In a Way, the Twins Made the Playoffs Last Night

[jmlease1]

32 minutes ago, Ron said:

 

After a period of time Rod Carew said he did not believe Calvin was racist. He brought him to his office and said he would trade him to the Angels because he couldn't pay him what he was worth. Carew said a racist wouldn't have done that. Calvin, for all his flaws has been wrongly smeared. It was time for him to sell when he did, but it's unfortunate it was the Pohlads. 

Rod Carew is a nice guy and may have forgiven Calvin, and he's entitled to believe what he wants. but the dude said what he said and did what he did.

Twins ownership has never been great. Carl was willing to have the team contracted, an unforgiveable sin. Jim was cheap, but at least stayed out of the way. Joe...I'm not entirely sure if he's really in control of the budget at the end of the day, but if he is...his tenure has started out poorly because the people that deserve the biggest share from this season's failure is ownership.

For me it goes like this: 

1. Ownership
2. Players
3. Front office
4. On-field staff

All are culpable to some degree, the priority goes like this for me. Players at the end of the day can almost never be lower than 3rd, because they are so far and away the biggest deciders on who wins and loses. There's enough under-achieving, poor play, etc for them to get 2nd. I rank the front office lower because ownership's unwillingness ot spend put them in a position where they took more risks on health than could be borne. yes, they missed on a number of things, but were almost hamstrung. I still believe that the managers and coaches in baseball have less impact on the game than any of the major team sports, so while Rocco & company have some misses this season, they rank 4th for me.

[S Bart]

4 hours ago, Ron said:

The Correa signing was one of the biggest blunders in Twins history. He can give Rocco all the death stares he wants. He was and is damaged goods. 30 million/year for what?

To be fair to him, he is a good SS and has hit the last few days. He needs to work on this plantar issue during the winter. He can help support his feet issue by doing some Phy. Rehab. this winter. If it returns and he ends up missing another 2 months of the season next year. You will be correct. He will be a Buxton Part 2.

[JensenGregory]

5 hours ago, Karbo said:

This team has been a collection of chokers. Pressure effects some people that way. Too much pressure and too many guys with their hands around their throats too win. Now we can think about next season. But really, how much will change? Mostly the same chokers. Such a beautiful ballpark that sits 1/2 empty due to so many fans that either can't afford tickets in a tight economy, or people that have better things to do than watch a team lose again. Changes need to be made. Will Falvey be back? What about the coaching staff? Something must change!

I think you're being too hard on some of the players, personally. Due to some injuries throughout the year, but primarily due to the lack of payroll that would have allowed the front office to stock the team with reliable veteran depth, a lot of pressure was put on the young, developing players to be something they weren't ready for. I personally think the younger players will be better in the long run for what they had to go through this year, but ownership also did them a disservice in the short-term because their tightened finances required them to be ready now when, in reality, it was pretty unreasonable to expect all of them to be ready to carry the load themselves.

[Ron]

59 minutes ago, NYCTK said:

Holy ****, I was completely unaware of what he said. So the Minnesota Twins have been a trash organization their entire existence in Minnesota? That tracks I guess. 

Once again, Calvin said some stupid things. Just so you know a lot of people said and still do say stupid things. That doesn't mean they are trash. Most of us were happy when Calvin sold - he was a dinosaur who's time had passed. Little did we know what we bargained for. . 

[laloesch]

2 hours ago, Sjoski said:

I wish it was only 30 million. Twins actually forked over 36 million this year...and 36 more in 2025.

Imagine how an extra 6 million could of been used on the bullpen? And in 2025, 2026, 2027,  2028.

If this isn't the worst contract in Twins history, can someone show me one that is?

It's a horrible contract, considering he's hurt almost as much as Byron Buxton is year in year out.  This is an albatross contract and the Twins are stuck with it for at least the next 4 seasons.  Easily the worst deal they've ever penciled on paper going back as long as I can remember.  The Joe Mays deal was bad too, but not remotely on the same planet as far as dollars and sense go.  

[laloesch]

6 minutes ago, JensenGregory said:

I think you're being too hard on some of the players, personally. Due to some injuries throughout the year, but primarily due to the lack of payroll that would have allowed the front office to stock the team with reliable veteran depth, a lot of pressure was put on the young, developing players to be something they weren't ready for. I personally think the younger players will be better in the long run for what they had to go through this year, but ownership also did them a disservice in the short-term because their tightened finances required them to be ready now when, in reality, it was pretty unreasonable to expect all of them to be ready to carry the load themselves.

IMO this collapse we've witnessed the last 12-16 games is not because of youth or lack of payroll it's just them choking and badly.  Rocco has lost them as well.  He needs to be replaced.

[David Maro]

Here's what will happen,Rocco goes but Tingler stays.Same guy just shorter,only believes in all analytics,has no feel for the game.You only have to look back at his time with the Padres.

[rv78]

4 hours ago, Twins_Fan_in_NJ said:

We shall see. Book on Correa isn't closed yet. 

Maybe not, but the chapters when he has been a Twin haven't been worth reading when it comes to his superstar salary. He's played in 150 or more games in a season ONCE in his 10 year career. And of those 10 seasons, 5 of them have been shortened by injury. I think the "damaged goods" claim is reasonably accurate. Then take into consideration athletes with a history of injuries usually don't age well. The book looks like a floppy paperback that will never be on the best sellers list. Now the FO must deal with the mega salary that hampers their ability to bring in talent that will actually help the team.

[NYCTK]

1 hour ago, Ron said:

Once again, Calvin said some stupid things. Just so you know a lot of people said and still do say stupid things. That doesn't mean they are trash. Most of us were happy when Calvin sold - he was a dinosaur who's time had passed. Little did we know what we bargained for. . 

I don't know why we're on here defending extreme levels of racism, but I guess a late season collapse does lead to wild events.

 

[Ron]

36 minutes ago, NYCTK said:

I don't know why we're on here defending extreme levels of racism, but I guess a late season collapse does lead to wild events.

 

No one is defending extreme racism.

[JensenGregory]

2 hours ago, Ron said:

No one is defending extreme racism.

Calvin didn't just "say stupid things." Quit minimizing what he did.

[S Bart]

7 hours ago, Ron said:

Ridiculous. You are denying who the Pohlads are. For all of Calvin's flaws he did love baseball and sold it out of necessity. He brought the franchise here and hated selling the team. I've watched and supported the Twins since the 70's so I have every right to point a finger at ownership. They tore down the wrong statue.

Agree about Calvin and the Griffiths were a family dynasty. It was a different era when stadiums were named after people or areas and not companies. Regardless, Calvin did care about the team. 

[S Bart]

10 hours ago, Nashvilletwin said:

Another blame it on the cheap Pohlads comment. Sheesh, it’s the oldest bellyache broken record in the book.

First, there is no doubt that the EQUITY value of the Twins has grown exponentially since the team was purchased.  You are 100% correct. However, given the current environment, it’s not clear that such growth will continue. There are risks to the former model of an ever rising tide raising all ships. Just because it happened in the past does not mean it will continue in perpetuity. Smart investors know that trees don’t grow to the sky and the Pohlads have been pretty shrewd investors over two generations now.

Second, you will notice that I “suggested” that it may be “possible” that the Twins over the entire franchise might be losing tens of millions annually on a CASH basis. If so, how are those cash losses funded?  Do they take from their auto or property businesses to put into the baseball business? What if the ROI for capital in the other businesses is higher? What if the other businesses actually don’t have the cash?  Where does that cash come from and how much should be put in annually to fund baseball over the “possible” tens of millions they are already fronting the business? Maybe the decision is already to invest $___millions in annual losses to make $____ millions in future equity value. In other words, the Pohlads may actually already be employing the strategy you are implying, but just not to the extent you wish.

Third, you need to get over it.  The Pohlads are not going to become vanity spenders on baseball. They never will. So until they sell, which they seemingly have no intent on doing, please come up with constructive ideas as to how to build a consistent winner (which by the way, the Twins have pretty much done over the past half decade anyway) given the business model under which they operate.

At the end of the day, you really have four choices: 1. Continue to harp about how cheap the Pohlads are (which is fine if that makes you happy); 2.  Find another team where that isn’t an issue; 3. Stay a Twins fan and enjoy cheering for your favorite team while carping about things that could possibly be changed; or 4. Earn enough money to make the Pohlads an offer they can’t refuse and then you can spend all you want (with whatever results that may or may not bring).

Personally, I’m choosing #3 and working on #4.  

Okay..I will think about contacting them about #4 and see if I can cut a check next month. I will choose #5. As a fan/customer, I do have a right to comment. This format available/being used allows us to take that approach. A person putting forth comments here has the right to comment how they wish. I cheer on the team but offer both positive and negative comments (some strongly) as well as suggestions on players. I am writing the Board members some suggestions as to how I feel as a customer next month. I have already started the letter. The Twins are a product/business that has the word Minnesota on the uniform. They hold themselves out as a type of community organization in many formats. As a customer, I am going to comment as I wish. It's the same way you are putting forth with your numbers and make your comments as you wish. If the negative comments bothers anybody using this posting arena, perhaps you should not look at Twins Daily. Anyway. Go Twins....

 

[Nashvilletwin]

36 minutes ago, S Bart said:

Okay..I will think about contacting them about #4 and see if I can cut a check next month. I will choose #5. As a fan/customer, I do have a right to comment. This format available/being used allows us to take that approach. A person putting forth comments here has the right to comment how they wish. I cheer on the team but offer both positive and negative comments (some strongly) as well as suggestions on players. I am writing the Board members some suggestions as to how I feel as a customer next month. I have already started the letter. The Twins are a product/business that has the word Minnesota on the uniform. They hold themselves out as a type of community organization in many formats. As a customer, I am going to comment as I wish. It's the same way you are putting forth with your numbers and make your comments as you wish. If the negative comments bothers anybody using this posting arena, perhaps you should not look at Twins Daily. Anyway. Go Twins....

 

That was choice #3.   Stay a fan and carp all you want. So carp away - it’s your right and I respect you for it.  And, yes, Go Twins!

[S Bart]

23 minutes ago, Nashvilletwin said:

That was choice #3.   Stay a fan and carp all you want. So carp away - it’s your right and I respect you for it.  And, yes, Go Twins!

Well...kind of. You didn't mention writing each board members about positive suggestions which is why I added #5. Otherwise, yes.

I sincerely believe that contributing thoughts to the Board that runs the operations is beneficial. I am not going to state "FIRE ROCCO" despite the thought of a change in manager might be needed. A well written/thought provoking communication about making them fully understand the whole thing from a fan's perspective is important. One additional item related to your prior comment about owner spending is important to understand in my view and was noted on the SKOR NORTH PODCAST. One has to spend money to make money at times. Attendance is down this year which impacts tickets, concessions, clothing sales, etc. basically the bottom-line net profit.  An owner may have to spend money and lose a bit one year, but it can build a team for the future which ultimately produces a higher income profit. On Skor North, they presented successful examples of this taking place with other teams. What took place at the deadline was a key reason why they did poorly in September (in addition the lack of hitting). They attempted to pick up numerous pitchers in September but then released them. They will end up only 1-3 games behind the playoff entrance as of Sunday or HOPEFULLY push through and make the playoffs if their 1991 foe Atlanta wipes up with KC this weekend. I do applaud Correa and Buxton after watching them this weekend in Boston. The games stunk, but I did see effort from the two.

Yes...Go Twins. WE may complain and get mad at times, but we would not be fans if we were not on Twins Daily.