Vikings v Commanders

[gunnarthor]

36 minutes ago, Vanimal46 said:

It's not just 8th to 14th pick for 1 round, it's for every round. And what a lame excuse you're throwing out, You think KAM is great, so why wouldn't you want a better draft pick in a season we won't make the playoffs?

I think I was fairly clear. The most important thing is JJ's development. If he is our long term answer at QB I don't care about much else. That's the most important thing and what I want to see. (I suppose we could lose all the games 38-35 and also get better draft position but that's not realistic with the roster.)

[Mike Sixel]

I just want a really good DB.... corner or safety. This team can't cover well enough. 

Or an elite DT.

[TheLeviathan]

10 hours ago, gunnarthor said:

I think I was fairly clear. The most important thing is JJ's development. If he is our long term answer at QB I don't care about much else. That's the most important thing and what I want to see. (I suppose we could lose all the games 38-35 and also get better draft position but that's not realistic with the roster.)

Yes, his development is the most important thing....but if you have your QB the leverage to trade down becomes extra fantastic too.  You can have both, but it can be a fine needle to thread.

[nicksaviking]

I really don't like all these presumptions that JJ is going to keep his job. It was one game against a bad defense, and he still couldn't get the ball to the best WR in the league. 

 

[Cap'n Piranha]

Fairness in posting act, I saw exactly zero minutes of the game yesterday.  From what I can tell from the ESPN Gamecenter, it appears that KOC for once committed to running the ball, and giving JJM quick simple looks; essentially, he made the offense like what JJM ran at Michigan.  It's not surprising to me that this lead to success against a bad team with a bad defense; as others have opined, seeing whether this can continue against teams who wouldn't prefer to lose will be fascinating.

The defense still looks to be championship caliber--you really wonder how different the 8 losses are this year if KOC hadn't been so adamant about putting JJ McSquarePeg into the KOC Round Hole offense.  I think there's a very reasonable path to a playoff spot next year with an elite defense and a grind-it-out offense that doesn't make mistakes (especially considering the Vikings schedule next year should be one of the easiest in the league).  Whether that playoff team would be a true contender is another question.

[TheLeviathan]

39 minutes ago, nicksaviking said:

I really don't like all these presumptions that JJ is going to keep his job. It was one game against a bad defense, and he still couldn't get the ball to the best WR in the league. 

 

Even if he isn't, I'm not sure this is the draft I want his replacement.  I saw a good game manager on Sunday...that's a start.

I'm hoping this lets us reload on young defensive players.  A true NT.  One or two CBs.  A new safety.  Linebacker.  

I'd be good with a TE and a Center on offense too, but NT, safety, and LB are strong classes this year.

[Vanimal46]

49 minutes ago, nicksaviking said:

I really don't like all these presumptions that JJ is going to keep his job. It was one game against a bad defense, and he still couldn't get the ball to the best WR in the league. 

 

Sadly we may not have a choice. The QB market as usual is bleak on the open market. Kwesi fell asleep at the wheel while the top backups signed 2 year contracts last season (Mac Jones, Brissett, Winston, etc)

Indy played Danny Dimes on a severely injured leg and now he's out for 2026 after he blew his achilles. The only options I see are trading 3+ 1st round picks if Burrow or Herbert for whatever reason decide they want to leave their organization. Trading a 2nd or 1st for Kyler Murray, or trading a 3rd or 2nd for Mac Jones + having to pay him a Baker Mayfield type extension. 

I'm still mildly interested in seeing how McCarthy looks with a full offseason in the lab working on his mechanics. Until he started playing on our team, I don't think I've ever seen a QB whip around his back leg like he's pitching from the mound. 

[gunnarthor]

58 minutes ago, nicksaviking said:

I really don't like all these presumptions that JJ is going to keep his job. It was one game against a bad defense, and he still couldn't get the ball to the best WR in the league. 

 

I know we talk about it every week but that decision won't be made until we've seen all the games. So no need to worry now. Let's see what he looks like after Dallas, NY, GB, and Det. 

[Mike Sixel]

26 minutes ago, TheLeviathan said:

Even if he isn't, I'm not sure this is the draft I want his replacement.  I saw a good game manager on Sunday...that's a start.

I'm hoping this lets us reload on young defensive players.  A true NT.  One or two CBs.  A new safety.  Linebacker.  

I'd be good with a TE and a Center on offense too, but NT, safety, and LB are strong classes this year.

Sure need a lot of help on this team......they might be down to one WR after this year, almost certainly after '26......

[nicksaviking]

1 hour ago, Vanimal46 said:

Sadly we may not have a choice. The QB market as usual is bleak on the open market. Kwesi fell asleep at the wheel while the top backups signed 2 year contracts last season (Mac Jones, Brissett, Winston, etc)

Indy played Danny Dimes on a severely injured leg and now he's out for 2026 after he blew his achilles. The only options I see are trading 3+ 1st round picks if Burrow or Herbert for whatever reason decide they want to leave their organization. Trading a 2nd or 1st for Kyler Murray, or trading a 3rd or 2nd for Mac Jones + having to pay him a Baker Mayfield type extension. 

I'm still mildly interested in seeing how McCarthy looks with a full offseason in the lab working on his mechanics. Until he started playing on our team, I don't think I've ever seen a QB whip around his back leg like he's pitching from the mound. 

But even if Kwesi didn't fall asleep, where does Mac Jones, Brissett, Winston or even Daniel Jones get this team? Still nowhere. 

And honestly, aside from *maybe* Daniel Jones, I don't think that Wentz was much of a step back from the others. No, I do not buy into the Mac Jones' redemption arc. He's still a weak-armed, statue, game-manager.

[Mike Sixel]

3 minutes ago, nicksaviking said:

But even if Kwesi didn't fall asleep, where does Mac Jones, Brissett, Winston or even Daniel Jones get this team? Still nowhere. 

And honestly, aside from *maybe* Daniel Jones, I don't think that Wentz was much of a step back from the others. No, I do not buy into the Mac Jones' redemption arc. He's still a weak armed game manager.

I wanted a veteran to be there as a mentor......come on. You can't have no mentor. And no, bosses (coaches) are not the same at all. They just aren't. 

[nicksaviking]

Just now, Mike Sixel said:

I wanted a veteran to be there as a mentor......come on. You can't have no mentor. And no, bosses (coaches) are not the same at all. They just aren't. 

Sure, that makes sense. I'm not sure the quality of on field skill matters then in that regard. And Mac Jones has only been in the league four years, so as far as mentorship goes, he's probably no more qualified than Sam Howell was. 

[Mike Sixel]

Just now, nicksaviking said:

Sure, that makes sense. I'm not sure the quality of on field skill matters then in that regard. And Mac Jones has only been in the league four years, so as far as mentorship goes, he's probably no more qualified than Sam Howell was. 

agreed. I was certainly not arguing for Jones! 

[Vanimal46]

8 minutes ago, nicksaviking said:

But even if Kwesi didn't fall asleep, where does Mac Jones, Brissett, Winston or even Daniel Jones get this team? Still nowhere. 

And honestly, aside from *maybe* Daniel Jones, I don't think that Wentz was much of a step back from the others. No, I do not buy into the Mac Jones' redemption arc. He's still a weak-armed, statue, game-manager.

I know you’re hyper fixated on Super Bowl and nothing else matters, but all of those guys have a higher floor than Wentz and JJ this year. They all do next year as well unless McCarthy hits the lab this offseason and looks like a completely different QB. 

[nicksaviking]

4 minutes ago, Vanimal46 said:

I know you’re hyper fixated on Super Bowl and nothing else matters, but all of those guys have a higher floor than Wentz and JJ this year. They all do next year as well unless McCarthy hits the lab this offseason and looks like a completely different QB. 

Those guys are all in the same bucket as Wentz. Aside from Winston, who sounds like a great clubhouse guy, but is an absolute trainwreck as an on-field QB. And this is coming from a guy who didn't like Wentz coming here.

Agree with Mike that having a veteran there all summer might have helped JJ. Though, to me it looks like he needs more help than just a veteran QB.

And I do understand this team is likely still going to roll with him next year.

[Vanimal46]

13 minutes ago, nicksaviking said:

Those guys are all in the same bucket as Wentz. Aside from Winston, who sounds like a great clubhouse guy, but is an absolute trainwreck as an on-field QB. And this is coming from a guy who didn't like Wentz coming here.

Agree with Mike that having a veteran there all summer might have helped JJ. Though, to me it looks like he needs more help than just a veteran QB.

And I do understand this team is likely still going to roll with him next year.

Not that it’s an enormous difference but I’d put Wentz in a tier below those guys. There’s a reason he was sitting on his couch until the Vikings called 5 days before week 1 

[nicksaviking]

15 minutes ago, Vanimal46 said:

Not that it’s an enormous difference but I’d put Wentz in a tier below those guys. There’s a reason he was sitting on his couch until the Vikings called 5 days before week 1 

He was sitting on a couch because he was delusional enough to think he could land a starting job with a team that had a QB go down in camp. It was a bad look, it certainly rubbed me the wrong way, but as far as on field talent, I don't really think he was behind the others.

Personally, I probably like Brissett the best as he can chuck it down field and he seems like a good clubhouse guy. However, those Cardinals aren't looking very competitive with him and it looks like a lot of his yards are coming in garbage time. After that, I might go with Wentz if we had that same decision to make next year. I didn't see the pompous diva or phony religious stuff he was known for, and until the game he had to get dragged off the field, he did keep them in every game. Maybe more importantly he was surprisingly even better than Darnold in terms of getting Jefferson the ball. That last part is going to be a big selling point for me next year as I don't think Jefferson is as disgruntled as many think he must be, but I don't want him getting there either. If we're not looking at actually competing next year, I might take the known over the unknown considering the best player on the team averaged 7 catches on 10 targets for 95 yards per game when Wentz played.

Also, I don't want a guy I'd have to commit multiple years to. So no Kyler Murray and no Mac Jones, even if they were considered more talented. If they're punting on QB next year, 2027 absolutely has to be another attempt to get an elite franchise QB. With or without KAM and KOC.

[TheLeviathan]

2 hours ago, Mike Sixel said:

Sure need a lot of help on this team......they might be down to one WR after this year, almost certainly after '26......

Agreed, but I think the WR move happens the year after when we trade Addison.  If we decide to deal Addison this year, then that position skyrockets up the board of need.

I hope they find a way to keep Nailor around actually.  Be nice if we played Felton so we could find out if he's a dude or not.

[Mike Sixel]

11 minutes ago, TheLeviathan said:

Agreed, but I think the WR move happens the year after when we trade Addison.  If we decide to deal Addison this year, then that position skyrockets up the board of need.

I hope they find a way to keep Nailor around actually.  Be nice if we played Felton so we could find out if he's a dude or not.

They really need to put Felton out there this year, agreed. 

I'm hoping they deal Addison this year. I'd do him and a 3rd for a first....something like that, to a contender. 

[nicksaviking]

6 minutes ago, Mike Sixel said:

They really need to put Felton out there this year, agreed. 

I'm hoping they deal Addison this year. I'd do him and a 3rd for a first....something like that, to a contender. 

I just looked it up, are trades really not allowed until March 11? 

That's two full months Addison has to avoid doing something terrible while he's free to operate in the world without adult supervision.

[Mike Sixel]

3 minutes ago, nicksaviking said:

I just looked it up, are trades really not allowed until March 11? 

That's two full months Addison has to avoid doing something terrible while he's free to operate in the world without adult supervision.

hahahaha. We can hope.....

[TheLeviathan]

3 hours ago, Mike Sixel said:

They really need to put Felton out there this year, agreed. 

I'm hoping they deal Addison this year. I'd do him and a 3rd for a first....something like that, to a contender. 

I would do that too, but I question how much value he's lost this season.

[Mike Sixel]

35 minutes ago, TheLeviathan said:

I would do that too, but I question how much value he's lost this season.

I'd guess they all get a pass, hahaha, for playing with McCarthy.