Harden's release

[Badsmerf]

This is pretty strange to me. He has had nothing but set-backs since he started the season, so perhaps he is unhappy with his progress. It could also be that he will not be able to pitch the rest of the season and would rather focus on getting healthy outside the organization. I have a hard time believing a 31 year old is going to throw in the towel, but its possible. I had high hopes Harden would make it back healthy this season and provide some Ace potential in the rotation. I hope we hear more about this.

[old nurse]

I don't think it was anything negative with what the Twins were doing for him.

Twins Release Rich Harden - Twinkie Town

[jay]

It's a bummer this didn't turn out better. Good luck going forward, Rich.

 

Imagine the Cubs-like praise TR would get if Harden had turned out to be a tradeable asset!

[TheLeviathan]

Imagine the Cubs-like praise TR would get if Harden had turned out to be a tradeable asset!

 

I guess we can only wish. I love that this is somehow sarcasm against the idea that people would be happy to have tradeable assets. I shudder at the mere thought of such blasphemy!

 

Harden is toast. I hope the guy has a great future outside of baseball, because that's what it's going to have to be. Decent gamble by the Twins, but Harden hasn't been an ace since we enjoyed Brian Buscher and Mike Lamb at 3B.

[Willihammer]

These minor league contracts almost never work out. Kazmir is probably the best of the past two years, at least. They make for compelling narratives but any production at the MLB level you have to consider a bonus I think.

[diehardtwinsfan]

These minor league contracts almost never work out. Kazmir is probably the best of the past two years, at least. They make for compelling narratives but any production at the MLB level you have to consider a bonus I think.

 

Of course they don't. If odds were good, the player would get a major league contract.

[cmathewson]

I think he had a clause in his contract that stipulated a promotion or release in the July time frame (similar to Perez, but later). Since he hasn't pitched really at all, that was not likely. So release was the only option. I'm sure it was mutually agreed upon.

[Monkeypaws]

Too bad - he was my dark-horse candidate to be the best pickup off the dust heap this off-season. And he's Canadian.

[jay]

These minor league contracts almost never work out. Kazmir is probably the best of the past two years, at least. They make for compelling narratives but any production at the MLB level you have to consider a bonus I think.

 

True statement.

 

Our own Samuel Deduno would have to be right up there though. A couple other guys have been productive from this last offseason -- Byrd, Raburn, .... and I'm running out of names.

[old nurse]

from mlb.com

Former Oakland Athletics strikeout thrower Rich Harden has stopped his latest and perhaps final attempt at a comeback from injuries. The veteran right-hander who had 181 strikeouts in 148 innings during the 2008 season called Minnesota assistant general manager Rob Antony on Saturday and asked for and was granted his release from the Twins.

Harden told Antony he was done throwing live batting practice sessions because of ongoing shoulder pain. The 31-year-old right-hander had been throwing BP at the Twins' complex in Fort Myers, Fla., in an attempt to pitch for the first time in the Major Leagues since Sept. 25, 2011.

The Twins signed Harden, who started in three postseason series for Oakland and the Chicago Cubs, as a free agent last December. That was after shoulder surgery caused him to miss all of 2012.

"He's had a lat [muscle injury], a shoulder [injury]; he's had a variety of things," Antony said in the Twins' clubhouse at Safeco Field before Sunday's series finale in Seattle. "He couldn't get healthy."

Antony said retirement was a distinct possibility for Harden, who has been the disabled list 10 times in a career that began as a 21-year-old starter for Oakland in 2003. For now, Harden will take a couple of months off from throwing to reassess his comeback chances.

[old nurse]

These minor league contracts almost never work out. Kazmir is probably the best of the past two years, at least. They make for compelling narratives but any production at the MLB level you have to consider a bonus I think.

 

Burton was a minor league contract coming back from injury.

[jay]

Burton was a minor league contract coming back from injury.

 

As were Fien, Thielbar, Wood, Bernier, Colabello, and Ramirez. That makes a surprising 8 of the 42 on our '40-man' roster. More than I would have thought...

[Willihammer]

Burton was a minor league contract coming back from injury.

 

So were Zumaya, Rafa Perez and the aforementioned Harden.

 

I'm all for buying low on guys with upside. I'd argue its one of Jr's strengths actually. But its a risky way to round out your roster, IMO, because so many of these guys bust. I don't see how that's really even debatable.

[howieramone1406390264]

So were Zumaya, Rafa Perez and the aforementioned Harden.

 

I'm all for buying low on guys with upside. I'd argue its one of Jr's strengths actually. But its a risky way to round out your roster, IMO, because so many of these guys bust. I don't see how that's really even debatable.

Just another example that Ryan is using all avenues, except bidding on top tier free agents, to improve the Twins. Don't forget Pressly in Rule 5 or Florimon on the waiver wire. It's not an accident we have the top rated farm system.

[jokin]

As were Fien, Thielbar, Wood, Bernier, Colabello, and Ramirez. That makes a surprising 8 of the 42 on our '40-man' roster. More than I would have thought...

 

Thielbar, Bernier, Colabello, Ramiriez were not coming off of injury. They definitely don't fit into Old Nurse's categorization.

[Willihammer]

Just another example that Ryan is using all avenues, except bidding on top tier free agents, to improve the Twins. Don't forget Pressly in Rule 5 or Florimon on the waiver wire. It's not an accident we have the top rated farm system.

Florimon? I consider Florimon to be the latest iteration of your Bobby Kielty / Lew Ford / Brendan Harris / Luke Hughes, etc. Guys who can put together a few nice months and give the illusion of talent but end up disappointing as their playing time approaches significance. I'd even toss Deduno in that group. Even when you're good at spotting these diamonds in the rough, like Ryan is, the instances where one of them turns into a long term staple of the roster is pretty rare. The only guys I'd really put in that group are Burton and Fien. Wood, Bernier, Colabello, Ramirez, Escobar, Hernandez, Deduno, and Diamond - none of these guys belongs on a MLB roster IMO.

[jokin]

Just another example that Ryan is using all avenues, except bidding on top tier free agents, to improve the Twins. Don't forget Pressly in Rule 5 or Florimon on the waiver wire. It's not an accident we have the top rated farm system.

 

We still have Vasquez and Kyle Davies that hopefully could pan out (not holding my breath....).

 

I've been a consistent champion of acquiring cheap assets like this- baseball, probably as much as any sport has a history of guys who bounce back or catch lightning in a bottle just from a change of scenery or given a new approach by new employers.

 

The interesting take on this whole situation with regard to waiver pick-ups was the criticism some of us on one side of the philosophical divide have received when we have urged the Twins to take full advantage from the poor W-L record in claiming DFAs (Todd Redmond, Jair Jurrjens, Luis Martinez, Pedro Borbon....etc.).

 

The retort from the defend-management-at -all-costs crowd at the time went something to the effect that:

 

"Ryan would be ill-served and wasting his time trying to rebuild a team adding 25th-place roster player-level players, malcontents and damaged-goods retreads....He's doing things the right way.....!....building the farm system from the ground up.....!"

[jokin]

Florimon? I consider Florimon to be the latest iteration of your Bobby Kielty / Lew Ford / Brendan Harris / Luke Hughes, etc. Guys who can put together a few nice months and give the illusion of talent but end up disappointing as their playing time approaches significance. I'd even toss Deduno in that group. Even when you're good at spotting these diamonds in the rough, like Ryan is, the instances where one of them turns into a long term staple of the roster is pretty rare. The only guys I'd really put in that group are Burton and Fien. Wood, Bernier, Colabello, Ramirez, Escobar, Hernandez, Deduno, and Diamond - none of these guys belongs on a MLB roster IMO.

 

But they fit into the meme that Ryan can patch a roster together year-by-year on the cheap. I don't think that anyone can deny that he clearly has a history and record of expertise at plugging really low-risk and inexpensive assets into gaping roster holes. "Buying time" with illusory players while waiting for the real prospects to be ready is certainly a skill that can be appreciated- it's certainly better than signing a Vernon Wells-type to fill that hole.

[jay]

Thielbar, Bernier, Colabello, Ramiriez were not coming off of injury. They definitely don't fit into Old Nurse's categorization.

 

Correct. With the theme of the conversation, they were additional examples of minor league contracts.

[old nurse]

We still have Vasquez and Kyle Davies that hopefully could pan out (not holding my breath....).

 

I've been a consistent champion of acquiring cheap assets like this- baseball, probably as much as any sport has a history of guys who bounce back or catch lightning in a bottle just from a change of scenery or given a new approach by new employers.

 

The interesting take on this whole situation with regard to waiver pick-ups was the criticism some of us on one side of the philosophical divide have received when we have urged the Twins to take full advantage from the poor W-L record in claiming DFAs (Todd Redmond, Jair Jurrjens, Luis Martinez, Pedro Borbon....etc.).

 

The retort from the defend-management-at -all-costs crowd at the time went something to the effect that:

 

"Ryan would be ill-served and wasting his time trying to rebuild a team adding 25th-place roster player-level players, malcontents and damaged-goods retreads....He's doing things the right way.....!....building the farm system from the ground up.....!"

 

Redmond would have been an upgrade over Walters. The rest, meh. To miss out on one of the multitude of DFA's is not bad. Ryan tends to shop for those types in the off season. If Redmond would have been DFA in the off season there would have been a good chance Ryan would have grabbed him. If more than a couple pan out he will pay better attention to the in season guys. The talent is at about the same level as what you got it doesn't make a difference. If you have a scout who liked him, then Ryan might have grab a dfa in season. The fan on TD, I don't think Ryan pays them much attention. Except, of course, if he is feeding :shoot:Thyrlos bad information.

[jokin]

Redmond would have been an upgrade over Walters. The rest, meh. To miss out on one of the multitude of DFA's is not bad. Ryan tends to shop for those types in the off season. If Redmond would have been DFA in the off season there would have been a good chance Ryan would have grabbed him. If more than a couple pan out he will pay better attention to the in season guys. The talent is at about the same level as what you got it doesn't make a difference. If you have a scout who liked him, then Ryan might have grab a dfa in season. The fan on TD, I don't think Ryan pays them much attention. Except, of course, if he is feeding :shoot:Thyrlos bad information.

 

Ryan missed 2 free swipes at the very fat and dangling pinata. Must have been a good blindfold he had on in the offseason.

 

 

 

 

Todd Richard Redmond

Position: Pitcher

Bats: Right, Throws: Right

Height: 6' 3", Weight: 235 lb

 

 

• February 8, 2013: Selected off waivers by the Baltimore Orioles from the Cincinnati Reds.
  
• March 22, 2013: Selected off waivers by the Toronto Blue Jays from the Baltimore Orioles.
  

[jay]

Just another example that Ryan is using all avenues, except bidding on top tier free agents, to improve the Twins. Don't forget Pressly in Rule 5 or Florimon on the waiver wire. It's not an accident we have the top rated farm system.

 

The retort from the defend-management-at -all-costs crowd at the time went something to the effect that:

 

"Ryan would be ill-served and wasting his time trying to rebuild a team adding 25th-place roster player-level players, malcontents and damaged-goods retreads....He's doing things the right way.....!....building the farm system from the ground up.....!"

 

So, wait, you quoted a member of the "defend management" crowd praising these moves to then create a make-belief quote about how that crowd has bashed even the idea of these moves??

 

I'm sorry, but that makes absolutely zero sense.

[jokin]

So, wait, you quoted a member of the "defend management" crowd praising these moves to then create a make-belief quote about how that crowd has bashed even the idea of these moves??

 

I'm sorry, but that makes absolutely zero sense.

 

Actually, that's exactly what has happened on this board virtually every single time that a poster has wondered if the Twins should claim ________ (the latest waiver posting).

[jay]

Actually, that's exactly what has happened on this board virtually every single time that a poster has wondered if the Twins should claim ________ (the latest waiver posting).

 

We took a sudden turn from minor league contracts (where the Twins seem to have done relatively well) to DFAs. I have seen a few of those arguments against making a claim, but I would disagree on your blanket characterization of where they come from. Your quote didn't make the case very well either.

 

I still think Julio Borbon would have made a lot of sense, but the Cubs had priority in the claim order. Same for Reid Brignac and the Rockies.

[StormJH1]

Just another example that Ryan is using all avenues, except bidding on top tier free agents, to improve the Twins. Don't forget Pressly in Rule 5 or Florimon on the waiver wire. It's not an accident we have the top rated farm system.

 

Yeah....except that Part 1 of your statement doesn't really line up with Part 2. I agree that it's good of Terry Ryan to explore every possible avenue outside of the traditional routes of drafting, trading, and signing free agents to improve the Twins, but let's all keep in mind that the guys he found are still basically replacement-level guys to comprise a really terrible baseball team (for 3 years in a row now).

 

The "top rated farm system" has nothing to do with taking a chance on injured players with minor league contracts, the waiver wire, or the Rule 5 draft. It is due, almost entirely, to:

 

(1) The Twins being terrible enough to get elite level draft prospects;

(2) The Twins allowing useful free agents to depart on purpose to receive compensatory picks;

(3) The Twins being willing to part with MLB players of some value (Span and Revere) in exchange for prospects.

[jokin]

We took a sudden turn from minor league contracts (where the Twins seem to have done relatively well) to DFAs. I have seen a few of those arguments against making a claim, but I would disagree on your blanket characterization of where they come from. Your quote didn't make the case very well either.

 

I still think Julio Borbon would have made a lot of sense, but the Cubs had priority in the claim order. Same for Reid Brignac and the Rockies.

 

The "turn" was taken by the poster my response was to.

 

And my quote is almost exactly what happens every time it has been proposed that the Twins look into making a claim on a player. I'm certainly not saying you are in that camp, but sorry, I have a pretty sensitive hypocrisy meter when it comes to these types of things- and it has happened pretty regularly from the inception of TD.

 

The Twins could have made a claim on Borbon and worked out a trade- probably for a Benson o probably less, before the Cubs exercised their pre-emptory waiver rights at the end of the claiming period.

[jay]

Yeah....except that Part 1 of your statement doesn't really line up with Part 2. I agree that it's good of Terry Ryan to explore every possible avenue outside of the traditional routes of drafting, trading, and signing free agents to improve the Twins, but let's all keep in mind that the guys he found are still basically replacement-level guys to comprise a really terrible baseball team (for 3 years in a row now).

 

I'd hope some of the guys have/retain value above replacement level, but this is pretty true. It's not hard to picture a guy like Fien or Thielbar getting moved for a prospect with some level of value, so I'd like to think they're maybe just a slight bit above replacement level.

 

The Twins could have made a claim on Borbon and worked out a trade- probably for a Benson o probably less, before the Cubs exercised their pre-emptory waiver rights at the end of the claiming period.

 

This just may be true. And to think, it could have saved all the agony of losing Benson for nothing.

[jokin]

Yeah....except that Part 1 of your statement doesn't really line up with Part 2. I agree that it's good of Terry Ryan to explore every possible avenue outside of the traditional routes of drafting, trading, and signing free agents to improve the Twins, but let's all keep in mind that the guys he found are still basically replacement-level guys to comprise a really terrible baseball team (for 3 years in a row now).

 

The "top rated farm system" has nothing to do with taking a chance on injured players with minor league contracts, the waiver wire, or the Rule 5 draft. It is due, almost entirely, to:

 

(1) The Twins being terrible enough to get elite level draft prospects;

(2) The Twins allowing useful free agents to depart on purpose to receive compensatory picks;

(3) The Twins being willing to part with MLB players of some value (Span and Revere) in exchange for prospects.

 

Lots of clubs, even some of the most successful ones, freely employ the bargain methods that probabilistically stand to yield only marginal improvements. The inflow of hungry personnell helps keeps things fluid and dynamic in an organization, no jobs should be "safe" in such a competitive business- with so many willing to bust the doors down to only get a chance to succeed. People minimize potential marginal improvements, Florimon has only been considered as such until recently, he is still young enough for many to think that he ends up being a better than marginal upgrade- and for no initial outlay. And, once in a while you have a lightning in a bottle-type performance or even a medium-, or long-term keeper that comes from such activity.

 

Your 2nd two paragraphs are spot on.

[jokin]

I'd hope some of the guys have/retain value above replacement level, but this is pretty true. It's not hard to picture a guy like Fien or Thielbar getting moved for a prospect with some level of value, so I'd like to think they're maybe just a slight bit above replacement level.

 

 

 

This just may be true. And to think, it could have saved all the agony of losing Benson for nothing.

 

Hey, don't you go dissing "The Frisco Kid", he just returned from the DL and I'm sure there's drama still to be played out here on Twins Daily as his season progresses.

[old nurse]

Ryan missed 2 free swipes at the very fat and dangling pinata. Must have been a good blindfold he had on in the offseason.

 

 

 

 

Todd Richard Redmond

Position: Pitcher

Bats: Right, Throws: Right

Height: 6' 3", Weight: 235 lb

 

 

• February 8, 2013: Selected off waivers by the Baltimore Orioles from the Cincinnati Reds.
  
• March 22, 2013: Selected off waivers by the Toronto Blue Jays from the Baltimore Orioles.
  

 

Change of leagues helps a pitcher initially, see Mackey excuse for Correia's April. Short term he might get you a couple of wins you might not otherwise get. Considering that the Twins need help at the front of the rotation andd not the back, these moves matter little.