Souhan: Twins Must Pay For Pitching

[Shane Wahl]

Kazmir MLBTR estimate 2/16.

[Alex]

Like your ideas, but can't see spending money on an outfielder. Arcia, Buxton, Hicks, and Presly will be more than adequate. Spend the money on starting pitchers.

 

I agree on the starting pitching, but Buxton won't be up to start the season. Pressley may be better as a fourth outfielder and Hicks, well, doesn't looks like he deserves to be penciled in next year until he proves he's ready. Hammer looks like he'll be a DH. So, if they can get a cheap slugging OF and don't see value in SP I'd have no problem with them spending some money there.

[Kwak]

I agree on the starting pitching, but Buxton won't be up to start the season. Pressley may be better as a fourth outfielder and Hicks, well, doesn't looks like he deserves to be penciled in next year until he proves he's ready. Hammer looks like he'll be a DH. So, if they can get a cheap slugging OF and don't see value in SP I'd have no problem with them spending some money there.

 

Absolutely! There is no justification for claiming an OF with Arcia, (Buxton in 12 months at the earliest), Hicks, Presly, and (maybe) Willingham will be anything but below average next year. The Twins need someone who can hit and play satisfactory defense. Delmon II in the OF doesn't work! Presley is a back-up, Hicks is a -up, and Willingham can't play defense and (hopefully) will be gone by August '14.

[howieramone1406390264]

I agree on the starting pitching, but Buxton won't be up to start the season. Pressley may be better as a fourth outfielder and Hicks, well, doesn't looks like he deserves to be penciled in next year until he proves he's ready. Hammer looks like he'll be a DH. So, if they can get a cheap slugging OF and don't see value in SP I'd have no problem with them spending some money there.

The task this winter is to add 2 starting pitchers better than Corriea and Gibson. This should be doable. If the task were to add 2 front end starters, when there may only be 50-60 1's and 2's in all of baseball, the task gets much more difficult. But, I wouldn't be surprised if he added another piece somewhere else. A lot of other teams are in the heavy rebuild mode, so I'm guessing this winter will be fairly active.

[howieramone1406390264]

Absolutely! There is no justification for claiming an OF with Arcia, (Buxton in 12 months at the earliest), Hicks, Presly, and (maybe) Willingham will be anything but below average next year. The Twins need someone who can hit and play satisfactory defense. Delmon II in the OF doesn't work! Presley is a back-up, Hicks is a -up, and Willingham can't play defense and (hopefully) will be gone by August '14.

 

I don't believe too many people are losing sleep knowing Arcia, Buxton, Hicks, Presly, and possibly even Rosario will be maning the outfield in the not too distant future. The Twins have suitable odd and ends, or if need be can find others until the permanent solution arrives, sooner rather than later.

[ThePuck]

I wanna make sure I get the sentiment some seem to have. We've had a team that's gonna have three consecutive seasons of losing 90 or more games...and it's nobody's fault? Not ownerships fault, not the GM, not the field manager, not scouting, not developing?

 

Are we to believe the GM did the best he could to put a competitor out there, and it just didn't work out? If so, why didn't it? Is it because the manager couldn't get these pieces to work? No? Why isn't it that? If it's not that, is it because we want to say he couldn't do it with so little talent? And if that's why we can't blame him because he had so little talent to work with, doesn't it go back to the person responsible for talent on the club again?

 

This ship just went off course and continues to stay off course just out of the blue and for no reason whatsoever? No one is to blame? From 94 wins to the carper for three seasons straight with a another season (at least) likely, and no one is to blame.

 

BTW, people keep saying we are rebuilding. What are we doing that other teams, who aren't in rebuilding mode, AREN'T doing? We're drafting...everyone drafts. We're signing international talent, so is everyone else. Aren't we just waiting and praying to the Gods that a seriously higher than normal percentage of our prospects end up above average of better? We did the two trades...the Span and Revere ones...but besides that, what exactly are we doing differently from teams that retool or are right in the thick of things?

[YourHouseIsMyHouse]

Priority #1 is grabbing Tanaka. I'd lock up Kazmir to a 2 year deal in addition and take a flyer on Phil Hughes for a year+option. 3 pitchers who have some good upside for us. Upside is what we need because we have none.

[old nurse]

I wanna make sure I get the sentiment some seem to have. We've had a team that's gonna have three consecutive seasons of losing 90 or more games...and it's nobody's fault? Not ownerships fault, not the GM, not the field manager, not scouting, not developing?

 

Are we to believe the GM did the best he could to put a competitor out there, and it just didn't work out? If so, why didn't it? Is it because the manager couldn't get these pieces to work? No? Why isn't it that? If it's not that, is it because we want to say he couldn't do it with so little talent? And if that's why we can't blame him because he had so little talent to work with, doesn't it go back to the person responsible for talent on the club again?

 

This ship just went off course and continues to stay off course just out of the blue and for no reason whatsoever? No one is to blame? From 94 wins to the carper for three seasons straight with a another season (at least) likely, and no one is to blame.

 

BTW, people keep saying we are rebuilding. What are we doing that other teams, who aren't in rebuilding mode, AREN'T doing? We're drafting...everyone drafts. We're signing international talent, so is everyone else. Aren't we just waiting and praying to the Gods that a seriously higher than normal percentage of our prospects end up above average of better? We did the two trades...the Span and Revere ones...but besides that, what exactly are we doing differently from teams that retool or are right in the thick of things?

 

No, there is no one person.

The owner runs the team like a business.

The scouting department had not found enough talent. Maybe they made bad choices, maybe the one who had the right talent pegged didn't argue hard enough.

The development people did not develop the talent they had to something better than what the talent could be.

The GM made poor trades, did not sign the right free agents, did not pick up even slightly better marginal talent when it was available.

Even the fans are to blame. When the team was winning in the dome, it still had plenty of capacity for more fans. Plenty of blame to go around, just not one person to hang in effigy.

[Mike Sixel]

So much for a culture of accountability......

[ThePuck]

So much for a culture of accountability......

 

It's everyone's fault so it's no one's person's fault and so everyone gets defended...as if they weren't even part of the problem...and it continues.

[old nurse]

It's everyone's fault so it's no one's person's fault and so everyone gets defended...as if they weren't even part of the problem...and it continues.

 

There is a different scouting director.

Although some may not believe there ever was a change, there has been a change in GM.

I do not know if the scouts are different, I don't keep track of that stuff.

Some posts are not so much a defense of someone as it is a counterpoint to something posted that one thinks very little of. There is a difference.

[JB_Iowa]

It's funny (or not). I keep going back to October 2010 and the belief I had that the Twins needed to start making some changes so that they could compete in the post-season.

 

I was ready for them to do some re-tooling and had faith that they knew what they needed to do. It's the reason I wasn't upset about Hardy/Nishi -- I had blind faith that the front office and field staff knew what changes needed to be made to try to propel this team to the next level.

 

And I remember discussions about contracts coming off the books and monies that might be available to improve the starting pitching.

 

In some ways, it is hard for me to even comprehend how the team went from that point in October 2010 to where they are now. Injuries, bad luck, bad judgment, staleness, budget cuts and more have all played a part in the decline. It's just hard to understand how it could all get so bad -- and stay so bad -- so quickly. This decline was not like walking downhill. It was more like jumping off a cliff.

 

I wish I had the faith that some posters have that the prospects will really turn this mess around but my trust level has been steadily decimated over the past few years. The Twins need to rebuild not only the team but the confidence of their fans (and former fans).

[ThePuck]

There is a different scouting director.

Although some may not believe there ever was a change, there has been a change in GM.

I do not know if the scouts are different, I don't keep track of that stuff.

Some posts are not so much a defense of someone as it is a counterpoint to something posted that one thinks very little of. There is a difference.

 

We've had the same scouting director since 2007. Yes, there's been a change in GM...but it's not as if Ryan isn't responsible for some of problems we've seen from 2011 till now in the way of talent, or lack thereof...dating back to before he left the first time...

[gil4]

Downfall of the team losing Hunter. Botched Santana trade, all on Ryan.

 

I thought Smith made the Santana trade.

[ThePuck]

I thought Smith made the Santana trade.

 

necessitated by Ryan not nailing Santana down earlier...

[Guest USAFChief]

Lets keep the posts on topic, rather than other posters.

[ThePuck]

And the blame game continues on. The team Ryan left won 269 games in the 3 years after he left. The major league talent was there. There were situations left unfinished. It is not unreasonable to have that. The lack of minor league talent was dealt with. Improving minor league systems, as much as some would expect it to do, does not happen overnight. Problems Ryan left with. 2 failed draft picks for Hunter were all Ryan's fault. No one saw the offer the Angels put forth coming in that high. Hindsight makes an easy rip. Downfall of the team losing Hunter. Botched Santana trade, all on Ryan. You are going to think whatever you want. It is not defending Ryan as much as it is what you post is inaccurate

 

The 'hindsight' on the Hunter thing isn't hindsight at all...when Hunter was pushing for a new deal prior to 2007, it should have gotten done instead of Ryan ignoring Hunter's requests for a new deal. That's the rip on the Hunter situation...he should have been signed before ever becoming a FA...before the 2007 season ever happened.

 

The first offer made to Hunter was after the Castillo trade...the trade that ticked off Santana and Hunter...the trade that sealed off any real chance to keep either one.

 

And the talent Ryan left the major league level when he left isn't in question, but the poor farm system he left that would need to be tapped into in the future certainly is.

[nicksaviking]

No, there is no one person.

The owner runs the team like a business.

The scouting department had not found enough talent. Maybe they made bad choices, maybe the one who had the right talent pegged didn't argue hard enough.

The development people did not develop the talent they had to something better than what the talent could be.

The GM made poor trades, did not sign the right free agents, did not pick up even slightly better marginal talent when it was available.

Even the fans are to blame. When the team was winning in the dome, it still had plenty of capacity for more fans. Plenty of blame to go around, just not one person to hang in effigy.

 

So much for a culture of accountability......

 

It's everyone's fault so it's no one's person's fault and so everyone gets defended...as if they weren't even part of the problem...and it continues.

 

I don't think you guys are as far apart as you might think. I agree with nurse that there is plenty of blame to go around. However I don't think that just because one person can't be saddled with all the blame that everybody gets away with it.

 

In the judicial system that's why they have a charge of accessory. Five guys don't get to all stand around a dead body each pointing a finger at the guy next to them and walk away free. They were all there, they were all involved so everyone is getting cuffed.

 

I know it's callous but that's why I want an entire regime change. If we cannot be sure who is most culpable, it's time to hedge our bets and just start over.

[ThePuck]

I don't think you guys are as far apart as you might think. I agree with nurse that there is plenty of blame to go around. However I don't think that just because one person can't be saddled with all the blame that everybody gets away with it.

 

In the judicial system that's why they have a charge of accessory. Five guys don't get to all stand around a dead body each pointing a finger at the guy next to them and walk away free. They were all there, they were all involved so everyone is getting cuffed.

 

I know it's callous but that's why I want an entire regime change. If we cannot be sure who is most culpable, it's time to hedge our bets and just start over.

 

If you go back and read post 36, it might clear up what I'm saying.