Article: Twins Trade Justin Morneau To Pirates

[nicksaviking]

According to MLB the PTBNL is Duke Welker Does anybody know who that is?

 

He's a 27-year-old career minor-league reliever with control issues.

 

But no way can this guy be the PTBNL because surely St. Peter would have canned Ryan the second the trade was consumated. Surely no GM is incompetant enough to take on TWO AAAA roster busters in the same deal when there are a bunch of young players needing those spots and plenty of international and traditional free agents this team needs to be looking at this offseason.

 

If true, it would have been of more value to cut Morneau and let him sign with whichever team he chooses then to try to sabotage the roster decisions this offseason.

[John Bonnes]

For those wanting to talk about the Player To Be Named Later, I've started up another thread to specifically talk about that subject:

 

http://twinsdaily.com/minnesota-twins-talk/8656-morneau-ptbnl-speculation-wishes.html#post159666

[John Bonnes]

For those wanting to talk about the Player To Be Named Later, I've started up another thread to specifically talk about that subject:

 

http://twinsdaily.com/minnesota-twins-talk/8656-morneau-ptbnl-speculation-wishes.html#post159666

 

And apparantly I'm too late - the PTBNL has been named? A poster says it is Duke Welker, who hasn't been a starting pitcher since A ball. He's a RHed reliever. Sigh.

 

Does anyone have a link to this report? I'm not seeing it anywhere.

[Seth Stohs]

According to MLB the PTBNL is Duke Welker Does anybody know who that is?

 

 

Source? Link?

[John Bonnes]

Per uber-contributor Jeremy Nygaard, Ryan watched Duke Welker pitch last weekend.

 

"With TR in attendance, both Cumpton and Oliver were bad last weekend. One pitcher that wasn't: Duke Welker. #MnTwins"

 

And here's his tweet-length scouting report:

 

Welker is a AAA closer who has a mid-90s fastball and a solid low-80s slider. Got 8 outs, 5 by K last weekend. Also, he's 6-7.

 

Two important notes:

1) I've seen no credible link that the PTBNL is Welker and

2) Obviously, you should be following Jeremy on Twitter.

[Seth Stohs]

I haven't seen any reports on Welker being the PTBNL. His name has been thrown out in rumors, and he could be an option, but I haven't seen anything.

[John Bonnes]

It's confirmed:

 

Pirates acquire Justin Morneau from Twins for stretch run | MLB.com: News

 

In his second roster-altering trade in four days, Huntington acquired the first baseman from Minnesota in exchange for outfielder Alex Presley, and either a player to be named later or cash. According to MLB.com sources, the second player will be pitcher Duke Welker.

[Seth Stohs]

Here's a link with Tom Singer's report saying that Welker is the 2nd player "according to mlb.com sources."

 

Pirates acquire Justin Morneau from Twins for stretch run | MLB.com: News

 

In his second roster-altering trade in four days, Huntington acquired the first baseman from Minnesota in exchange for outfielder Alex Presley, and either a player to be named later or cash. According to MLB.com sources, the second player will be pitcher Duke Welker.

[PseudoSABR]

He's a 27-year-old career minor-league reliever with control issues.

 

But no way can this guy be the PTBNL because surely St. Peter would have canned Ryan the second the trade was consumated. Surely no GM is incompetant enough to take on TWO AAAA roster busters in the same deal when there are a bunch of young players needing those spots and plenty of international and traditional free agents this team needs to be looking at this offseason.

 

If true, it would have been of more value to cut Morneau and let him sign with whichever team he chooses then to try to sabotage the roster decisions this offseason.

I think you might be overreacting.

[PseudoSABR]

Duke Welker, he's got a 9.4 K/9, does have some control issues. Was mentioned in Sickles' Honorable Mentions in November.

 

Still not much in return, and if true I'd rather have just kept Justin; though I never expect a one month rental to bring much in return.

[Highabove]

Hard throwing carrier Minor Leaguer with control issues.

Welker may be the second coming of Jim Hoey.

[John Bonnes]

In the same story, for anyone who thinks that Pittsburgh didn't really care about the $2.265M that is still owed to Morneau, there is this quote:

 

Morneau has one month remaining on a six-year, $80 million deal he'd signed with the Twins. The Pirates are covering the $2.265 million remaining on the contract, to "Bob Nutting's credit," Huntington said.

 

 

"He allowed us to go significantly over budget," the GM said of the club's chairman. "We appreciate Bob for the financial flexibility to do something like this."

 

 

I don't know that I'm disappointed with the return (though I'm not thrilled). But what really bugs me about this trade is that they didn't eat any of that money. It appears that was a motivating factor and I can't imagine it didn't play into decreasing the market for Morneau.

[John Bonnes]

Here's a link with Tom Singer's report saying that Welker is the 2nd player "according to mlb.com sources."

 

Pirates acquire Justin Morneau from Twins for stretch run | MLB.com: News

 

Scooped ya - by four whole minutes. :-)

[Seth Stohs]

In the same story, for anyone who thinks that Pittsburgh didn't really care about the $2.265M that is still owed to Morneau, there is this quote:

 

 

 

I don't know that I'm disappointed with the return (though I'm not thrilled). But what really bugs me about this trade is that they didn't eat any of that money. It appears that was a motivating factor and I can't imagine it didn't play into decreasing the market for Morneau.

 

Is it that you somehow think they would have got significantly more in return for a one-month rental?? Because, they wouldn't have. It's not enough money to worry about. Going the "Twins are being cheap" angle is too easy.

[Willihammer]

A simple no would have sufficed.

 

Source: Gardy

 

Twins Daily - Ron Gardenhire talks September roster

[Seth Stohs]

Scooped ya - by four whole minutes. :-)

 

Assuming "mlb.com sources" are right.

[nicksaviking]

I think you might be overreacting.

 

Surely I am, my three-year-old has been a terror today.

 

It still doesn't change the fact that for the second year in a row Ryan opted for TWO low upside players who required 40-man spots. If Huntington told Ryan he had to take two guys from his 40-man, Ryan should have spoken a couple of explatives and hung up the phone letting Morneau play out the season.

[Dman]

So this trade was more about Morneau playing for a contender than the Twins getting much in return. I t sounds like the Twins were pushing for a higher level prospect but apparently Pittsburgh didn't bend. Can't blame them though as Morneau has strong ties to MN and will likely be back for the right price. Tough to give up a ton for one month. Pirates got a good deal. Justin will help them.

[PseudoSABR]

Surely I am, my three-year-old has been a terror today.

 

It still doesn't change the fact that for the second year in a row Ryan opted for TWO low upside players who required 40-man spots. If Huntington told Ryan he had to take two guys from his 40-man, Ryan should have spoken a couple of explatives and hung up the phone letting Morneau play out the season.

Opted? As if there were better options to be had and he willing took the lesser option?

 

Sure, I would have been okay with Morneau finishing the season, but the Twins got some filler going forward. Escobar and Hernadez produced more for us than Liriano did for the Whitesox, let's see how this plays out, before we start calling for TR's job.

[bird]

and trading a player with a month left helps us in the long run? Where's the benefit in the long run.

 

And keeping a player we don't plan to re-sign, for 5 weeks, helps us in the long run? Where's the benefit to not getting something in return in the long run?

 

Explain to me how Alex Pressly and PTNL hurt us in the long run.

[raindog]

Is it that you somehow think they would have got significantly more in return for a one-month rental?? Because, they wouldn't have. It's not enough money to worry about. Going the "Twins are being cheap" angle is too easy.

 

I don't think it's crazy to think they would have gotten something better. That much money is significant to the Pirates. I'd rather have gotten one young guy with upside.

[nicksaviking]

Is it that you somehow think they would have got significantly more in return for a one-month rental?? Because, they wouldn't have. It's not enough money to worry about. Going the "Twins are being cheap" angle is too easy.

 

$2.265M is more than the slot bonus for the 16th overall pick this year. Taking Morneau out of the equation all-together, the Twins should have been able to buy a pretty good player for that sum. The Mets sent money back to Pittsburgh, why would you think money would not be a factor for Pittsburgh when dealing for Morneau?

[ThePuck]

And keeping a player we don't plan to re-sign, for 5 weeks, helps us in the long run? Where's the benefit to not getting something in return in the long run?

 

Explain to me how Alex Pressly and PTNL hurt us in the long run.

 

I don't think the trade effects us at all in the long run. I'm not the one who claimed it had an effect on us in the long run. In his defense of this trade, he said it will likely help us in the long run. I asked how.

[nicksaviking]

Escobar and Hernadez produced more for us than Liriano did for the Whitesox, let's see how this plays out, before we start calling for TR's job.

 

That's not the point, as expected they produced next to nothing and almost certainly will never produce any value, yet they are now more roadblocks for the real talent. They should not be on the 40-man and they should not be keeping Santana and May or Meyer or which ever other New Britain pitcher out of Rochester. They are hinderances to the rebuild just as Pressley will be. This team doesn't need more players like this. They are 27 for Pete's sake, this isn't rebuild material! Go young or go home.

[PseudoSABR]

The 2.265M has the same significance to both teams. Why would the Pirates accept a discounted Morneau when they have to give up more talent? It makes just as little sense for them to do it, especially given that ownership didn't give them any budget restraints.

[Seth Stohs]

I don't think it's crazy to think they would have gotten something better. That much money is significant to the Pirates. I'd rather have gotten one young guy with upside.

 

Can't we assume that was discussed? Can't we assume the Terry Ryan took the offer that he felt was best for the organization long-term?

[ThePuck]

Bremer just got done saying Pressley is going to be the primary CF for the rest of the year...

[ThePuck]

Can't we assume that was discussed? Can't we assume the Terry Ryan took the offer that he felt was best for the organization long-term?

 

Seth, I'll ask the same thing I asked earlier. In your opinion, based on who we got and the fact Morny was gone at the end of the year, how does this trade actually effect us long term?

[PseudoSABR]

That's not the point, as expected they produced next to nothing and almost certainly will never produce any value, yet they are now more roadblocks for the real talent.

So now they have negative value? You're not being fair to the players here. Plenty of players, especially, strikeout relief pitchers emerge in their late 20s.

 

While top 20 arms in low-A are fun to dream on, guys like these two probably statistically make a more significant impact.

[nicksaviking]

Can't we assume that was discussed? Can't we assume the Terry Ryan took the offer that he felt was best for the organization long-term?

 

So it's just a coincidence that the cheapest deal was the one that was best long term? That's an awful generous benefit of a doubt considering there is no evidence to support it but plenty of reports prior to the trade that money was the hold up.