CHW 3, MIN 1: Twins Leave 15 Runners On Base

[joefish]

It was a game worth forgetting. And hoping we don't have any more like that. It was a long slow boring bad game

[joefish]

It was a game worth forgetting. And hoping we don't have any more like that. It was a long slow boring bad game

[joefish]

Angel Hernandez didn’t cost us the game. However he is a horrible umpire and everyone knows it.

Berrios throws more non competitive pitches than any other good pitcher I’ve seen. Last night there had to be 15-20 pitches that had no chance so you end up with 100 pitches to get 5 innings. I keep holding out hope that something will click and he find command but I think this is it. His stuff is so good he still pitched a good game.

Wade Jr needs to be the 4th outfielder next year. Better yet find a right handed version of him. Don’t need to see Cave anymore.

[joefish]

I love your middle paragraph. Berrios doesnt seem to be able to execute a game plan. Watching Maeda execute is art. Berrios is more of a finger painter.

[h2oface]

 

Only twice -- his last two PAs. In the 6th, he struck out, in the 8th, he grounded out.

 

He also K'd in the 1st with a runner on 1st and 1 out, and he DP'd with runners at the corners and 1 out in the 3rd. But an intentional walk in the 5th!

 

Which makes it even worse.....

[h2oface]

 

Lol you guys are hilarious. Twins are on a 100 win pace even with all the injuries and you guys are in here whining and talking **** about the guy who won the Manager of the Year award last year and is in his 2nd season. Talk about overreactions. 

 

I respect your opinion, and I respect those you are disparaging. 

This is not a normal season. You can't have a 100 win pace in a 60 game season. Not apples to apples.

I would bet Rocco is even doubting some of his decisions, regardless of what he says. I hope so. Smart people don't think they are perfect, but always willing to learn.

[h2oface]

 

The key series are coming in about two weeks. The Twins are in a very good position to secure home field advantage, and they should be using every game from now until the playoffs to get as many players right as possible.

 

It is looking like there will be a bubble, and no home field, just home team for the game.

[twinbythebay]

 

It is looking like there will be a bubble, and no home field, just home team for the game.

I believe the bubbles are only for the Division Series and beyond, but the first round is still played at the higher seed's ballpark.

[h2oface]

 

But putting a ball in play (barring the very rare case of an inside the park HR) with no one on base is also, by that standard, worthless.  The problem with RBI as a stat is not that it's worthless--it's that it's completely devoid of context.

 

Let's say Eddie Rosario hits a routine ground ball to the second baseman with less than two outs.  If Byron Buxton is on third, there's a good chance Rosario gets an RBI.  If Nelson Cruz is on third, it's essentially a 0% chance Rosario gets an RBI.  Exact same batted ball by Rosario, diametrically opposite RBI outcomes.  The reason for that is because often a large part of the run being scored has absolutely nothing to do with the batter who gets credit for the RBI.  Thus, absent an accompanying, context-providing stat, RBI is at best a crude metric, and at worst, a downright misleading one.

 

If you don't understand the different mental pressure a batter faces with men on base and in scoring position, then you will always make this same argument to discount the value of RBI and the hitters that get them. But I assume you do understand the different mental pressure and context of that in the at bat, and just chose to ignore it in these cases. The run being scored has everything to do with the batter when the batter steps into the batter's box and is faced with the opportunity and added presure and intensity to knock a run in. No ball hit, no walk drawn in and bases loaded situation, and no run scored. But I am not trying to convince you. I just don't buy your angle. And you will make the same argument again. 

 

I love RBI guys, and that is why. Always have, always will. They have a history of knocking runs in, and under more mental pressure. 

[Rosterman]

How can the Twins better construct their lineup. Why are Kepler and Donaldson batting first and second?

[twinbythebay]

The run being scored has everything to do with the batter when the batter steps into the batter's box and is faced with the opportunity and added presure and intensity to knock a run in.

This is simply not true. The run being scored has a lot to do with the batter, but the baserunner(s) and the defense play a big role in the outcome as well. As someone else argued above, you're gonna have a much easier time collecting an RBI on a groundout when Byron Buxton is on third base as opposed to Nelson Cruz.

[ashbury]

Let's say Eddie Rosario someone hits a routine ground ball to the second baseman with less than two outs. If Byron Buxton is on third, there's a good chance Rosario someone gets an RBI.

Now, care to share any prophecies for tonight's game?

 

[Cap'n Piranha]

 

If you don't understand the different mental pressure a batter faces with men on base and in scoring position, then you will always make this same argument to discount the value of RBI and the hitters that get them. But I assume you do understand the different mental pressure and context of that in the at bat, and just chose to ignore it in these cases. The run being scored has everything to do with the batter when the batter steps into the batter's box and is faced with the opportunity and added presure and intensity to knock a run in. No ball hit, no walk drawn in and bases loaded situation, and no run scored. But I am not trying to convince you. I just don't buy your angle. And you will make the same argument again. 

 

I love RBI guys, and that is why. Always have, always will. They have a history of knocking runs in, and under more mental pressure. 

 

So when you see a guy with RBI's, you just assume he's better at dealing with mental pressure, without bothering to understand the context of the situation?  I don't deny that some players are better at handling mental pressure, and there could be some extra mental pressure in RBI opportunities.  However, you seem to ignore that there could also be extra mental pressure on pitchers/defenders in those situations too.  Furthermore, the pitcher usually has to pitch from the stretch instead of the windup (unless it's a reliever who always pitches from the stretch).  This is borne out by the fact that hitters generally perform better with RISP than bases empty (link at the bottom).

 

If RBI opportunities create pressure which reduces performance, than why are there broad-based (meaning across all batters) increases in average and OBP in RISP situations?

 

Given a hitter full credit for an RBI without examining context is like giving a football player full credit for a TD without examining the context.  Maybe the wide receiver ran a perfect route, adjusted for the catch, and then outran two DB's to the end zone.  Maybe the running back made a guy miss in the backfield, then broke 5 tackles while tip-toeing the sideline.  Or maybe the fullback walked into the end zone from the 1 yard line after the O-Line pushed the D-Line 3 yards backwards at the snap.  Context matters.  And that's all me, or anyone else who doesn't want to use RBI as a standalone stat, are saying.

 

https://www.baseballprospectus.com/news/article/29288/prospectus-feature-the-risp-mystery/#:~:text=So%20I%20looked%20for%20hitters,than%20in%20other%20plate%20appearances.&text=All%20of%20this%20makes%20a,appearances%20in%20a%20season%20batted%20.