Twins Pitching Philosophy

[CDog]

Would the Twins have recognized Johnson as a once in a generation pitcher those first 4 years he was wild and struggling, or would they have told him to ... throw more strikes.

Everybody recognized Johnson's potential. It was freakish. I'm sure you're quite right that the Twins staff of today would probably try to get him to harness that with more control. Encourage him to walk fewer batters, even as drastically as cutting them in half. Maybe bringing him up slowly, even when fans knowing his extreme power were clamoring for him to be promoted from the minors.

 

In related nws, Johnson didn't come up to the majors until a cup of coffee at 24 and then fully at age 25. He walked 5.4, 4.9, 6.8, and 6.2 batters/9 in his first four years (not counting that cup of coffee) and was a solid pitcher with WAR values averaging just over 2 per year. Then he found the control that the Twins would have been trying to get him to harness and walked 3.5 and 3.8 batters per nine the next two years and for the first time started getting Cy Young votes. He took the "Twins'" advice to heart from this success and lowered his walk rate even more to 2.7 the next year when he finally won a Cy Young award. He returned to that "getting votes" level of success with 3.7 and 3.3 walks/9 and then got back down to 2.3, 2.8, 2.6, and 2.5 the next four years when he happened to win 4 straight Cy Young awards. He was then approaching 40 and kept his walk rate down through the rest of his career. So the "Twins" would have, had the pitcher been willing AND able to heed their advice, created a 5-time Cy Young award winner who dominated for a decade and a half. I like what the "Twins Way" did there.

[Riverbrian]

If your pitching philosophy is to not walk batters. It's a great philosophy. If your Defensive philosophy is to not give the other team extra outs. It's a great philosophy. Batters will fail 7 to 8 times out of 10. Take the odds of that and play ball.

 

It's the free stuff... Errors and Walks that will kill you in the end.

 

Managing a Baseball Team and playing Texas Hold Em are a lotta like. Those that understand the odds and play the odds don't always win every hand but they win more then they lose and therefore win.

[Mike Sixel]

Except their best pitchers are/were strikeout pitchers, Santana, Garza, Viola, Liriano when he could. Now they have none, so let's see how well it plays out, and hope it is not like last year.

[diehardtwinsfan]

We've seen a lot of Liriano since 2008, and his only consistency is his inconsistency. The only factor that's been the same for that long is the coaches, so they're an easy scapegoat. But I think it's close to time for Twins fans to admit that Liriano may never have been all that good in the first place. MLB hitters hadn't seen him much when he dominated in 2006, but they've caught up to him.

I see your point, except that Liriano has yet to hit the velocity he had back in 2006 too, just saying... For Liriano, much of this is just confidence, something he had tons of in 2006 and hasn't had a lot of since.

[gunnarthor]

Except their best pitchers are/were strikeout pitchers, Santana, Garza, Viola, Liriano when he could. Now they have none, so let's see how well it plays out, and hope it is not like last year.

Radke wasn't a strike out pitcher. Milton wasn't much of one but had three straight 3+ WAR seasons for us (Garza has two in his career). Mays led the league in ERA+ and was second in pWAR. Silva gave us 3 strong seasons. etc, etc

[John Bonnes]

I'm a little shocked that Billy Bullock seems to be thought of as the "smoking gun" in this investigation. First, I'll point out that Bullock has done almost nothing. He's a relief pitcher with 6K/9 last year in AA. One could reasonably make a point that the Twins came out ahead in that trade, regardless of philosophy. He might end up with a better career than Diamond, but right now there is no reason to believe that. Second, I'll point out that was under Bill Smith's watch, and he seems to have made several questionable evaluations regarding talent.

[whydidnt]

Everybody recognized Johnson's potential. It was freakish. I'm sure you're quite right that the Twins staff of today would probably try to get him to harness that with more control. Encourage him to walk fewer batters, even as drastically as cutting them in half. Maybe bringing him up slowly, even when fans knowing his extreme power were clamoring for him to be promoted from the minors.

 

In related nws, Johnson didn't come up to the majors until a cup of coffee at 24 and then fully at age 25. He walked 5.4, 4.9, 6.8, and 6.2 batters/9 in his first four years (not counting that cup of coffee) and was a solid pitcher with WAR values averaging just over 2 per year. Then he found the control that the Twins would have been trying to get him to harness and walked 3.5 and 3.8 batters per nine the next two years and for the first time started getting Cy Young votes. He took the "Twins'" advice to heart from this success and lowered his walk rate even more to 2.7 the next year when he finally won a Cy Young award. He returned to that "getting votes" level of success with 3.7 and 3.3 walks/9 and then got back down to 2.3, 2.8, 2.6, and 2.5 the next four years when he happened to win 4 straight Cy Young awards. He was then approaching 40 and kept his walk rate down through the rest of his career. So the "Twins" would have, had the pitcher been willing AND able to heed their advice, created a 5-time Cy Young award winner who dominated for a decade and a half. I like what the "Twins Way" did there.

Thanks for missing my point. Johnson had 4 straight years of awful control numbers (which I posted in my first post), yet was allowed to learn and grow into the pitcher he became. My question is what would have happened if he was with the Twins then. I have serious doubts the Twins would have sent him to the mound every 5 days for 4 years while he was walking 5+ batters per 9 innings. They just don't have the tolerance for it, regardless of the arm. And, really WAR has no bearing on the question at hand, do you think Anderson or Gardenhire even know what WAR is, much less care?

[CDog]

Thanks for missing my point. Johnson had 4 straight years of awful control numbers (which I posted in my first post), yet was allowed to learn and grow into the pitcher he became. My question is what would have happened if he was with the Twins then. I have serious doubts the Twins would have sent him to the mound every 5 days for 4 years while he was walking 5+ batters per 9 innings. They just don't have the tolerance for it, regardless of the arm. And, really WAR has no bearing on the question at hand, do you think Anderson or Gardenhire even know what WAR is, much less care?

Oops. I did miss your point, which you've now stated clearly was to ignore an answer to your question that wasn't the one you were already decided on. I went and answered it with my thoughts and not yours. Clearly I missed the point. My apologies.

[whydidnt]

Oops. I did miss your point, which you've now stated clearly was to ignore an answer to your question that wasn't the one you were already decided on. I went and answered it with my thoughts and not yours. Clearly I missed the point. My apologies.

I see what you did there... Very nice!

[nicksaviking]

Considering in over 50 seasons the Twins have drafted and developed two ace quality pitchers, Bert Blyleven and Frank Viola, yes there is a history of shying away from power arms (and neither were power arms, Bert had the world's best curve and Frankie the best change up previous to Greg Maddox). However, there is evidence that the team has acknowledged this flaw. The team used two high picks on high upside/high bust arms Hudson Boyd and Madison Boer last year. In years past, they both would have been told to head to the pen as soon as the contract was signed. Now they are both being counted on to start despite one of them having been an accomplished collegiate closer.

 

Of course a skeptic would ask why did the club go after Jason Marquis instead of Edwin Jackson to fill out this year's rotation if both only required a one year deal.