal was slumping so bad the second half of last year, that Barnes became the go to, and the hitter, up to and into the post season for most of the games. This year, Barnes can't buy a hit (around .200 all year), and Grandal is back, and hitting (albeit inconsistently... .313 thru April, .181 and .162 in May and June, and .429 in July ... so far). Castro was supposed to be so good defensively, and throwing people out, but man can he create some wild pitches that should have been blocked or caught, and framing rating has tanked. It is all so tenuous. 

    Edited by h2oface



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