Article: J2: Come Here, International Free Agents

[drivlikejehu]

 

But, you have declared that absolutely no law professor of ethics would say that breaching a contract is per se wrong. Don't know how to help you with that perspective, and I have real people with backgrounds in ethics work that disagree with this statement. 

 

I'd love to hear a justification for that position. I've never heard that before and can't imagine how it could be supported. When a party stands to lose more from following the contract than the amount of damages owed following a breach, you are saying the party is obligated to suffer more losses than is legally required? 

 

The CBA is obviously a contract, but the owners decided how to approach international signings internally before putting it in front of the players. The teams knew what they were doing. They never believed the caps were some kind of hard line, which is particularly evident from the structure of escalating 'penalties.' 

 

I don't know what you have read and what you haven't, but unless you've specifically delved into professional sports labor relations and anti-trust law, you probably do not have the perspective you need. You are confusing the relationship between the clubs with the relationship between the clubs and players. The clubs are not independent entities. The Red Sox can't really "breach" the CBA with respect to the Twins, because for the purposes of the CBA they are the same entity (MLB). They can only breach it against the players.

 

The players don't even support caps as a general matter, since it is a slight nod in the direction of the salary cap notion that they abhor. They agree to them in the amateur realm as a relatively painless concession to gain ground in other areas. Arguing an unethical act here is like saying it is unethical to intentionally pay someone more than her contract provides for. I guess it's arguable to some extent, but realistically your point falls apart once understood in the proper context.

 

 

 

 

Edited July 5, 2016 by drivlikejehu

[operation mindcrime]

Let's hope there's some awesome prospects next July since we'll have a huge bonus pool to spend! Maybe that will be the year we go all in!

[bird]

 

Vargas is from Puerto Rico and so is not an international free agent.  The Twins international signing and development is suboptimal IMO

 

 

Oswaldo Arcia, Wilson Ramos, Yangervis Solarte, Deolis Guerra, Liam Hendriks.

 

More reasons to question an opinion that the Twins are slouches when it comes to international signing and development of foreign-born talent to the big leagues (Liriano, Morneau, even David Ortiz).

[Mike Sixel]

Not much excitement here, clearly......since we aren't getting updates on names and contracts.

[gunnarthor]

Well, BA's tracker has the Twins with five guys - 

Wander Valdez, 3b, Dominican Republic, $495,000.
Jesus Feliz, ss, Dominican Republic. $260,000.
Stamy Gabriel Urena, ss, Dominican Republic. $130,000.
Francisco Martinez, of, Dominican Republic
Prelander Berroa, rhp, Dominican Republic
Read more at http://www.baseballamerica.com/international/team-team-international-signing-tracker/#5jBQbeSk53HZuKcd.99

 

If the last two got around the same amount as Urena, they've probably already spent about a 1.15m.  Looks like it might be a quantity year.  Grab a bunch of guys and hope some develop type thing.  I know so little about the group that I'll be happy so long as they spend all their money.

[Mike Sixel]

Not one in the top 50? That is very unTwins like. I think there a handful of the BA top 50 not signed right now......so that can change.

[Lonestar]

 

Oswaldo Arcia, Wilson Ramos, Yangervis Solarte, Deolis Guerra, Liam Hendriks.

 

More reasons to question an opinion that the Twins are slouches when it comes to international signing and development of foreign-born talent to the big leagues (Liriano, Morneau, even David Ortiz).

I said the Twins international signing and development is suboptimal and this is your defense.

 

Did the Twins successfully develop Arcia, Solarte, Guerra, Hendriks, or even Ortiz?

They didn't even sign Guerra, Liriano, or Ortiz.  Or Morneau (as in international free agent).

 

Between Liriano coming up and Arcia, the Twins turned

out Ramos, Mijares and Hendriks?

 

Look at the international free agents on the Twins teams that lost 90 games 2011-2014.

2011  Nishi (not a J2 signing), Mijares, and Hendriks

2012  Hendriks

2013  Pinto, Arcia, Hendriks

2014  Pino, Polanco, Arcia, Pinto

 

The Twins failure to sign and develop international free agents rates up their with failure to draft and develop front line pitching or above average position players

[bird]

Okay, I can accept that perhaps their rate of success at signing and developing (and yes, they get some credit for successfully developing Liriano, Ramos, Guerra, Hendriks, Solarte, Pinto,, and even Ortiz) international prospects is in line with their success at drafting and developing above-average position players. If that's also suboptimal by your definition, fine.

 

Are you limiting your observations to 2014? Sano and Kepler and Rosario, and it's still suboptimal? Compared to...?

 

I've never been one to tout their expertise as superior to most other teams with either domestic or foreign prospects. But I strongly believe that the constantly stated opinion that they are somehow inferior, worse than average at it, is false, and unsupported by the evidence. This holds true in particular when one examines more recent history, say, the past decade, and when one rightfully factors in the main mitigating circumstances, such as draft position. What happened 14 years ago, when Jose Mijares was signed, hardly tells us a thing.

[The Wise One]

IFA signed and developed and still playing for the same team. Soler, Contereras and Conception are the only three IFAs signed and developed by the Cubs. Diaz and Oh for the Cardinals. None for the Moneyball A's,   Romero and  Colombe for the Rays. The league may be 24% foreign born players but that doesn't mean many stay with the same team. To say the Twins are bad at developing IFA is simply not founded.