GOT season six (spoilers galore)

[Mike Sixel]

 

No, because those are the only two flags I recognize.

 

I assume there was no flayed man either.....

[TheLeviathan]

 

If we stopped reading the books because of non-sensical plot lines, well, not sure how far we would have made it......I seem to remember liking the Dorne parts, mostly.

 

Really, there are like 3-5 book series in this series.....but they are all mashed into one.

 

Sure, I just think the book Dorne would've made for terrible TV plotting.

[Mike Sixel]

 

Of all places, ArsTechnica wrote up a piece that mirrors pretty much everything Levi, Mike, and I have been saying about the series:

 

http://arstechnica.com/the-multiverse/2016/06/game-of-thrones-sixth-season-provided-what-the-show-sorely-needed-motion/

 

Ya, that was well written....

[gunnarthor]

 

Tremendous finale.  Really.  

 

I think Gendry will emerge as a factor, now that Cersei is on the thrown; which brings to the question, on what authority or right does Cersei have the Iron Throne? Is she a usurper?  Are all the Baratheon's dead; shouldn't one of Robert's blood relatives technically be next in line? Or is there some precedence (within the books) for a Queen-mother to rule after her King-child has died?  

 

...

I don't think Cercei has any legal claim to the throne - certainly nothing in the books which repeatedly say that a woman can not rule.  But she has the King's guard, the Lannister forces and no one to (openly) oppose her.  That's an usurper.  

[TheLeviathan]

I totally missed this.

 

Very interesting.....

[Willihammer]

We know Jon is a Targ now, but where does that go?

Now that we know Jon is half Targaryen, he has to be the lucky guy to marry Dany, right? Conquer the south with dragons, take the north through marriage. I wonder if Bran will have to counsel Jon and/or Dany first.

[Mike Sixel]

 

Now that we know Jon is half Targaryen, he has to be the lucky guy to marry Dany, right? Conquer the south with dragons, take the north through marriage. I wonder if Bran will have to counsel Jon and/or Dany first.

 

See, I don't know if Jon will marry a blood relative, not how he was raised.

 

Plus, the damn whispering part....are we SURE he's a Targ? Is it possible he is actually Robert's son? Or, someone else's? All we KNOW is he came out of a Stark woman....we don't KNOW the father.

 

BTW, we never saw the Blackfish's body......who reported him dead, a Lannister, or a Tulley?

[Willihammer]

I don't think Jon would even need to be made aware. The only one who knows is Bran. And even if he found out, there could develop a reason for marriage that outweighs any misgivings. Like maybe, unifying the realms against King Koopa.

[Willihammer]

Another guess, Sansa's gonna give it to Littlefinger one way or another. Her experience with Ramsay was crystalizing. And now that she seems to be a player she'll leverage Baelish's crush on her for (further) Stark gain, then betray him as revenge for being sold to Ramsay.

[TheLeviathan]

The Targs often inter-bred, but I don't think that's the future for Jon and Dany.   In fact, if I had to predict things, I'm guessing one of them is dead in the end.

 

And I mean dead for realsies.

[jimmer]

 

See, I don't know if Jon will marry a blood relative, not how he was raised.

 

Plus, the damn whispering part....are we SURE he's a Targ? Is it possible he is actually Robert's son? Or, someone else's? All we KNOW is he came out of a Stark woman....we don't KNOW the father.

 

BTW, we never saw the Blackfish's body......who reported him dead, a Lannister, or a Tulley?

If he was Robert's son she wouldn't have said to Ned 'If Robert finds out he'll kill him, you know he will. You have to protect him.  Promise Ned, Promise me.'

[Mike Sixel]

If he was Robert's son she wouldn't have said to Ned 'If Robert finds out he'll kill him, you know he will. You have to protect him. Promise Ned, Promise me.'

Doh....right. I am sure he is a Targ, just spit balling random thoughts

[jimmer]

Excerpt from 'A Storm of Swords':

 

'A Song of Ice and Fire is told through the eyes of characters who are sometimes hundreds or even thousands of miles apart from one another. Some chapters cover a day, some only an hour, others might span a fortnight, a month, a half year.   With such a structure, the narrative cannot be strictly sequential, sometimes important things are happening simultaneously, a thousand leagues apart'

[Mike Sixel]

 

Excerpt from 'A Storm of Swords':

 

'A Song of Ice and Fire is told through the eyes of characters who are sometimes hundreds or even thousands of miles apart from one another. Some chapters cover a day, some only an hour, others might span a fortnight, a month, a half year.   With such a structure, the narrative cannot be strictly sequential, sometimes important things are happening simultaneously, a thousand leagues apart'

 

Hey, I get that.....

 

But, I am not the only person who wonders how all those ships sailed around a Continent that fast....or how Varys got there and back again (couldn't help myself, there).....

 

I have decided it bothers me much more that the Maesters, who seem to know everything, had no idea what was going on at Castle Black....

[jimmer]

 

Hey, I get that.....

 

But, I am not the only person who wonders how all those ships sailed around a Continent that fast....or how Varys got there and back again (couldn't help myself, there).....

 

I have decided it bothers me much more that the Maesters, who seem to know everything, had no idea what was going on at Castle Black....

just providing info, not trying to change anyone's thoughts of plot holes or time travel machines :-)

[Brock Beauchamp]

 

I have decided it bothers me much more that the Maesters, who seem to know everything, had no idea what was going on at Castle Black....

That makes sense, though. Once Maester Aemon died, all hell broke loose at the Wall and while the Maesters might know bits and pieces, it makes sense they don't know most of the story.

 

My assumption all along was that communication channels with the North were entirely broken with the chaos at Winterfell. It's not as if Ramsay had a vested interest in making sure the Maesters were up to speed on things... If anything, his interests were in keeping them in the dark.

[Brock Beauchamp]

As for the time-traveling and teleportation, I just chalk it up to "the last episode spanned weeks or even months". There are many "issues" that lend weight to the idea:

 

- Varys was all over the damned place

- Olenna knew about the King's Landing explosion

- Jamie traveled 1/3rd the length of Westeros on horse to see Cersei crowned

- Arya travelled all the way from Braavos to the Twins, probably on foot (the Twins are inland)

- Jon held a meeting with all the houses of the North and the North is nearly half of Westeros

 

Chalk it up to Tolkien-style storytelling; tell one story that takes weeks, move backwards in time to the next story, repeat as necessary.

[TheLeviathan]

 

Hey, I get that.....

 

But, I am not the only person who wonders how all those ships sailed around a Continent that fast....or how Varys got there and back again (couldn't help myself, there).....

 

I have decided it bothers me much more that the Maesters, who seem to know everything, had no idea what was going on at Castle Black....

 

They know what they know based on information and communication, the Wall was in total disarray so they had no communication.  They rely on other Maesters for knowledge after al.

[TheLeviathan]

 

As for the time-traveling and teleportation, I just chalk it up to "the last episode spanned weeks or even months". There are many "issues" that lend weight to the idea:

 

- Varys was all over the damned place

- Olenna knew about the King's Landing explosion

- Jamie traveled 1/3rd the length of Westeros on horse to see Cersei crowned

- Arya travelled all the way from Braavos to the Twins, probably on foot (the Twins are inland)

- Jon held a meeting with all the houses of the North and the North is nearly half of Westeros

 

Chalk it up to Tolkien-style storytelling; tell one story that takes weeks, move backwards in time to the next story, repeat as necessary.

 

Yup, I'd suggest that after the scene with Melisandre you consider weeks or months passed for exactly the reason that Brock laid out.  The only thing that might negate that is the scene Jamie sees when he returns, but I imagine something like Wyldfire has a long burn rate and it's not like anyone is going in there to put it out.  

 

So if you imagine a break there, the rest of it makes sense.  

[Brock Beauchamp]

 

The only thing that might negate that is the scene Jamie sees when he returns, but I imagine something like Wyldfire has a long burn rate and it's not like anyone is going in there to put it out. 

My recollection is hazy but I believe reference is made to the Battle of Blackwater Bay smoldering for weeks... And that took place mostly in water.

 

I'd be surprised if Wyldfire didn't burn for weeks given that it seems to be a slightly magical form of Greek Fire.

[Mike Sixel]

 

That makes sense, though. Once Maester Aemon died, all hell broke loose at the Wall and while the Maesters might know bits and pieces, it makes sense they don't know most of the story.

 

My assumption all along was that communication channels with the North were entirely broken with the chaos at Winterfell. It's not as if Ramsay had a vested interest in making sure the Maesters were up to speed on things... If anything, his interests were in keeping them in the dark.

 

Hmmmm.....so we think it isn't time travel, that months or YEARS have passed......and no one knows what is happening on the Wall? I find that hard to believe. Not impossible, but hard.

 

How many years from Jon taking over until now have passed? 3 at least, maybe 5.....

[TheLeviathan]

 

Hmmmm.....so we think it isn't time travel, that months or YEARS have passed......and no one knows what is happening on the Wall? I find that hard to believe. Not impossible, but hard.

 

How many years from Jon taking over until now have passed? 3 at least, maybe 5.....

 

But remember Mike, the Wall is largely forgotten in general.  They rarely get men sent their way and have to troll dungeons for recruits.  It's basically seen as nothing more than a glorified version of parole.  So it's entirely plausible for the Citadel to just not give a rip about the Wall unless they receive communication.  

[Brock Beauchamp]

 

Hmmmm.....so we think it isn't time travel, that months or YEARS have passed......and no one knows what is happening on the Wall? I find that hard to believe. Not impossible, but hard.

 

How many years from Jon taking over until now have passed? 3 at least, maybe 5.....

Yeah, it stretches credulity a bit but Oldtown is literally on the opposite side of Westeros and the Wall is the lowest of low priority. It's where everyone sends the people they don't want anymore.

[Mike Sixel]

 

But remember Mike, the Wall is largely forgotten in general.  They rarely get men sent their way and have to troll dungeons for recruits.  It's basically seen as nothing more than a glorified version of parole.  So it's entirely plausible for the Citadel to just not give a rip about the Wall unless they receive communication.  

 

didn't pretty much every lord in the North know Jon was the commander? Or am I not remembering correctly? If so, you'd think maybe their Maesters would mention it to the Citadel.

 

If it had been a year, sure. If no one in the North knew, sure. But, I'm not buying it. Too long, and too many people know.

[TheLeviathan]

 

didn't pretty much every lord in the North know Jon was the commander? Or am I not remembering correctly? If so, you'd think maybe their Maesters would mention it to the Citadel.

 

If it had been a year, sure. If no one in the North knew, sure. But, I'm not buying it. Too long, and too many people know.

 

Hmmm, that's a fair point, the Northern lords certainly knew.  I can't recall if anyone in the south had talked about it though.  

[Brock Beauchamp]

 

Hmmm, that's a fair point, the Northern lords certainly knew.  I can't recall if anyone in the south had talked about it though.  

The South seems to have real disdain for the North. Couple that with the broken lines of communication in the North and it's not unreasonable the Maesters didn't have a firm grasp on the situation.

 

But it seems like a convenient bit of storytelling, for sure.

[Mike Sixel]

 

The South seems to have real disdain for the North. Couple that with the broken lines of communication in the North and it's not unreasonable the Maesters didn't have a firm grasp on the situation.

 

But it seems like a convenient bit of storytelling, for sure.

 

Ya.....and not sure it adds much to the story, but ya, not a biggie. 

 

I wonder what Sam will find, frankly, that matters. He must leave, "soon", since he is carrying one of the few weapons (other than fire) that can hurt the white walkers. Otherwise, just another dead end story, maybe.

[Brock Beauchamp]

 

I wonder what Sam will find, frankly, that matters. He must leave, "soon", since he is carrying one of the few weapons (other than fire) that can hurt the white walkers. Otherwise, just another dead end story, maybe.

Sam has to be woven back into the story but it might not need to happen until the grand finale... He could be one of the elements that tips the war for Westeros in favor of the humans. If he reappears, I think it will be in one of two ways:

 

1. He'll be at the Wall to help fortify it with new knowledge that ultimately fails, allowing the walkers into Westeros.

 

2. He'll ride in, deus ex machina style, and save the day after Dany's dragons couldn't stop the walkers.

 

The battle for Westeros will probably have two pivotal moments: the breaking of the wall and ultimate victory.

[Mike Sixel]

 

Sam has to be woven back into the story but it might not need to happen until the grand finale... He could be one of the elements that tips the war for Westeros in favor of the humans. If he reappears, I think it will be in one of two ways:

 

1. He'll be at the Wall to help fortify it with new knowledge that ultimately fails, allowing the walkers into Westeros.

 

2. He'll ride in, deus ex machina style, and save the day after Dany's dragons couldn't stop the walkers.

 

The battle for Westeros will probably have two pivotal moments: the breaking of the wall and ultimate victory.

 

I hope the wall falls with 4-5 episodes to go....and the white walkers are a real threat to the continent....

[Brock Beauchamp]

 

I hope the wall falls with 4-5 episodes to go....and the white walkers are a real threat to the continent....

If the story keeps going at the pace it did this season, I hope the Wall falls with no fewer than 6-10 episodes remaining in the series (it'd be a good way to end season seven).

 

Given the scope of the battle and the forces involved, the war for Westeros should consume most, if not all, of a season (eight).

 

I expect the walkers to make it to the gates of or near King's Landing.