Nice article on Buxton

[gunnarthor]

http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/mlb-big-league-stew/twins-rookie-byron-buxton-finally-starting-to-live-up-to-the-hype-074300502.html

 

Nice article on yahoo today.  I found this interesting:

 

"There was one person in particular who helped him while he was back in the minors. That was ex-Twins All-Star Torii Hunter. They met last season, as Hunter finished his career in Minnesota. When Buxton was in Triple-A, he talked to Hunter regularly. Hunter would watch Buxton’s games, tell him what he was doing wrong and what he should be doing instead. If those adjustments didn’t work, the two of them would get back on the phone and hash out new ideas."

 

I'm firmly in the corner that last years success had a lot more to do with Hunter than Molitor.  

[ShouldaCouldaWoulda]

I am happy with how things have gone for him so far, but also extremely skeptical too. He is obviously more comfortable and confident, but there are certainly red flags. His triple slash line is sexy, but he also has a .556 BABIP, 25% k-rate, and ZERO WALKS. 

 

He's flashed his elite tools/athleticism, but is also kind of simply relying on it, which isn't sustainable. The success he is showing right now is the Danny Santana '14 and Eddie Rosario '15 kind of success, which hopefully most have figured are awesome, but likely to fade, if DRASTIC changes in approach aren't made. 

 

I do feel that Buxton will actually adjust and begin to take more walks and strike out a little less often, but that might take a while. Until then, we might be riding the 'luck' BABIP wave and contact wave with him. He is much better already than his last stint, but I would not get too excited about HOW he's succeeding right now. 

 

I own him in a dynasty league, so I really want him to pan out and obviously am sold on his tools, but I am also a realist and am not buying how he is succeeding at the moment. His mechanics also seem very off to me from at bat to at bat and pitch to pitch, but the confidence and calmness is definitely noticeable.

[HitInAPinch]

Well, I guess it depends on who's version you read.  But I do believe Hunter has been helpful.  I seem to remember reading about this last year.  

 

In this article, Hunter's name doesn't come up.

 

http://www.1500espn.com/twins-2/2016/06/new-approach-why-byron-buxton-is-visualizing-hits-to-the-second-baseman/

 

I'm not going to get picky on stats right now.  Just let him hit. 

[Otto von Ballpark]

I'm in the corner that this mentorship stuff is probably exagerrated. Moreover, how do we know it had a positive effect? Seems like the kind of game to game long distance tinkering described in this excerpt could have contributed to Buxton not being comfortable or confident in his approach in MLB.

[by jiminy]

If Torii is some kind of Buck whisperer, why was Buxton so terrible last year when Torii was his actual, freaking teammate?

 

If you're going to claim that contact with Torii Hunter is the key to success, you can't pick and choose. The facts are, he hit well in AAA last year and this year, when he was mostly away from Torii, and he hit terribly in the majors last year and in spring training this year when Hunter was around.

 

He also did terribly in the majors this year when Hunter wasn't around...but great in AAA this year when Hunter still wasn't around...hmm, could there maybe be some other variables involved in major league success than exposure to Torii Hunter? The possibility at the very least cannot be ignored. But if Torii Hunter has any effect on Buxton at all, the preponderance of the evidence would suggest it is negative, not positive.

 

Look, I'm not suggesting Torii screwed up Buxton, that would be silly. Just no more silly than saying Torii is what makes him good.

 

In any case, correlation does not show causation. (But at least it's potentially supporting evidence, which is more than you can say for anticorrelation.)

 

But to get less abstract, have you ever heard the kind of advice Torii used to give young players? What I remember is him telling people like Arcia and Vargas to just keep being aggressive, be themselves, and not let people steer them away from their strengths. Arcia didn't start working on plate discipline till they got him the hell away from Hunter! Not that I kept tabs on their phone calls in the minors; but he sure did him no favors last year.

 

And as a player, he was always a hacker who spurned plate discipline and enjoyed being aggressive. I'm not saying that is even always bad advice. In some cases, it works. You can be too passive. It's just not some kind of wise old sage wisdom.

 

If anyone sees  reporting on something Torii ever said that was not totally obvious or actually counterproductive, I'd like to see it. I don't remember anybody. I mostly just remember him doing things like punching M&M boys for not being loudmouths like he was, and constantly getting hurt and bragging about it. He missed about as many games as Mauer, but in his case it showed manly toughness and commitment when he injured himsel, but in others it showed wimpiness and lack of commitment.

 

I think it's probably true that he kept the clubhouse loose with his dance parties--though even that, how do we really know? How would you like it if someone put on loud music at your workplace and made you dance, and no matter how arrogant or obnoxious he was, you had to go along with it because you knew he had the boss's ear? That would not be my idea of a productivity enhancer, personally. I'm gonna say it  more likely had a positive effect than a negative effect, because they won more games last year than they should have, statistically. But that doesn't mean it didn't drive a lot of people crazy, who just had to keep their mouths shut. Or that there weren't a lot better explanation for them outperforming their offensive numbers, like an unsustainable bunching of hits when men were on base.

 

To me the fact that it was unsustainable is illustrated by the huge drop this year; to others that's simply more evidence of Torii's magical manipulation of reality. We'll just have to disagree about that. It's possible clutch hitting correlates with dance parties. But it's also possible it correlates with the price of tea.

 

And I have yet to hear anyone explain why, if Torii Hunter was such a magician, his magic only worked in May, and they had a losing record the rest of 2015. What's the mysterious link to May, when they were 13 games above .500? Why did the Hunter effect not last into June? And why was Dozier an all-star in the first half of the season, and a disaster in the second? And what about Plouffe? Shouldn't they have have gotten better and better, not worse and worse, under Hunter's mentorship? Dozier was Hunter's hand-picked successor as inspirational leader, for Pete's sake! What happened??? It's just so confusing. Sometimes I almost wonder if Torii is even magic at all.

[Dantes929]

 

http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/mlb-big-league-stew/twins-rookie-byron-buxton-finally-starting-to-live-up-to-the-hype-074300502.html

 

 

I'm firmly in the corner that last years success had a lot more to do with Hunter than Molitor.  

I value leadership but if you followed last year closely Hunter's leadership was lauded when he was hitting three run homers and wasn't mentioned much when he was slumping.    If Hunter gave Buxton some focus and perspective it would probably fall under mentorship.    Certainly leadershiop is closely related.  

[ShouldaCouldaWoulda]

Maybe Hunter is able to control BABIP, as that is pretty much the only variable that is behind the good week. Everything else has pointed to trainwreck still...just less so. At least that buys him time to feel good and figure it out though. Having 50% of your balls fall in for hits just isn't really a skill or sustainable.

[Jham]

If Torii is some kind of Buck whisperer, why was Buxton so terrible last year when Torii was his actual, freaking teammate?

 

If you're going to claim that contact with Torii Hunter is the key to success, you can't pick and choose. The facts are, he hit well in AAA last year and this year, when he was mostly away from Torii, and he hit terribly in the majors last year and in spring training this year when Hunter was around.

 

He also did terribly in the majors this year when Hunter wasn't around...but great in AAA this year when Hunter still wasn't around...hmm, could there maybe be some other variables involved in major league success than exposure to Torii Hunter? The possibility at the very least cannot be ignored. But if Torii Hunter has any effect on Buxton at all, the preponderance of the evidence would suggest it is negative, not positive.

 

Look, I'm not suggesting Torii screwed up Buxton, that would be silly. Just no more silly than saying Torii is what makes him good.

 

In any case, correlation does not show causation. (But at least it's potentially supporting evidence, which is more than you can say for anticorrelation.)

 

But to get less abstract, have you ever heard the kind of advice Torii used to give young players? What I remember is him telling people like Arcia and Vargas to just keep being aggressive, be themselves, and not let people steer them away from their strengths. Arcia didn't start working on plate discipline till they got him the hell away from Hunter! Not that I kept tabs on their phone calls in the minors; but he sure did him no favors last year.

 

And as a player, he was always a hacker who spurned plate discipline and enjoyed being aggressive. I'm not saying that is even always bad advice. In some cases, it works. You can be too passive. It's just not some kind of wise old sage wisdom.

 

If anyone sees reporting on something Torii ever said that was not totally obvious or actually counterproductive, I'd like to see it. I don't remember anybody. I mostly just remember him doing things like punching M&M boys for not being loudmouths like he was, and constantly getting hurt and bragging about it. He missed about as many games as Mauer, but in his case it showed manly toughness and commitment when he injured himsel, but in others it showed wimpiness and lack of commitment.

 

I think it's probably true that he kept the clubhouse loose with his dance parties--though even that, how do we really know? How would you like it if someone put on loud music at your workplace and made you dance, and no matter how arrogant or obnoxious he was, you had to go along with it because you knew he had the boss's ear? That would not be my idea of a productivity enhancer, personally. I'm gonna say it more likely had a positive effect than a negative effect, because they won more games last year than they should have, statistically. But that doesn't mean it didn't drive a lot of people crazy, who just had to keep their mouths shut. Or that there weren't a lot better explanation for them outperforming their offensive numbers, like an unsustainable bunching of hits when men were on base.

 

To me the fact that it was unsustainable is illustrated by the huge drop this year; to others that's simply more evidence of Torii's magical manipulation of reality. We'll just have to disagree about that. It's possible clutch hitting correlates with dance parties. But it's also possible it correlates with the price of tea.

 

And I have yet to hear anyone explain why, if Torii Hunter was such a magician, his magic only worked in May, and they had a losing record the rest of 2015. What's the mysterious link to May, when they were 13 games above .500? Why did the Hunter effect not last into June? And why was Dozier an all-star in the first half of the season, and a disaster in the second? And what about Plouffe? Shouldn't they have have gotten better and better, not worse and worse, under Hunter's mentorship? Dozier was Hunter's hand-picked successor as inspirational leader, for Pete's sake! What happened??? It's just so confusing. Sometimes I almost wonder if Torii is even magic at all.

 

Hey i appreciate the counter points, but you're the only one arguing causation. Everyone else is considering Hunter's influence. Metrics are a useful tool for evaluating performance, particularly if you can't see the games or are otherwise clouded by congestive bias. Regarding Buxton, he credited Hunter in the article which provides anecdotal evidence in support of a positive influence. Many other players have offered similar praise and sought his advice. Will his advice and leadership style help everyone? Obviously not. Is it helping Buxton? He says so.

 

Please remember the following: the fact that we don't have a way of measuring something doesn't mean it doesn't exist.

 

Even our best metrics don't eliminate close to enough variables to allow them to mean much on their own. As such you should never use stats as a substitute for impiracal data from controlled environments, or for common sense. The numbers guys who say pressure doesn't influence performance or that mentorship doesn't matter ignore their own experiences and the experiences of virtually every other human being out there. If you don't have a way of measuring it, that's your problem, but don't go off and belittle anyone who still might try to understand that mysterious human element that honestly is just as important as, and to many folks, more interesting than, the latest fad stat in understanding player performance.

[Pardon My Dinger]

 

His triple slash line is sexy, but he also has a .556 BABIP

That might be a little high, but Buxton can outrun the Flash. And Superman. If the ball hits the ground he's got at least a 50% chance of getting on first.