Beating the Shift

[chpettit19]

2 minutes ago, tony&rodney said:

We used extreme shifts in the 1960s (even going to four outfielders or five infielders as the situation dictated) in al of grade school, VFW, high school, and legion ball. It is more common now but not new in any sense. 

I oppose banning the shift and unlike some others I do appreciate an out recorded on a hard hit ball just as broken bat hits are a part of the game. There are plenty of changes that can be made if people want changes to increase offense. Ball 3 is a walk and strike 4 and you are out. That would cause an increase in offense. If people want the game to have more tempo, allow the umpires to enforce the current rules that dictate a player needs to be ready to hit and the pitcher needs to pitch. Many of the changes just increase the time (challenges for example). I do think that electronic signals between pitcher and catcher speed up the game and is a positive change. It disrupts nothing.

I didn't say it was new. Ted Williams was shifted against a bunch. But I promise you are the minority if you were using a high number of shifts through grade school, VFW, high school, and legion ball. It having been done before doesn't mean we should keep doing it or that it's not a problem now. I don't know if your 3 ball, 4 strike suggestion is real or not, but that's a drastically greater change to the game than having the fielders play where 99% of kids playing the game today play the entire time. And 3 ball walks wouldn't fix the problem of a lack of action, it'd add to it. Would more runs score? Probably, but would the action and excitement grow? Not at all. It'd be like watching basketball games that turn into free throw contests at the end. The score keeps going up, but there's nothing exciting about watching teams shoot free throw after free throw like there'd be no excitement in watching teams take walk after walk.

No problem with you appreciating an out on a hard hit ball. I appreciate it, too. Just not when the out is recorded because the 2B is playing 40 feet in the grass in right or standing directly behind second. The question isn't increasing offense, it's increasing excitement and action. It's not about keeping fans like us around, it's about adding fans. It's about keeping the younger generations engage and tuning in. The shift is part of what hurts the excitement and action (certainly not the only thing), and it's a pretty simple fix that doesn't really change the game since it's actually going back to what the average kid relates to. 

[tony&rodney]

3 minutes ago, chpettit19 said:

I didn't say it was new. Ted Williams was shifted against a bunch. But I promise you are the minority if you were using a high number of shifts through grade school, VFW, high school, and legion ball. It having been done before doesn't mean we should keep doing it or that it's not a problem now. I don't know if your 3 ball, 4 strike suggestion is real or not, but that's a drastically greater change to the game than having the fielders play where 99% of kids playing the game today play the entire time. And 3 ball walks wouldn't fix the problem of a lack of action, it'd add to it. Would more runs score? Probably, but would the action and excitement grow? Not at all. It'd be like watching basketball games that turn into free throw contests at the end. The score keeps going up, but there's nothing exciting about watching teams shoot free throw after free throw like there'd be no excitement in watching teams take walk after walk.

No problem with you appreciating an out on a hard hit ball. I appreciate it, too. Just not when the out is recorded because the 2B is playing 40 feet in the grass in right or standing directly behind second. The question isn't increasing offense, it's increasing excitement and action. It's not about keeping fans like us around, it's about adding fans. It's about keeping the younger generations engage and tuning in. The shift is part of what hurts the excitement and action (certainly not the only thing), and it's a pretty simple fix that doesn't really change the game since it's actually going back to what the average kid relates to. 

Ok. We just disagree on this. No problem. Manfred is going to do what he wants anyways. 

[Mike Sixel]

On 4/15/2022 at 9:26 AM, 4twinsJA said:

To me, it is up to the batters to make the adjustment. I have never understood a batter eliminating 1/3 to 1/2 of the field and just being a pull hitter. I dislike the shift, maybe some minor adjustments like having to have at least one foot on the dirt and 2 infielders on each side of second base. I hate a weak ground ball hit where infielders would be in if in regular alignment going for a hit. If you are going to use the shift, then you have to pitch to the shift, leaving ball on outer part of plate to slap into the area vacated by the shift should not happen.

You should read Joey Votto's tweets..... One of the greatest hitters around says it's a lot harder than you think. 

 

[Mike Sixel]

In the interest of more action, I'm good with banning the shift. 

[wsnydes]

48 minutes ago, Mike Sixel said:

You should read Joey Votto's tweets..... One of the greatest hitters around says it's a lot harder than you think. 

 

Interestingly enough, watching Kepler hit yesterday, you could see that he was trying not to pull the ball on at least two occasions where he made contact.  On replays, you could see his hands getting through the zone first, dragging the barrel of the bat.  That part isn't so hard, but you still have to time up the pitch.  And that's the hardest part in the first place.

[4twinsJA]

47 minutes ago, Mike Sixel said:

You should read Joey Votto's tweets..... One of the greatest hitters around says it's a lot harder than you think

I agree, after you have been hitting that way as long as Votto has it would be difficult. Need to start much earlier in player's development. 

[GNess]

Yes, hitters should work on many things that could counter the shift. But for the most part they aren't, and they get paid to hit bombs / producing runs.

Make the game better by eliminating or reducing how and when shifts can be deployed.

That will bring more action to the typical fan and maybe draw the interest of more kids and people younger than 50. (Full disclosure I am over 50.)