Climate Change

[drjim]

Have any suggestions? Seems like Obama tried framing clean energy into little packets of national security and independence but to no avail. Oil employed a lot of people 3-8 years ago and recapturing those jobs seem to be a bigger priority for folks, long term consequences be damned.

I think a start would be to marginalize the hucksters and stop the shaming.

 

Hucksters lead to easy (and accurate) hyprocrisy charges, and shaming leads to hostility of future allies.

 

Obama's policies were good and right, but they don't exactly inspire a ralkying cry.

[drjim]

And absolutely jobs are a really sticky problem.

[nicksaviking]

Because so many of those folks can't afford the costs of learning new and different skills. Maybe if education became more affordable...

I'd bet a lot of the same skills used to put together an oil derrick would apply to building a wind turbine.

[Craig Arko]

And obviously I'm biased due to my profession, but I really think liberals/Dems make a mistake when they don't co-opt faith language and traditions for progressive causes.

 

Obviously won't work for all issues (ahem, abortion) but this issue strikes me as right in the wheelhouse.

Give it a try, then. It's your planet too.

[Vanimal46]

I'd bet a lot of the same skills used to put together an oil derrick would apply to building a wind turbine.

Maybe. The degreed Engineers shouldn't have an issue finding other employment. The others doing the manual work such as laying pipe or working at offshore rigs most likely only have a HS diploma or an Associate's Degree. That's a tougher sell to get companies interested in them.

[drjim]

Give it a try, then. It's your planet too.

I do, but my reach is currently limited to my congregation and my friends/family.

[Vanimal46]

And absolutely jobs are a really sticky problem.

From my perspective as a recruiter, oil and gas has done nothing but layoff massive amounts of employees over the last 3 years. Houston in particular is hurting hard from the decline in the industry, where if I got a dollar from oil and gas employees calling to find a new job I wouldn't have to work.

 

The industry is so volatile that it could increase again, but I hope they look at alternatives. Two issues I've seen with oil and gas candidates I've worked with:

 

1. the industry compensates them so well that it takes a dose of reality informing them they're not going to get the same kind of pay.

 

2. The perception of oil and gas candidates from other manufacturing industries is if oil and gas does increase, they'll bail to their old jobs. Also, on a particular project, they're so diversified that they don't get the opportunity to work on it from start to finish. Most only work on a particular area of the project, and other industries want someone more well rounded who's done more than just a couple of things.

[Willihammer]

 

And obviously I'm biased due to my profession, but I really think liberals/Dems make a mistake when they don't co-opt faith language and traditions for progressive causes.

Obviously won't work for all issues (ahem, abortion) but this issue strikes me as right in the wheelhouse.

I'm not a liberal, but like a lot of liberals, I'm not religious. That's kinda the thing about "believing" in science, or in my case, believing the professionals, and not a holy text.

[drjim]

I'm not a liberal, but like a lot of liberals, I'm not religious. That's kinda the thing about "believing" in science, or in my case, believing the professionals, and not a holy text.

Some people even do both.

[Bark's Lounge]

 

I'm not a liberal, but like a lot of liberals, I'm not religious. That's kinda the thing about "believing" in science, or in my case, believing the professionals, and not a holy text.

I don't believe that the vast majority of Liberals are irreligious. I think they are able to be secular when it comes to modern times... that can probably be said for a good amount of conservatives as well.

 

I think people with there heads screwed on straight, understand the cracks in the blind faith concept, and are able to maneuver between the worlds of their Faith and Modern Realities.

 

I definitely believe in science, and in America and abroad, global warming denial is strictly based on monetary gain by corporations who pollute our environment.

[Willihammer]

I really think the ven diagram of people who have scientific concern about climate change, and the religious, would look more like a set of testes than an apple, but maybe I'm wrong about that.

In any case, I for one can't be implored to make a religious appeal to stewardship, because anything I would say would ring hollow.

[Craig Arko]

I really think the ven diagram of people who have scientific concern about climate change, and the religious, would look more like a set of testes than an apple, but maybe I'm wrong about that.

In any case, I for one can't be implored to make a religious appeal to stewardship, because anything I would say would ring hollow.

Apt analogy.

[nicksaviking]

I really think the ven diagram of people who have scientific concern about climate change, and the religious, would look more like a set of testes than an apple, but maybe I'm wrong about that.

In any case, I for one can't be implored to make a religious appeal to stewardship, because anything I would say would ring hollow.

I don't know, I think plenty of church goers can separate the two. I don't actually think that most church goers believe every literal word if the Bible but we know there are some of those people. I would think it would be those folks that are climate change deniers, but that's probably a fairly small group comparatively.

[TheLeviathan]

The point is to get people on the same page of trying to help the earth.  Many of the same people that hate climate change talk are the ones advocating to protect wetlands, clean up garbage, etc.

 

There is a point of commonality to find.  I suppose you could keep banging the same drum hoping the tune changes, but banging a different drum seems more likely.

[Bark's Lounge]

 

The point is to get people on the same page of trying to help the earth.  Many of the same people that hate climate change talk are the ones advocating to protect wetlands, clean up garbage, etc.

 

There is a point of commonality to find.  I suppose you could keep banging the same drum hoping the tune changes, but banging a different drum seems more likely.

Dr. Jim is right and you are right. It does not matter who's flag the change flies under. It can fly under many flags. Like you said commonality is the key word. That is right thinking, because it is there.

[drjim]

I think on this issue a large amount of people aren't paying that close of attention or don't know much, so they go along with their political "team". That is why it is important to expand beyond straight, typical partisan divides by co-opting some of the language of people who would not be allies on other issues.

 

Pull enough away and it ceases being a partisan issue and actual action takes place. But that action does have to laid out. This is all much easier said than done and I don't have a great idea how to do it. But I just shake my head at the current tactics.

[TheLeviathan]

 

I think on this issue a large amount of people aren't paying that close of attention or don't know much, so they go along with their political "team". That is why it is important to expand beyond straight, typical partisan divides by co-opting some of the language of people who would not be allies on other issues.

 

Pull enough away and it ceases being a partisan issue and actual action takes place. But that action does have to laid out. This is all much easier said than done and I don't have a great idea how to do it. But I just shake my head at the current tactics.

 

It's easier to have a conversation about what to do when you both agree it needs to be done.

 

I guess the alternative to what you suggest is to stick our nose in the air, make smarmy comments about the notion of reaching out, and let the earth keep wasting awhile while we have partisan bickering in place of conversation about what to do.  Compromise and commonality be damned I guess.

[Willihammer]

 

It's easier to have a conversation about what to do when you both agree it needs to be done.

 

I guess the alternative to what you suggest is to stick our nose in the air, make smarmy comments about the notion of reaching out, and let the earth keep wasting awhile while we have partisan bickering in place of conversation about what to do.  Compromise and commonality be damned I guess.

Nobody's against reaching out. I'm just not going to couch it in religious mumbo jumbo when there are facts. People either accept them, or they don't. 

Besides, whether they believe cilmate change is real or not isn't as important as, how do we change our consumption and breeding habbits on a large scale? This is the brass tax of it. It would be nice if more people were amenable to facts, and its disappointing so many people can't see past their own nose, but it is what it is.

[TheLeviathan]

 

Nobody's against reaching out. I'm just not going to couch it in religious mumbo jumbo when there are facts. People either accept them, or they don't. 

Besides, whether they believe cilmate change is real or not isn't as important as, how do we change our consumption and breeding habbits on a large scale? This is the brass tax of it. It would be nice if more people were amenable to facts, and its disappointing so many people can't see past their own nose, but it is what it is.

 

I guess I feel like the health of the earth isn't worth dying on the hill of "I won't say stewardship!" 

[Willihammer]

https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/trump-takes-aim-at-obamas-efforts-to-curb-global-warming/2017/03/27/18cd955c-1363-11e7-bb16-269934184168_story.html?utm_term=.260372982226

[Mike Sixel]

Still can't figure out why we haven't made computers illegal, and robots, and cars....that would bring back lots of "new era" jobs, right?

[Willihammer]

Jobs >>>>>>>>>>>>>> anything else.

[Mike Sixel]

 

Jobs >>>>>>>>>>>>>> anything else.

 

You left off the front part:

 

jobs for less educated people that will vote for Trump>>>>>>>>>>>good jobs for the future>>>>>>>>anything else.