Game Thread: Twins vs Royals@Target Field - 4/6, 10:10am PT (Noon:10 CT)

[drjim]

 

Santana seems to get "punto hate" on Twins Daily and I'm feeling a bit sad for him.....hope he and Molitors'  lineup ROCKS another WIN!!!!!

 

Santana's no Punto though.

[Mike Sixel]

 

Santana's no Punto though.

 

Agreed on that. Punto was much better defensively. I can't recall the hitting one way or the other.

[Jerr]

 

Santana's no Punto though.

I agree, but I remember how Punto became the target.......

[drjim]

The other thing I'll say about Santana, is the dude has flashed tools and is still only 26. He could have probably used more development time over the last 3 years, but he had too good of a year at 23 (albeit with a fluky babip) to fully commit to that development. He is proof of the problem faced by international signees and the need to roster them at a younger age.

 

He's not going to be a great player, likely not even an everyday guy, but I still watch him and think there is something there. I would have preferred he was the 13th guy and there was a DH on the roster, but he doesn't put together the roster.

[Blake]

 

Agreed on that. Punto was much better defensively. I can't recall the hitting one way or the other.

The odd thing about Punto is that he really lit things up when he finally made it to the post-season. Bat was always marginal during the regular season but in the post-season? 

 

But, hey, it's baseball.

[jud6312]

 

Well, when you put that many qualifiers on it. This kind of analysis really shows the limits of just posting WAR and having that be the only conclusion.

 

The fact that he got over 500 PAs shows he far from the top 5 worst. He was certainly overexposed, but if he was hidden a little more and played to his strengths, his WAR counting stats would have been less negative. If he only had 300 PAs, that would not have made him "better" but by this standard he would have been significantly better.

 

I am interested to see him in a limited role and see what he can produce, now that he has no other options.

There's ONE qualifier on it ... 500 PAs.

 

His only strength is his speed, which doesn't translate to good baserunning. So, I guess if there were a footrace to break an extra innings tie after both teams exhausted their entire benches, he'd be a good guy to have around.

[Mike Sixel]

I think this is my favourite section, btw:

 

GM: (sarcastically) Would you prefer 14 pitchers? (immediately regrets opening mouth)

Manager: Awesome! We really are on the same page!! I always knew I liked you!

[drjim]

 

Agreed on that. Punto was much better defensively. I can't recall the hitting one way or the other.

 

Punto was a very valuable MLBer. He was also overexposed because there was a shortage of talent around him in the infield.

[drjim]

 

There's ONE qualifier on it ... 500 PAs.

 

His only strength is his speed, which doesn't translate to good baserunning. So, I guess if there were a footrace to break an extra innings tie after both teams exhausted their entire benches, he'd be a good guy to have around.

 

He also has a cannon arm and some sneaky pop. He has tools.

 

500 PAs over two years is a lot. It weeds out all the really bad players.

[jud6312]

 

He also has a cannon arm and some sneaky pop. He has tools.

 

500 PAs over two years is a lot. It weeds out all the really bad players.

You're either Grandpa DanSan or you're trolling everyone really, really hard.

 

Either way, congrats. 

[TonyInOmaha]

 

The other thing I'll say about Santana, is the dude has flashed tools and is still only 26. He could have probably used more development time over the last 3 years, but he had too good of a year at 23 (albeit with a fluky babip) to fully commit to that development. He is proof of the problem faced by international signees and the need to roster them at a younger age.

 

He's not going to be a great player, likely not even an everyday guy, but I still watch him and think there is something there. I would have preferred he was the 13th guy and there was a DH on the roster, but he doesn't put together the roster.

 

Agreed.

 

Santana definitely needs to show something of value this year, but remember he's had to deal with his mother's health issues the past 2 seasons.   You can't completely ignore the role that may have played (and could continue to play) with his performance on the field.   Santana shows flashes of what excited everyone in 2014 and can play 6 positions.   He's absolutely has enough upside to warrant some early season PT and not running the risk another team will claim him off waivers.

[drjim]

 

You're either Grandpa DanSan or you're trolling everyone really, really hard.

 

Either way, congrats. 

 

I'm not trolling, I think the DanSan hate narrative has basically gone off the rails and I like to push back against it. I have always thought he should get another shot this season, though I would have preferred as the 13th guy, not the 12th. I realize it is a minority opinion on this board.

 

He does some things, has a few tools, has some upside, and has flashed in the bigs before, even if partially flukey babip fused. Probably likely that he is bad again this year, but I think he is worth another shot while he still is cheap.

[John Kelsey]

 

Agreed.

 

Santana definitely needs to show something of value this year, but remember he's had to deal with his mother's health issues the past 2 seasons.   You can't completely ignore the role that may have played (and could continue to play) with his performance on the field.   Santana shows flashes of what excited everyone in 2014 and can play 6 positions.   He's absolutely has enough upside to warrant some early season PT and not running the risk another team will claim him off waivers.

 

I'm filing that one under "risks I'm willing to take". 

[twinsfanstreif]

Santana's no Punto though.

Not enough "grit"

[ThejacKmp]

 

How many chances does a 25th man get?? Every organization has guys making the minimum that could easily be swapped with DSan. Spread the chances around. I want to see Granite soon.

I want Granite to play every day.

[John Kelsey]

 

I'm not trolling, I think the DanSan hate narrative has basically gone off the rails and I like to push back against it. I have always thought he should get another shot this season, though I would have preferred as the 13th guy, not the 12th. I realize it is a minority opinion on this board.

 

He does some things, has a few tools, has some upside, and has flashed in the bigs before, even if partially flukey babip fused. Probably likely that he is bad again this year, but I think he is worth another shot while he still is cheap.

 

This, I won't argue with. 

[Jerr]

Here's hoping that Gibson looks awesome today!!!!!!

[jud6312]

 

not running the risk another team will claim him off waivers.

 

I'll take "Things that have a 1% chance of happening," for $500 please, Alex.

[diehardtwinsfan]

Personally, I think we tend to minimize the patience aspect of player development. Football is much worse, but I see it here too. If a guy doesn't develop within a year at best, people are ready to see him cut. It's a horrible way to run a franchise, which is why guys like DanSan and Tonkin keep getting chances.  It may not pay off for either, but you have to give them the shot.

[ashbury]

4. On a weirdness scale of 1 to 10: 1 or 10?

Giraffe.

[TonyInOmaha]

 

I'll take "Things that have a 1% chance of happening," for $500 please, Alex.

 

I'm sure no other team especially in the NL would be interested in taking a chance on a switch hitter with good speed that can play 6 positions.  Right?

[Mike Sixel]

 

Personally, I think we tend to minimize the patience aspect of player development. Football is much worse, but I see it here too. If a guy doesn't develop within a year at best, people are ready to see him cut. It's a horrible way to run a franchise, which is why guys like DanSan and Tonkin keep getting chances.  It may not pay off for either, but you have to give them the shot.

 

Fair. How many shots should DanSan get? This is year 4. Genuinely curious, not a rip, just a question.

[drjim]

 

Fair. How many shots should DanSan get? This is year 4. Genuinely curious, not a rip, just a question.

 

This will be it.

[jud6312]

 

I'm sure no other team especially in the NL would be interested in taking a chance on a switch hitter with good speed that can play 6 positions.  Right?

 

I can stand in my yard and flap my arms all day, but it doesn't make me a bird. 

 

Likewise, DanSan's ability to flail his limbs wildly at batted balls in a variety of positions around the field make him a valuable defensive asset.

 

 

[Jerr]

 

Giraffe.

I would put an ostrich or a platypus ahead of the giraffe, so 3 with 1 being the top.

Spanish, then math now mammals????

Gonna be a great season for some education lol lol

[Blake]

 

Fair. How many shots should DanSan get? This is year 4. Genuinely curious, not a rip, just a question.

I think this is make or break year for Mr. Santana. Honestly, with the way Santana has been jerked around from a position standpoint, I'm surprised he's as good as he is.

[Mike Sixel]

I predict a sweep, and a Twins' win. Gibson will get the best fWAR for a Twins' pitcher so far this year. Buxton gets at least 1 hit and a SB.

[John Kelsey]

 

I think this is make or break year for Mr. Santana. Honestly, with the way Santana has been jerked around from a position standpoint, I'm surprised he's as good as he is.

 

Filing this one under "thoughts I've never had". 

[Blake]

 

Giraffe.

I put up Wink Wilkinson and the best you can do is giraffe? Maybe next time go with Ungulate!

[jud6312]

 

Filing this one under "thoughts I've never had". 

How low is the bar?