Brett Myers

[old nurse]

You're really going to pick nits of 10 contracts versus 12? Good lord.

I guess making fun of Jokin was missed.

[jokin]

I guess making fun of Jokin was missed.

 

I guess flailing around and unwilling to admit you were obviously wrong when presented with your own posts was missed.

 

FWIW- Signing a dozen pitchers to minor league contracts would fulfill my proposal------ even if you just strike gold just once and get a DeVries/Deduno find you would still be better off than overpaying for the mediocrity that is Correia----- and---- still leave room left over to sign a Jason Frasor-type the BP.

[FrodaddyG]

Do you know the difference between a major league contract and a minor league contract? Are you completely unaware what Harden signed was a minor league contract?

Are you completely unaware that guys like Deduno and DeVries are generally brought in on minor league deals?

[old nurse]

I guess flailing around and unwilling to admit you were obviously wrong when presented with your own posts was missed.

 

FWIW- Signing a dozen pitchers to minor league contracts would fulfill my proposal------ even if you just strike gold just once and get a DeVries/Deduno find you would still be better off than overpaying for the mediocrity that is Correia----- and---- still leave room left over to sign a Jason Frasor-type the BP.

Continued whining about the Correa signing on your part. There is a reason why at age 29 Deduno has had only 15 big league starts. The absurdity of trying to say the Twins would be better off with this mediocre pitcher over another is what I have been trying to get at. But if you come right out and say people are absurd they take it as a personal insult and complain. That a 5 million contract somehow limits the Twins in signing someone is equally absurd. At the end of the year the results may not be different with any of the low tier free agents or pitchers like Deduno and DeVries. From the pile of free agent arms Correia was chosen. When other pitchers visit the dl, Deduno and DeVries will get their chances. There is still a chance for the Twins to sign quality arms. If they do sign and history repeats itself, Correia can come out of the bullpen and start. By history the results appear to be better than Swarzak's. If you signed a dozen fringe AAA pitchers then wouldn't you get complaining that they are blocking prospects much like the complaining of the outfield and others at Rochester last year.

[old nurse]

Are you completely unaware that guys like Deduno and DeVries are generally brought in on minor league deals?

 

Really??? The original comment was about Harden's contract and the author seemed completely unaware. It has nothing to do with DeVries and Deduno and how they were brought in or the contract they signed. The hope for Harden is completely different than a DeVries or Deduno.

[FrodaddyG]

Really??? The original comment was about Harden's contract and the author seemed completely unaware. It has nothing to do with DeVries and Deduno and how they were brought in or the contract they signed. The hope for Harden is completely different than a DeVries or Deduno.

So when you said they could "only get 10 Dedunos or DeVrieses" for Correia's contract, those would somehow be $500K minor league deals?

[jokin]

Continued whining about the Correa signing on your part There is still a chance for the Twins to sign quality arms.

 

 

This is the problem with your side in this debate. Calling a spade, a spade is "whining". While your side keeps thinking that: wishing for, hoping for, even praying for, that big signing, that "something different" move is going to happen, than what they've always predictably done in the past.

[old nurse]

So when you said they could "only get 10 Dedunos or DeVrieses" for Correia's contract, those would somehow be $500K minor league deals?

Are Deduno, DeVries or any other pitcher like them with less than a couple years service time going to get anything more than a major league minimum when they are in the majors. At least be aware it was Jokin who said they could get 12 Deduno and DeVries for Correia's contract. If they were all on the major league roster, Jokin's math would be off by 2 pitchers. If you were following along the thread you would have also noticed I said I was making light of the absurdity of the comment by Jokin. And since you want to be serious, what does Harden's contract have to do with Dedono or DeVries since you brought it up?

[old nurse]

This is the problem with your side in this debate. Calling a spade, a spade is "whining". While your side keeps thinking that: wishing for, hoping for, even praying for, that big signing, that "something different" move is going to happen, than what they've always predictably done in the past.

 

The amount of negative energy directed at a player that is hoped to be a 6th starter, disaster plan is just amazing.

It is not a spade so you can't call it that. That is why I view it as whining. Retort all you want. I am done.

[edavis0308]

The amount of negative energy directed at a player that is hoped to be a 6th starter, disaster plan is just amazing.

It is not a spade so you can't call it that. That is why I view it as whining. Retort all you want. I am done.

 

A 6th starter that doesnt have the stuff to be more than a mopup man in the bullpen, that is destined to be DFA'ed and joining Blackburn in Rochester. Oh, and we will have him next year too.

 

I should add that I hope the guy can give us 180-200+ innings of <=4.50ERA and be able to hold his own to give us some value. History just isn't on his side. I'm moving on past this whole scuffle.

[PseudoSABR]

This is the problem with your side in this debate. Calling a spade, a spade is "whining". While your side keeps thinking that: wishing for, hoping for, even praying for, that big signing, that "something different" move is going to happen, than what they've always predictably done in the past.

If you tell me the sky is blue, I'd go outside to check. You're equating Correa to guys with less 100 IP of ML ball. I think you're definition of what a spade is changes depending on whatever argument you seem to be making.

[FrodaddyG]

Are Deduno, DeVries or any other pitcher like them with less than a couple years service time going to get anything more than a major league minimum when they are in the majors. At least be aware it was Jokin who said they could get 12 Deduno and DeVries for Correia's contract. If they were all on the major league roster, Jokin's math would be off by 2 pitchers. If you were following along the thread you would have also noticed I said I was making light of the absurdity of the comment by Jokin. And since you want to be serious, what does Harden's contract have to do with Dedono or DeVries since you brought it up?

In this hypothetical, these aren't ten guys signed and given MLB roster spots. These are guys given minors deals to come in with the hopes that one or two pitch well enough to eat MLB innings at some point during the season. If that happens with all ten guys, then yes, you'd be paying them $500K, but you'd also have the greatest fortune in the history of the signings of flawed, marginal players. To stretch it into "you can only pay 10 guys with Correia's salary" when referring to the types of reclamation projects that a Deduno-Devries type represents is beyond absurd. The point is that by rolling the dice on a dozen or so guys like that, there's a good chance you could more cheaply fill the kind of highly paid, mediocre-at-best production that Correia is going to give you.

[old nurse]

In this hypothetical, these aren't ten guys signed and given MLB roster spots. These are guys given minors deals to come in with the hopes that one or two pitch well enough to eat MLB innings at some point during the season. If that happens with all ten guys, then yes, you'd be paying them $500K, but you'd also have the greatest fortune in the history of the signings of flawed, marginal players. To stretch it into "you can only pay 10 guys with Correia's salary" when referring to the types of reclamation projects that a Deduno-Devries type represents is beyond absurd. The point is that by rolling the dice on a dozen or so guys like that, there's a good chance you could more cheaply fill the kind of highly paid, mediocre-at-best production that Correia is going to give you.

 

what part about it was Jokin's comment I was making fun of did you miss? Go back to where Jokin said it. Deal with him.

And you still haven't answered what does Deduno and DeVries have to do with Harden. Conveniently dodge.

The Twins tried out 5 replacement level pitchers at the major league level last year. They did not try Martis, Manship, or Matt Maloney as major league starter. There is 8 replacement pitchers from the minors for the Twins last year. None of them are in the plans for 2013. Liam Hendricks still rates as a prospect not a replacement, otherwise there would be 9 for last year. So they should try and find another 10? Don't answer. It is pointless.

[FrodaddyG]

what part about it was Jokin's comment I was making fun of did you miss? Go back to where Jokin said it. Deal with him.

And you still haven't answered what does Deduno and DeVries have to do with Harden. Conveniently dodge.

The Twins tried out 5 replacement level pitchers at the major league level last year. They did not try Martis, Manship, or Matt Maloney as major league starter. There is 8 replacement pitchers from the minors for the Twins last year. None of them are in the plans for 2013. Liam Hendricks still rates as a prospect not a replacement, otherwise there would be 9 for last year. So they should try and find another 10? Don't answer. It is pointless.

Deduno and Devries relate because until they got "the call" to patch up the sinking rotation, they were making the same nothing that Harden will be making in the minors if he doesn't make the team. That's why signing a load of those guys is basically free to the team, as opposed to guaranteeing 100 times that to Correia to be a likely below-average pitcher, for each of the next two years, no less. Guess who we also will probably not want "in the plans" for 2014? Correia. But the Twins will still be on the hook for $5M, instead of nothing.

 

You act like this is even my point. It isn't. But then you jumped in and made your "hilarious joke" of a counter-argument, and the sheer idiocy and irrelevancy of it required comment. It's not like I'm alone in noticing this. Good lord, can we just get a name change from "old" to "senile" and get it over with?

[snepp]

So, about that Brett Myers guy....

[Top Gun]

According to Darren Wolfson of 1500 ESPN, Twins assistant GM Rob Antony gave the impression that the Twins did not attend Javier Vasquez's tryout in Puerto Rico on Friday.

 

Antony also made it sound like making a big move for a starter, such as Shawn Marcum or Joe Saunders, wasn't going to happen. Barring an upgrade, the Twins will head into spring training with Vance Worley, Scott Diamond and Kevin Correia as the top three pitchers in their rotation.

Related: Twins

[old nurse]

Deduno and Devries relate because until they got "the call" to patch up the sinking rotation, they were making the same nothing that Harden will be making in the minors if he doesn't make the team. That's why signing a load of those guys is basically free to the team, as opposed to guaranteeing 100 times that to Correia to be a likely below-average pitcher, for each of the next two years, no less. Guess who we also will probably not want "in the plans" for 2014? Correia. But the Twins will still be on the hook for $5M, instead of nothing.

 

You act like this is even my point. It isn't. But then you jumped in and made your "hilarious joke" of a counter-argument, and the sheer idiocy and irrelevancy of it required comment. It's not like I'm alone in noticing this. Good lord, can we just get a name change from "old" to "senile" and get it over with?

 

So now it is personal attacks?

Please note the pitchers recently outrighted to Rochester. In a year of overpriced pitching these gems you like had 31 other general managers think they were not major league pitchers either.

You expect the 4/5 starters to be above average? Why are they in the second half the rotation? Because they are not in the top half of the staff. i.e. Below Average. Correia has generally had a WAR around one, which puts him by the percentage shown in fan graphs to be in the middle of the pack.

http://assets.sbnation.com/assets/483944/war_distro_2010.jpg

[edavis0308]

So now it is personal attacks?

Please note the pitchers recently outrighted to Rochester. In a year of overpriced pitching these gems you like had 31 other general managers think they were not major league pitchers either.

You expect the 4/5 starters to be above average? Why are they in the second half the rotation? Because they are not in the top half of the staff. i.e. Below Average. Correia has generally had a WAR around one, which puts him by the percentage shown in fan graphs to be in the middle of the pack.

http://assets.sbnation.com/assets/483944/war_distro_2010.jpg

 

I'm not even reading your post. For someone that is claiming personal attacks coming from other people, you sure are condescending towards, oh, pretty much everyone you disagree with.

[The Wise One]

I'm not even reading your post. For someone that is claiming personal attacks coming from other people, you sure are condescending towards, oh, pretty much everyone you disagree with.

 

Condescending attiudes towards those a writer disagrees with run rampant through this thread. A difference of opinion is met with scathng remarks. No side in this so called debate is imune. Your tone is not forgiving to those who think differently than you

[70charger]

Condescending attiudes towards those a writer disagrees with run rampant through this thread. A difference of opinion is met with scathng remarks. No side in this so called debate is imune. Your tone is not forgiving to those who think differently than you

 

Hey, shut up!!

[70charger]

(That was a joke, btw.)

[jokin]

If you tell me the sky is blue, I'd go outside to check. You're equating Correa to guys with less 100 IP of ML ball. I think you're definition of what a spade is changes depending on whatever argument you seem to be making.

 

I just checked for you, the sky is currently black. For a guy who wasn't going to defend the Correia signing, you seem to go out of your way in defending the status quo Twins FO. You again go on the attack without much ammunition to back you up. The spade here is obvious to everyone, except the knee-jerk FO-defenders. $10M has been committed to an unflippable guy who as just as much chance to being a flop as being merely replacement level. The point was consistently made (was it just "asinine rhetoric"? you tell me) that the Twins can find 12 more potential replacement-level pitchers such as DeVries and Deduno for far less than what they've committed to Correia and still be able to afford to upgrade the bullpen with a Jason Frasor-type upgrade (sorry, I just can't stop repeating my "asinine rhetoric").

 

Now "just what is the color of the sky in your world"?

[PseudoSABR]

Hey, if the status quo gets us more Mays and Meyers, I'm all for it!

 

Btw, the rhetoric here isn't necessarily asinine, but it sure is butthurt.

[Shane Wahl]

I am not sure what the hell is going on here, but laying out some facts is nice:

 

The Twins not offering Brett Myers a contract is AGAIN BIZARRE. Why not OFFER contracts to these guys? If they haven't even OFFERED to Marcum . . . good god.

 

Myers is not necessarily a "character guy" at all. I wouldn't have really liked that guy in the first place, but still.

 

Kevin Correia's $10 million contract is a ridiculous signing. It's atrocious. Nick Blackburn's $5.5 million was polluting the payroll this year. Now Correia's EXACT same amount is going to pollute it next year. There was no reason to give him two years. One year and 7 million would have made more sense, but then Scott Baker . . . . Anyway, it is true that Correia is barely above replacement level since I cannot believe it gets any better than is 2012 season at this point. If this comes down to taking innings away from Hendriks, a prospect, who also could be better IMMEDIATELY than Correia in 2013 (and likely in 2014), it is just preposterous. If this comes down to merely being a shuffling part of a deck for Pelfrey and Gibson, then it isn't terrible.

 

That all said, I actually trust Nick Blackburn about as much as Correia, especially with time removed from his Twins medical staff produced injury exacerbation (just let bone chips be while you pitch!). So this wasted money is dumb, especially when you put Correia's 2013 salary together with the now gone Span salary and could get close to the yearly salary for Shaun Marcum.