Scot Baker back in 2012?

[Badsmerf]

Grienke is nice, but I wouldn't give him the 100 mil he will command.

If its 100 mil the Twins will pass. I'm not sure what their/his number would be, but I would do 80-90. It is going to be a big decision for Grienke, since this will likely be his biggest contract and a significant portion of his career. I really don't see the Twins doing it, but I really wish they would.

[Riverbrian]

Grienke is nice, but I wouldn't give him the 100 mil he will command.

I agree... I would love to have Grienke...This team needs Greinke...but... He's going to make big bucks and his stats are good but not big bucks good.

 

If the Twins pay it... I'll be happy... But...he's going to require some serious money.

[jokin]

Jair Jurrjens, who will probably be non-tendered by the Braves, has been brutal this year. But he's still young and has shown glimpses throughout his career. The Twins should at least take a look, though he's advised by Scott Boras, he'd offer potential for less than a lot of those older guys mentioned above. Plus, he could slot into the "inconsistent tease" slot that Liriano has vacated.

 

I think he would also fit what the Twins will try to do in the offseason... not spend a ton, but potentially - if he returns to his 2011 form - fill a big need.

 

BTW - in 2011, he went 13-6 with a 2.96 ERA.

 

Didn't he play for Team Netherlands in one of the WBCs when Bert was the pitching coach?

 

He does make sense

 

And I hope they do not sign Pavano for anything. I actually won't be surprised if he is retired. At this point, I'd rather see them pitch BJ Hermsen/Liam Hendriks/insert-name-of-less-than-25-minor-leaguer-here than Pavano.

 

Agreed, and the 3 other minor leaguers I proposed previously. Get them up for an extended audition in the low-pressure environment of the dog days in a soon-forgotten and lost season. Don't worry for one second about creating 40-man roster space on this ship's manifest, get the ballast and bilge pumps in full gear, virtually no DFA candidate-lead weight thrown overboard will be picked up by another boat anyways. Let Duensing resume the role he does competently, Blackie to long relief and stop pretending that Pavano should return and anchor the SP staff, time to move on.

[nicksaviking]

I would never go over $10 million per year on a pitcher, and I would never go more than 3 years on a pitcher (unless he's 28 or less). So, that means 3 years and $30 million cap. I think you might be able to get Anibal Sanchez and maybe Edwin Jackson for that. I'd definitely take a flyer on Jurrjens on like a 1 year, $4 million or 2 year, $7 million deal. And, I would absolutely bring back Scott Baker. And, I would absolutely not bring back Carl Pavano.

So do you feel you don't need an ace to win a World Series, or is trying to win a World Series not worth the price of paying an ace? Doesn't matter really, Ryan feels the same way except he doesn't even give out two year deals unless the guy has already been a Twin.

 

Not that the Twins would be at the top of his list, but if Dan Haren's $15 million option isn't picked up by the Angles, and it very well may not if they have sights on re-signing Zack Greinke, he might take a one year rebound contract.

[Fire Dan Gladden]

I would never go over $10 million per year on a pitcher, and I would never go more than 3 years on a pitcher (unless he's 28 or less). So, that means 3 years and $30 million cap. I think you might be able to get Anibal Sanchez and maybe Edwin Jackson for that. I'd definitely take a flyer on Jurrjens on like a 1 year, $4 million or 2 year, $7 million deal. And, I would absolutely bring back Scott Baker. And, I would absolutely not bring back Carl Pavano.

I agree 100% with everything Seth says here. Big contracts in general rarely work out, big contracts for pitchers are even worse. Joe Mauer may not be a full time catcher anymore, but his bat is still devastating. A pitcher can't pitch and the money is absolutely sunk. I believe Grienke would be the ideal fit here, considering his makeup, but he will command more than the Twins should pay. It would be nice to have that #1 for the playoffs, but people screamed at the $6 million given to Capps (myself included) and he was passable before the injury. Imagine a Twins pitcher making $14 million and not performing well. This site would blow up. TR would never be forgiven.

[DPJ]

How in the hell does Edwin Jackson go on a 1/11 deal with the Nats to now an estimated 3/30 in a pitching market that was just as weak as last season?

[Brock Beauchamp]

How in the hell does Edwin Jackson go on a 1/11 deal with the Nats to now an estimated 3/30 in a pitching market that was just as weak as last season?

Didn't Jackson choose to go to the Nats on a one year deal after firing Boras? Or did he fire Boras after the deal?

 

edit: He fired him after the deal but it was reported that he turned down a three year deal with the Pirates (not mentioned in this article, looking for other articles to back it up).

 

http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2012/07/edwin-jackson-to-join-legacy-agency.html

 

edit 2: Yeah, he turned down multi-year deals from other clubs reported here.

 

http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/07/22/edwin-jackson-is-dropping-super-agent-scott-boras/

[Brock Beauchamp]

There is no one better than Blackburn? BJ friggin Hermsen could replicate Blackburn's "production" over the past few years. Blackburn provides nothing a Manshipian AAA/AAAA guy can't give you at this point.

 

This $5 Million is a sunk cost. If Twins want to behave like a small market team and trot him out there every 5 days to save 5% of the payroll then I'll be disappointed. I'd rather give Baker and his bloody stump of an arm a shot as well.

I'm all for dumping Blackburn. Maybe in the offseason, maybe earlier if Hendriks comes up and performs and the team decides to keep Duensing in the rotation. Maybe early next season if the team really wants to give him another shot (ugh).

 

But right now? I don't see the point. BJ Hermsen could factor into the equation next season (not high on him at all) but I don't see the reason to rush the kid to the majors just to jettison Blackburn in a lost season. He hasn't pitched a full season above A ball yet and could definitely use more seasoning. Stunting the development of a young player just because you hate a guy on the ML squad isn't a valid reason to call him up.

[Brock Beauchamp]

I would never go over $10 million per year on a pitcher, and I would never go more than 3 years on a pitcher (unless he's 28 or less). So, that means 3 years and $30 million cap. I think you might be able to get Anibal Sanchez and maybe Edwin Jackson for that. I'd definitely take a flyer on Jurrjens on like a 1 year, $4 million or 2 year, $7 million deal. And, I would absolutely bring back Scott Baker. And, I would absolutely not bring back Carl Pavano.

 

I agree 100% with everything Seth says here. Big contracts in general rarely work out, big contracts for pitchers are even worse. Joe Mauer may not be a full time catcher anymore, but his bat is still devastating. A pitcher can't pitch and the money is absolutely sunk. I believe Grienke would be the ideal fit here, considering his makeup, but he will command more than the Twins should pay. It would be nice to have that #1 for the playoffs, but people screamed at the $6 million given to Capps (myself included) and he was passable before the injury. Imagine a Twins pitcher making $14 million and not performing well. This site would blow up. TR would never be forgiven.

 

To put it bluntly, I don't see how this team is going to be competitive before 2015 without picking up a quality FA pitcher. In theory, it's great to go after short-term, relatively cheap contracts for pitchers.

 

When your rotation is this awful, that's a luxury you can't take if you want to field a competitive team. The Twins need at least two new starters. It can be argued they need as many as four. You're not going to field a competitive team by throwing $6-8m at 2-3 guys and hoping they all stick. You're going to get a lot more Jason Marquis that way than you will 2010 Carl Pavano. Which puts the Twins in the same spot they are today. A decent offense, a few star players in their prime, and a wretched rotation that keeps them out of contention.

 

The Twins don't need to go for Greinke. They don't need to go for a Hamels type player. They need guys who can pitch to the major league average (or better) while they try to develop better pitchers in the minors. It wouldn't kill this team to throw $11-13 million a year for 3-4 years at a player like Sanchez, Jackson, or another starter on the right side of 30. The Twins have a boatload of money coming off the books in the next 18 months. They can afford to buy a guy that doesn't suck. They don't need to go spend $100m on a guy like Greinke (as much as I like Zack), they just need to field guys who aren't completely freakin' awful.

[DaveW]

If I were the Twins I would try to work out a trade for Josh Johnson and try to sign him to an extension prior to the season.

[DPJ]

If I were the Twins I would try to work out a trade for Josh Johnson and try to sign him to an extension prior to the season.

K-rates down, velocity is down...NO THANKS!!!

[Thrylos]

To put it bluntly, I don't see how this team is going to be competitive before 2015 without picking up a quality FA pitcher. In theory, it's great to go after short-term, relatively cheap contracts for pitchers.

I think that they need to pick 2 starters better than Diamond to be competitive. Doesn't have to be through Free Agency. They can pick them in a trade.

 

Speaking about a certain potential free agent starting pitcher, do you remember our discussion about how Hannibal ante portas Sanchez was going to do in the AL? He is doing even worse that I thought... He is pitching tonight against the Twins btw, so we will see if that K/9 moves to De Vries territory

[Buck Nasty]

I don't see signing Baker as anything that will help this club - at least next year. I mean...I've read a lot of people on here questioning how much Kyle Gibson can be counted on to contribute next year and he's 9 months ahead of Baker in recovery time. Furthermore, I'll bet if we looked back on message boards from when Baker was pitching, there were plenty of people who thought he wasn't anything special anyhow (although I always like the guy). I just don't see why it would make sense to risk money towards Baker. And let's forget about Baker taking the "home town discount" because he loves it here. He's going to go where he gets the best deal. To me, knowing this team needs a proven innings eater, it would make sense to bank any money that would be spent to retain Baker and go after a healthy arm that can be counted on for a full year of work.

[Brock Beauchamp]

To put it bluntly, I don't see how this team is going to be competitive before 2015 without picking up a quality FA pitcher. In theory, it's great to go after short-term, relatively cheap contracts for pitchers.

 

I think that they need to pick 2 starters better than Diamond to be competitive. Doesn't have to be through Free Agency. They can pick them in a trade.

 

Speaking about a certain potential free agent starting pitcher, do you remember our discussion about how Hannibal ante portas Sanchez was going to do in the AL? He is doing even worse that I thought... He is pitching tonight against the Twins btw, so we will see if that K/9 moves to De Vries territory

 

Way too SSS to matter at this point. What has he made, three starts?

 

The Twins probably aren't going to pick up two starters via trade... Not ones that help in 2013, anyway. If they spring for a Jackson-type in the offseason, trade Span for a pitcher, and hope Hendriks/Gibson are ready sooner rather than later, they have a shot at competing in 2013. Throw junk money at another question mark and the Twins are probably looking at another 2012 again.

 

Talking about Sanchez... Wow, he's been a pretty lousy pitcher for awhile now. His June was brutal, his July pretty bad, and his starts with Detroit in August have been equally brutal. I wonder if there's something wrong with him.

[kab21]

How in the hell does Edwin Jackson go on a 1/11 deal with the Nats to now an estimated 3/30 in a pitching market that was just as weak as last season?

He took a one year contract on a favorable team so he could go after his multi year contract.

[kab21]

Jurrjens arm is completely trashed. Pick him up as a Jared Burton/Joel Zumaya type flier but you can't count on him for anything.

[Thrylos]

Jurrjens arm is completely trashed. Pick him up as a Jared Burton/Joel Zumaya type flier but you can't count on him for anything.

 

Just checked fangraphs... He is down 4 mph off his peak velocity for FB (sits at 88ish) and Change and 3 mph off on the slider. Yeah, you might have something here...

 

On the other hand, 88 mph fastball and 3.6 K/9 is exactly what the Twins have been looking in free agent pitchers recently

[DaveW]

If I were the Twins I would try to work out a trade for Josh Johnson and try to sign him to an extension prior to the season.

 

K-rates down, velocity is down...NO THANKS!!!

http://cdn.brooksbaseball.net/player_cards/card_imgs/435178.mph.L.png

 

He was coming off a pretty major injury.

 

He has been a bit up and down this year, but after a pretty brutal start he has put together a nice last 15 starts or so, with his k/9 approaching 9 again.

I think he would be the perfect guy to grab and extend. He may not be an "ace" but he has a good shot to be a very solid #2.

[Blackjack]

Even if they resign Baker, I don't know that you can count on either him or Gibson to be able to contribute during the whole season.

 

I agree, with both coming off injuries, they'll be very cautious with both. And when was the last time Baker pitched a full season without going on the DL?

 

I'm going to bet that they resign Pavano. Twins like 'innings eaters', before he got hurt this year, thats what he was. If he comes back in Sept., has 3-4 good six inning starts, they can sign him to a low base salary with incentives for innings pitched. He can pitch early on while Baker and Gibson get up to speed, if he sucks, release him or trade him. If he’s good, it’s a good gamble.

[DaveW]

Even if they resign Baker, I don't know that you can count on either him or Gibson to be able to contribute during the whole season.

 

I agree, with both coming off injuries, they'll be very cautious with both. And when was the last time Baker pitched a full season without going on the DL?

 

I'm going to bet that they resign Pavano. Twins like 'innings eaters', before he got hurt this year, thats what he was. If he comes back in Sept., has 3-4 good six inning starts, they can sign him to a low base salary with incentives for innings pitched. He can pitch early on while Baker and Gibson get up to speed, if he sucks, release him or trade him. If he’s good, it’s a good gamble.

I doubt Pavano will be back, he would have to come back and have some nice starts for any team to give him a major league contract heading into next year.

 

However, I would rather the Twins sign a guy like Pavano to be their #5 veteran presence guy instead of Marquis/Hernandez/(insert other ****ty NL pitcher here)

Ideally they don't need to do that though.

[DPJ]

However, I would rather the Twins sign a guy like Pavano to be their #5 veteran presence guy instead of Marquis/Hernandez/(insert other ****ty NL pitcher here)

Ideally they don't need to do that though.

 

 

Pavano might not be any better then either of those guys at this point.

[DaveW]

However, I would rather the Twins sign a guy like Pavano to be their #5 veteran presence guy instead of Marquis/Hernandez/(insert other ****ty NL pitcher here)

Ideally they don't need to do that though.

 

 

Pavano might not be any better then either of those guys at this point.

Of course, that is why I'd prefer a minor league contract.