Article: Seattle 12, Twins 3: Santiago Still Struggling, Dozier Still Slugging

[Taildragger8791]

 

I'd take Turley over Santiago without hesitation.

 

That's based purely on the fact that Turley is an unknown. It's very likely he'd be far worse than Santiago.

[Taildragger8791]

 

Indefinitely.    If the run differential is created by the lopsided losses then the only performances that count are the starting pitching and and the relievers who come in when the game is close.   Right now we have three starters that have ERA's under 4 which has only happened once in the last 7 years.    Not coincidentally that year was 2015 when we had the winning record.     If the quality starts are spaced out in such a way that does not tax our depth then the only ERA's by relievers that matter are Kintzler, Duffey, Rogers, Boshers and Breslow.    Who cares if Rosario has a 30 ERA if it is created by giving up 5 runs when we are already down 6?     Of course, nothing is spaced out perfectly so it would be really nice to get another 2 relievers on whom we can rely but so far the quality starts have been matched up with the quality relief pretty well.     Dare we give Molitor some credit for that?    

 

I considered that, but it's awfully difficult to consistently isolate all your 'badness' into a concentrated set of games while reserving your 'goodness' for the other set of games. Unpredictability and unintended consequences will spill over at some point. Having 3 pitchers with an ERA under 4 is nice, but we still don't know that Mejia is for real and Santana is starting to throw clunkers with more frequency (3 of his last 6 starts). Berrios will likely have ups and downs as he gets established. Something has to give, either the record will start to erode or the pitching staff will have to get shored up quickly.

[Thrylos]

 

That's based purely on the fact that Turley is an unknown. It's very likely he'd be far worse than Santiago.

 

That's highly unlikely.  The last month Santiago's numbers:

9.93 ERA and 1.941 WHIP (.292 BABIP)

 

That's barely warm body numbers...

 

[yarnivek1972]

 

That's based purely on the fact that Turley is an unknown. It's very likely he'd be far worse than Santiago.

Turley is pitching WAY better in AAA than he ever has before.  Clearly, he's doing something different.  I don't know what that is because I'd never really heard of him before.  New pitch perhaps?

 

I don't know how you can make a blanket statement that it's very likely he'd be far worse than Santiago. "FAR worse?"  It would be pretty hard for anyone to be FAR worse than Santiago lately. Santiago has been Gibson-esque horrid his last couple starts.  You wouldn't think a 21 pitch relief stint would have that much carry over.  I'm not suggesting, at this point anyway, that he be replaced.  He's earned a longer rope than that.  Kyle Gibson, on the other hand, has not.  He can be returned to AAA and replaced by Turley ASAP as far as I am concerned.  IMO, it's his turn.

[spanman2]

 

Remember when we wanted to extend Santiago?

I think the Dark Man's line says it all...RIP for certain Dark.

[spanman2]

 

Tom, I want to marry this story.

 

(But I should probably check with Chrissie first.)

Maybe you could take it out for a blind date.  Fantastic article for certain.

[Dantes929]

 

I considered that, but it's awfully difficult to consistently isolate all your 'badness' into a concentrated set of games while reserving your 'goodness' for the other set of games. Unpredictability and unintended consequences will spill over at some point. Having 3 pitchers with an ERA under 4 is nice, but we still don't know that Mejia is for real and Santana is starting to throw clunkers with more frequency (3 of his last 6 starts). Berrios will likely have ups and downs as he gets established. Something has to give, either the record will start to erode or the pitching staff will have to get shored up quickly.

Well, its not completely arbitrary.    You are matching your best relievers with the quality starts and your worst relievers with the games that already have a high probability of losing.      If the run differential is compiled by way of blow out losses it has less statistical impact.   87 Twins comes to mind.    One great starter, one decent starter, one mediocre starter and very poor bullpen.    Kelly didn't put Reardon and Buerenguer out there when the Twins were 5 runs behind.   We saw your unpredictability and unintended consequences when the Twins blew a save and it went into extra innings.   We had nothing left to hold the lead against the Astros the next day and there was probably ripple effect that continued on for a couple games.    That's where quality depth is valuable and we just don't have it right now.    As far as our rotation goes I am hoping any regression on the part of the three you named is made up for by improvement from Gibson and Santiago or who ever replaces them.    Not really disagreeing with anything you have said.    It is a fine balancing act to keep on the plus side of things but we kind of knew going in that we would need things breaking our way to have a good season.    We are where I thought we could be given good seasons from May, Gibson, Pressley, Dozier and Buxton.    Shows what I know.

[Dantes929]

Count me in for being in favor of recaps.    I used to go to the Trib for Lavelle but got too lazy.   At least, this first one is much better anyway in content and format.   Game threads are nice but feel like I have to read through 8 pages of posts to comment on the game and then not sure who is left to discuss it with, anyway.    

[bighat]

I'd rather see Gibson starting than Santiago at this point.  And I'd take Turley over both of them.

[yarnivek1972]

I'd rather see Gibson starting than Santiago at this point. And I'd take Turley over both of them.

Santiago still has more quality starts this year than non-quality starts. Gibson has zero quality starts this year and had just 8 in 25 starts last year - only two after July.

[rghrbek]

 

I am against judging young guys by two appearances but it looks like a couple of guys are as deserving or more deserving of being given the chance anyway.   I wonder why Rosario leapfrogged the three you mentioned and maybe a couple others as well.

My guess is Rosario was already on the 40 man, so they took a chance on him...

[h2oface]

 

Remember when we wanted to extend Santiago?

 

We? This is the pitcher that the Angels would trade for Nolasco and fleece the Twins and take Meyer, too. Even the pitching starved Angels were tired of him and didn't want him. I never wan't him extended or even on the team at all. 

At least Hughes had a good year. Santiago had a good month. Good thing Ryan was gone. He probably would have extended him.

[rghrbek]

 

Santiago still has more quality starts this year than non-quality starts. Gibson has zero quality starts this year and had just 8 in 25 starts last year - only two after July.

I tend to agree with this.  Even with his traditionally bad peripherals, Santiago was somewhat less of a train wreck than Nolasco.

 

Gibson is another story.  Gleeman has pointed out more than once, that he is the worst twins starter in our history, with over 100 starts...Plenty of sample size there.  The Twins should move him down or something else, and go to plan D, E, or F for his spot.

Edited June 7, 2017 by rghrbek

[Darius]

Nice job on the write-up.

 

I'm hoping we'll see some trade recaps from you in a month and a half. After these pitching performances over the past couple of weeks, It's become crystal clear that this team isn't going anywhere this year, which is unfortunate.

[gil4]

 

Remember when we wanted to extend Santiago?

No.

 

(Who is this "we"?)

[h2oface]

Rosario does fine fresh out of the pen. Let him sit in the dugout for a half inning, and it all goes to hell.