Twins Outright Four Players

[Oldgoat_MN]

Interesting business. Thrylos was right, it appears. Shairon Martis was brought up basically so they could pay him a MLB minimum wage for a month.

 

Kinda hard not to like that.

 

[Oldgoat_MN]

Is that the baseball version of "In bed"?

 

Good news will come to you from far away... in AAA.

Your eyes will be opened to a world full of beauty... in AAA.

Your present plans are going to succeed... in AAA.

You are going to have some new clothes... in AAA.

 

You are going to be a star... in AAA.

[jokin]

Interesting business. Thrylos was right, it appears. Shairon Martis was brought up basically so they could pay him a MLB minimum wage for a month.

 

Kinda hard not to like that.

 

 

I would have liked a lot better that actual prospects got some of those innings Martis threw, put him on the roster as a service reward, but give the bulk of the reps to the guys who actually might be part of the solution, not the problem.

[Chance]

Is it so difficult to make roster moves without trying to be clever? This is a real question, not rhetorical. Is there a huge benefit to letting guys go in small groups throughout the offseason instead of just sitting in a room for 3 or 4 work days and say, "ok, these are the guys who have no future with this club. We may try and bring some back on minor league deals but if someone else scoops them up, there will be 20 other guys that can essentially give us the same thing (filler with no potential). We will outright/release/waiver them tomorrow. Good work everyone." Can this not happen or is it another unwritten baseball rule?

[Shane Wahl]

It is not surprising at all that Roenicke shares this fate. It's middle relief at best for this guy and the Twins system is full of replacements. FULL. How can anyone watching the minor leagues be surprised by that? Oliveros, Watts, Achter, and Guerra are clear replacements. This is obvious, again. Good grief.

[pierre75275]

Pressly or Hicks. Even tho I expect Mastro to be taken off the 40 man roster I would not be surprised if he would resign a minor league deal.

[Shane Wahl]

I would have liked a lot better that actual prospects got some of those innings Martis threw, put him on the roster as a service reward, but give the bulk of the reps to the guys who actually might be part of the solution, not the problem.

 

Yes. There is no reason that Martis got any innings, there. Aside from giving him some more money. Seriously. Trevor May was the choice there to get innings against big league batters. Full stop.

[Shane Wahl]

By the way, it is a major org. mistake to put Presley out there instead of Hicks. Hicks should be the starting CF and 7th or so right now except vs. lefties where he should bat FIRST in front of Dozier and then Mauer.

 

Alex Presley is like Mike Pelfrey in so many ways that I want to vomit.

 

Hicks needs to be there. Full stop. Presley as the fourth OF instead of Mastro is fine.

[jokin]

It is not surprising at all that Roenicke shares this fate. It's middle relief at best for this guy and the Twins system is full of replacements. FULL. How can anyone watching the minor leagues be surprised by that? Oliveros, Watts, Achter, and Guerra are clear replacements. This is obvious, again. Good grief.

 

And perhaps, Ibarra too. I am still scratching my head why both Ibarra and May weren't called up in September (and possibly Acther, as well).

[jokin]

By the way, it is a major org. mistake to put Presley out there instead of Hicks. Hicks should be the starting CF and 7th or so right now except vs. lefties where he should bat FIRST in front of Dozier and then Mauer.

 

Alex Presley is like Mike Pelfrey in so many ways that I want to vomit.

 

Hicks needs to be there. Full stop. Presley as the fourth OF instead of Mastro is fine.

 

Ryan has pretty much laid out the case for Presley to be the opening day starter in CF. Probably Arcia in LF and Doumit in RF. Hicks defied managment and chose to take the winter off, who knows when he gets his recall next year. Yet another set of reasons why I am fairly convinced that 2014 will be a 100-loss season.

[Shane Wahl]

And perhaps, Ibarra too. I am still scratching my head why both Ibarra and May werent' called up in September (and possibly Acther, as well).

 

Sorry, forgot about Ibarra. You are very right. I just forgot about him. The bullpen can ALWAYS be fine in this org. That is what my studies about prospect movement trends ALWAYS pointed out. Burton, Duensing, and Fien are easy trade pieces. There is NO reason not to trade all of them. Couple them with prospects or Willingham, Doumit, and Swarzak.

 

 

The return? One Sulbaranesque trade would be worth it, two whoa, three a damn gold mine.

[Seth Stohs]

I would have liked a lot better that actual prospects got some of those innings Martis threw, put him on the roster as a service reward, but give the bulk of the reps to the guys who actually might be part of the solution, not the problem.

 

That was clear from the moment they called him up.

 

And, which 'prospects' did you want to bring up?? There weren't prospects that were actually ready.

[Seth Stohs]

By the way, it is a major org. mistake to put Presley out there instead of Hicks. Hicks should be the starting CF and 7th or so right now except vs. lefties where he should bat FIRST in front of Dozier and then Mauer.

 

Alex Presley is like Mike Pelfrey in so many ways that I want to vomit.

 

Hicks needs to be there. Full stop. Presley as the fourth OF instead of Mastro is fine.

 

I think Hicks showed that he was not ready for the big leagues. If Thomas would not have been hurt earlier in the season, that move should have happened a month or two earlier. I like seeing young guys play, but watching them drowning is good for no one. I'd much prefer Thomas (or some replacement level guy) play in the short-term because it is better for Hicks in the long-term.

 

Alex Presley is solid. Not great. Probably a 4th OF, but a solid leadoff approach at the plate. He'll be around for a few years, again, likely as a backup once Hicks is ready.

[Shane Wahl]

Ryan has pretty much laid out the case for Presley to be the opening day starter in CF. Probably Arcia in LF and Doumit in RF. Hicks defied managment and chose to take the winter off, who knows when he gets his recall next year. Yet another set of reasons why I am fairly convinced that 2014 will be a 100-loss season.

 

Pardon the French:

 

Presley is a ****ing "catalyst type player." No he isn't. No. No. No. What an abomination of a move by this GM. He says "catalyst" and this manager does nothing but put him at the top of the order.

 

It is clear that the value in playing Hicks in CF and at 7/1 in the lineup with Dozier second against lefties (and 1st against righties somehow) outweighs ****ing around with another 4th OF thrust into the starting role. Clete Thomas was an embarrassment. I was appalled at the time. That he lasted tells you what you need to know about him.

[jokin]

That was clear from the moment they called him up.

 

And, which 'prospects' did you want to bring up?? There weren't prospects that were actually ready.

 

May, Ibarra, Achter.

[Seth Stohs]

Pardon the French:

 

Presley is a ****ing "catalyst type player." No he isn't. No. No. No. What an abomination of a move by this GM. He says "catalyst" and this manager does nothing but put him at the top of the order.

 

It is clear that the value in playing Hicks in CF and at 7/1 in the lineup with Dozier second against lefties (and 1st against righties somehow) outweighs ****ing around with another 4th OF thrust into the starting role. Clete Thomas was an embarrassment. I was appalled at the time. That he lasted tells you what you need to know about him.

 

What do you know about him? I guarantee the Twins didn't learn anything about Thomas that they didn't know. Fans should have learned nothing about Thomas that we didn't already know. He's a 5th outfielder, but I'd rather that guy struggle than watch a high-ceiling prospect way over his head. That would make no sense. Hicks is the future. Thomas is fine because he's keeping Hicks from needing to continue to struggle like that. Nothing more than that.

 

Also, in his last 4 years at AAA (where most of his playing time has been), Pressley's OBPs have been .373, .386, .399, .376. Looks like an idea top of the order leadoff guy to me. It hasn't transferred to the big leagues yet, and at 28, it most likely wouldn't, but his approach is certainly that of a leadoff hiter. Again, it's not like there was a more obvious leadoff hitter that wasn't hitting there because of him.

[Shane Wahl]

I think Hicks showed that he was not ready for the big leagues. If Thomas would not have been hurt earlier in the season, that move should have happened a month or two earlier. I like seeing young guys play, but watching them drowning is good for no one. I'd much prefer Thomas (or some replacement level guy) play in the short-term because it is better for Hicks in the long-term.

 

Alex Presley is solid. Not great. Probably a 4th OF, but a solid leadoff approach at the plate. He'll be around for a few years, again, likely as a backup once Hicks is ready.

 

Alex Presley is not "solid." Good god. He can only make a career out of *potentially* being a good fourth OF. His "leadoff approach" has amounted to a career .304 OBP. That is a damn embarrassment. Gardy likes him, so you do too, right?

 

It amazes me how TD is full of non-independence right now. This is apologetics for the status quo at every turn. Cycles and now defenses of Alex Presley as the 2014 leadoff man!

 

Alex Presley leading off is a tell-tale sign that the Twins have just given up again.

[Seth Stohs]

May, Ibarra, Achter.

 

I was a little surprised by Ibarra not being called up. I'm curious if they bring him back again this offseason. But, May is going to work another 40 innings in the AFL, and Achter will be there too.

[Seth Stohs]

Alex Presley is not "solid." Good god. He can only make a career out of *potentially* being a good fourth OF. His "leadoff approach" has amounted to a career .304 OBP. That is a damn embarrassment. Gardy likes him, so you do too, right?

 

It amazes me how TD is full of non-independence right now. This is apologetics for the status quo at every turn. Cycles and now defenses of Alex Presley as the 2014 leadoff man!

 

Alex Presley leading off is a tell-tale sign that the Twins have just given up again.

 

OK...

[Shane Wahl]

Cycles (as in: hell, this will all come around again, no matter how inept management is), Mike Pelfrey as a viable free agent signing, and Alex Presley as a leadoff man will be the attitude that guarantees YEARS of future ineptitude and future apologies for the ineptitude.

 

I am continuing blogging here as I am not done with my prospect updates. Other than that, I have to step aside from paying attention to the rampant bowing down to the status quo by those in Twins Centric.

[Shane Wahl]

OK...

 

A career .304 leadoff man. What is "solid" about that in the leadoff position. I know that Terry Ryan (who I did not, at all, rail against until 2013) calls him a "catalyst" but aside from that lie, what is there worthwhile in .304 career OBP guy serving as a leadoff hitter?

[Seth Stohs]

A career .304 leadoff man. What is "solid" about that in the leadoff position. I know that Terry Ryan (who I did not, at all, rail against until 2013) calls him a "catalyst" but aside from that lie, what is there worthwhile in .304 career OBP guy serving as a leadoff hitter?

 

I believe I showed his AAA OBP, which have been very leadoff hitter-like. I didn't mention his MLB time, but only pointing out his traits isn't a negative. And again, on this roster, it's not like the lineup construction would have made a difference in the W-L column. His .336 OBP in his time with the Twins isn't much worse than the numbers Span put up in recent years, same for Revere, and compared to other Twins hitters in September, my guess is that it was pretty solid.

[Shane Wahl]

I believe I showed his AAA OBP, which have been very leadoff hitter-like. I didn't mention his MLB time, but only pointing out his traits isn't a negative. And again, on this roster, it's not like the lineup construction would have made a difference in the W-L column. His .336 OBP in his time with the Twins isn't much worse than the numbers Span put up in recent years, same for Revere, and compared to other Twins hitters in September, my guess is that it was pretty solid.

 

4 seasons at AAA.

 

His 821 plate appearances amount to a .304 OBP in the major leagues. Why would any sane organization ever put a guy like this as their leadoff man? Dozier and Hicks serve as the right guys right now. And they aren't 28/29 years old. Filling in the roster with AAAA guys is NOT the right approach to rebuild and be successful. That, we know, is the Terry Ryan-Ron Gardenhire approach. It doesn't work.

[glunn]

That is a damn embarrassment. Gardy likes him, so you do too, right?

 

It amazes me how TD is full of non-independence right now. This is apologetics for the status quo at every turn. Cycles and now defenses of Alex Presley as the 2014 leadoff man!

 

Alex Presley leading off is a tell-tale sign that the Twins have just given up again.

 

Please be advised that every member of TD, from the founders to the rookies has a forum to say whatever they want. In these forums we are all equal, but we are also all subject to TD policy. If you follow the policy, you can say what you want and any member can argue with any other member, so long as the argument is respectful and does not violate any of the rules that are posted in the policy thread at the top of the main page.

 

Frankly, I personally agree with you more than Seth regarding the issue of whether cycles explain the Twins current woes. As a moderator, I work for Seth and the other founders, but it is OK for anyone to argue with them -- just follow the rules, which we have spent a lot of time developing and which are posted in a sticky thread that is easy to find.

 

Your post does not violate TD policy, but your comment about "non-independence" troubled me. I just want to make it absolutely clear that it would be completely wrong to think that there is some kind of conspiracy to be apologists for the front office.

[glunn]

I am continuing blogging here as I am not done with my prospect updates. Other than that, I have to step aside from paying attention to the rampant bowing down to the status quo by those in Twins Centric.

 

Shane, I have great respect for your insights and writing, as I do for Seth's. Sometimes I agree with him and sometimes with you. I would hate to see you slow down, much less leave.

 

The good news is that in these forums we are all equal. Just try to be a little less inflammatory -- the "rampant bowing down" comment would have been so much better if it had been phrased in a more respectful manner.

[Shane Wahl]

I understand, Glunn. Thank you.

[jokin]

Shane, I have great respect for your insights and writing, as I do for Seth's. Sometimes I agree with him and sometimes with you. I would hate to see you slow down, much less leave.

 

The good news is that in these forums we are all equal. Just try to be a little less inflammatory -- the "rampant bowing down" comment would have been so much better if it had been phrased in a more respectful manner.

 

So...."apologetics" as a label for how someone feels and expresses his thoughts about the Twins is OK, but "apolgist" is not? Again, confusing to those who cherish the language and the use of it in self-expression.

 

Either way, losing a Big Ten college professor like Shane from regular TD contributors doesn't seem like a step in the right direction.

[jokin]

I was a little surprised by Ibarra not being called up. I'm curious if they bring him back again this offseason. But, May is going to work another 40 innings in the AFL, and Achter will be there too.

 

I would have vastly preferred that May get his 40 innings with the major league club- the sooner a decision is made on his chances for when he can be counted on to being part of the Starting Rotation, the better. As far as Acther and Ibarra go, it's time to find out where they stand as near-future options- parting ways with at least one of the arb-eligible relievers is pending, the best place to determine where they are at and if they are ready to contribute is with the big league club.

[glunn]

So...."apologetics" as a label for how someone feels and expresses his thoughts about the Twins is OK, but "apolgist" is not? Again, confusing to those who cherish the language and the use of it in self-expression.

 

 

For the record, neither one is OK. \

[Ultima Ratio]

For the record, neither one is OK. \

 

If this is the case, then watch the readership and posters dwindle. If you have a problem with the tone from a particular poster, it would be better to do so individually than censor perfectly acceptable words. I think this is case of casting nets to wide, especially if only to catch one or a few fish.