Is the Affiliation Dance about to begin?

[Jim Crikket]

Seems premature, given the date teams can begin negotiations is still weeks away, but SunTimes is reporting that the Cubs are in the process of working out a PDC with Kane County, ending their MWL relationship with Peoria. http://www.suntimes.com/sports/14636291-419/cubs-plan-to-move-class-a-peoria-chiefs-to-kane-county.html

 

If that's true, it significantly improves the odds that the Twins end up in Cedar Rapids next year. The CR Board has notified the Angels that they are going to look at other options and hope to find a closer geographic MLB affiliate. I've heard their top two choices were the Cubs, if they left Peoria, and the Twins. If indeed the Cubs are off the board, that assures that the Twins are at the top of CR's list.

 

Kane County has been affiliated with the Royals, so Kansas City would also meet the "geographic" requirement for Cedar Rapids (CR is about the same distance from MSP as it is KC), but the Royals are not seen as nearly the same local draw that the Twins are.

[joeboo_22]

Sioux Falls could/would support a AAA team. South Dakota is a baseball state, and Sioux Falls is a baseball city. Its just years of no names and poor marketing and then a pretty bad ownership change which has changed again (somewhat) and then a bad name change has caused problems. I think the problem with them would be the requirements to get build it up to a AAA facility. The stadium though nice only holds in the 4K-5K range.

 

If it was to happen (hypothetically) I think it would require a direct ownership from the Twins, something where they bought the franchise, did the work to the facilities over the next 2 years and were ready to move there for the start of the 2015 year. (I can dream)

 

What about St. Paul though, either AAA or low A. They have the same ownership group as the Miracle, they are close, they have a really good following, they need a new stadium. I understand why teams wouldn't want their AAA team or any minor league team so close, but at the same time it would have some benefits.

 

I just hope the Twins are able to move a minor league affiliate closer to Minnesota/South Dakota

[jtrinaldi]

Seems premature, given the date teams can begin negotiations is still weeks away, but SunTimes is reporting that the Cubs are in the process of working out a PDC with Kane County, ending their MWL relationship with Peoria. http://www.suntimes.com/sports/14636291-419/cubs-plan-to-move-class-a-peoria-chiefs-to-kane-county.html

 

If that's true, it significantly improves the odds that the Twins end up in Cedar Rapids next year. The CR Board has notified the Angels that they are going to look at other options and hope to find a closer geographic MLB affiliate. I've heard their top two choices were the Cubs, if they left Peoria, and the Twins. If indeed the Cubs are off the board, that assures that the Twins are at the top of CR's list.

 

Kane County has been affiliated with the Royals, so Kansas City would also meet the "geographic" requirement for Cedar Rapids (CR is about the same distance from MSP as it is KC), but the Royals are not seen as nearly the same local draw that the Twins are.

 

http://www.pjstar.com/free/x912153883/Report-Chiefs-losing-Cubs-affiliation-to-Kane-County

let the dance begin.

[Darin Bratsch]

How much closer is Cedar Rapids than Beloit to MSP?

[IdahoPilgrim]

How much closer is Cedar Rapids than Beloit to MSP?

 

About 40 miles.

[nowheresville]

If anything, I'd think that the Cubs going to Kane County would slightly decrease the chance of the Twins moving to Cedar Rapids, simply because it would put the Royals in play - although I'd still think the Twins would have the edge in CR.

 

I really don't think Cedar Rapids ever had a shot at the Cubs. The Cubs are the most desirable team for more than half the MWL, and with so many options closer to Chicago, Cedar Rapids just seems like it would have been low on their priority list. I'd even think the Indiana options would be a bit unlikely, considering that the Cubs are hoping the state of Illinois will throw in some cash for Wrigley improvements and having a minor league team leave the state wouldn't help their cause. Then again, the Cubs were in Lansing Michigan before the last big affiliate swap in 06.

 

CR is about 40 miles closer to MSP than Beloit, but clearly has better facilities and there are probably more natural Twins fans than in Beloit, which is only an hour from Milwaukee and less than 2 from Chicago (although you'll see lots of Twins gear at a Snappers game). CR is the closest affiliate to the Twin Cities. Appleton is about the same distance as CR, but they're a Brewers affiliate and won't change any time soon. Next would be Beloit and Clinton, which are both about the same distance from MSP, but Beloit is much easier to get to since Clinton isn't near any major highway or airport.

[nicksaviking]

Good lord, the Cubs and Cardinals have basically swapped this affiliate for the last three decades? What kind of turmoil does changing allegiances between bitter rivals cause the fan base? I think this reflects the situation with Rochester's ambivilant fanbase. Signing with an affiliate doesn't necessarily buy the loyalty of the locals.

[IdahoPilgrim]

Good lord, the Cubs and Cardinals have basically swapped this affiliate for the last three decades? What kind of turmoil does changing allegiances between bitter rivals cause the fan base? I think this reflects the situation with Rochester's ambivilant fanbase. Signing with an affiliate doesn't necessarily buy the loyalty of the locals.

 

I was living near Peoria when they switched from the Cardinals to the Cubs. It didn't really change fan interest all that much. There were a few Cardinals fans who were mildly unhappy, and a few Cubs fans who were mildly pleased, but overall it didn't seem to matter.

[Jim Crikket]

nowheresville: You're probably right about CR not having a good shot at landing the Cubs affiliation, considering there are so many other expiring PDCs in the MWL. That said, I think the Kernels BOD may have been thinking that Des Moines having the Cubs AAA team may have helped. Front office types are always looking for ways to make the most of their time and "clustering" affiliates geographically is one way some MLB teams are doing that. That said, I know there's at least one CR BOD member who really did NOT want the Cubs as an affiliate, but I think that member was in the minority.

 

sbknudson: I think you may be right about it not being a huge deal when a minor league team changes affiliations between two teams that each have a significant fan base in the area, such as the Cubs and Cardinals in Peoria. I do think it will make a difference if Peoria ends up affiliated with a MLB team that has little or no presence in the area, though. Just as I believe it will have a positive effect in CR if the Kernels can catch on with a midwestern MLB team. Even after a 20 year affiliation, you still see 10 times as much Twins, Cubs and Cardinals gear at a Kernels game than you do Angels attire (though one or two regulars are sporting new Mike Trout jerseys this season).

 

There's also another little wild card in play here and that's the Cardinals. I think the Quad Cities would like to keep them, but since no extension has been signed, we're left to assume that St Louis or QC is interested in exploring other options. Would they go back to Peoria if the Cubs vacated? Or would they look toward Cedar Rapids where there's some fanbase, but it could certainly stand to be increased? Just as I think it would make sense for the Twins to try to develop a stronger presence and perhaps increase media (TV/radio) market in Eastern Iowa, the same could be said for St Louis.

 

While Kansas City is about the same distance from CR as StL and MSP, I just don't see the same dynamic in play for the Royals. I haven't seen Royals gear around town since local boy John Wathan was suiting up for the Landed Gentry.

[Thrylos]

Speaking of the MWL affiliation changes, I think it will be interesting to see the attendance numbers (which indicate at least fan loyalty to the local team) . Data from here and about a week old. (Average home game attendance for 2012 is listed)

Dayton Dragons

8,514

 

Fort Wayne TinCaps

5,662

 

Kane County Cougars

5,375

 

Lansing Lugnuts

5,035

 

West Michigan Whitecaps

4,940

 

Great Lakes Loons

3,520

 

Lake County Captains

3,517

 

Quad Cities River Bandits

3,485

 

Wisconsin Timber Rattlers

3,446

 

Bowling Green Hot Rods

3,359

 

Peoria Chiefs

2,767

 

South Bend Silver Hawks

2,663

 

Cedar Rapids Kernels

2,291

 

Clinton LumberKings

1,570

 

Beloit Snappers

981

 

Burlington Bees

862

 

 

I highlighted the team in play. There is huge variability in fan loyalty there... (and infrastructure as well) So there is a pecking (or picking) order.

[jtrinaldi]

Speaking of the MWL affiliation changes, I think it will be interesting to see the attendance numbers (which indicate at least fan loyalty to the local team) . Data from here and about a week old. (Average home game attendance for 2012 is listed)

Dayton Dragons

8,514

 

Fort Wayne TinCaps

5,662

 

Kane County Cougars

5,375

 

Lansing Lugnuts

5,035

 

West Michigan Whitecaps

4,940

 

Great Lakes Loons

3,520

 

Lake County Captains

3,517

 

Quad Cities River Bandits

3,485

 

Wisconsin Timber Rattlers

3,446

 

Bowling Green Hot Rods

3,359

 

Peoria Chiefs

2,767

 

South Bend Silver Hawks

2,663

 

Cedar Rapids Kernels

2,291

 

Clinton LumberKings

1,570

 

Beloit Snappers

981

 

Burlington Bees

862

 

 

I highlighted the team in play. There is huge variability in fan loyalty there... (and infrastructure as well) So there is a pecking (or picking) order.

You are missing

Burlington

Clinton

Bowling Green

Fort Wayne

 

This is the accurate list

Beloit Snappers - Minnesota (signed through 2012)

Bowling Green Hot Rods - Tampa Bay (signed through 2012)

Burlington Bees - Oakland (signed through 2012)

Cedar Rapids Kernels - Anaheim (signed through 2012)

Clinton Lumber Kings - Seattle (signed through 2012)

Dayton Dragons - Cincinnati (signed through 2012)

Fort Wayne TinCaps - San Diego (signed through 2012)

Kane County Cougars - Kansas City (signed through 2012)

Peoria Chiefs - Chicago (NL) (signed through 2012)

Quad Cities River Bandits - St. Louis (signed through 2012)

Asheville Tourists - Colorado (signed through 2012)

Augusta GreenJackets - San Francisco (signed through 2012)

Greensboro Grasshoppers - Miami (signed through 2012)

Hagerstown Suns - Washington (signed through 2012)

Hickory Crawdads - Texas (signed through 2012)

Lakewood Blue Claws - Philadelphia (signed through 2012)

Lexington Legends - Houston (signed through 2012)

[Jim Crikket]

The attendance figures are telling, but the underlying (and perhaps more important) fact behind the attendance is that the teams with higher attendance are in many cases also the teams with newer, larger stadiums... stadiums that also are more likely to have better clubhouse/training facilities for the players. I think that probably carries more weight with potential MLB affiliates than the attendance at games itself. It's not like ticket/concession revenue affects the revenues/expenses of the MLB affiliate.

 

Five of the top six MWL attendance figures are in the league's Eastern Division. Those communities are where the league have new teams with newer stadiums in relatively larger population areas (Michigan, Ohio, Ind) than where the MWL's center was (Iowa, Wisc, and western Ill) 15 years ago. I don't think the Twins or Cardinals would weigh attendance heavily enough to make them inclined to move their MWL affiliate out of the Western Division.

 

I have heard, however, that players like playing at Dayton because it's not unusual to be playing before a crowd of 10,000 or more and that's a lot more people than most of these kids have played in front of up to this point in their lives, unless they happened to play college ball at one of the NCAA baseball-factory programs.

[Jim Crikket]

FWIW, I think Augusta recently extended with the Giants, so that's one less team in the pool this year.

 

At one time, I thought the Twins might look at Bowling Green as a possible new MWL location, if BG didn't extend with the Rays. I figured BG was just a quick drive down the highway from the Twins Appy League affiliate in Elizabethtown.

 

Then I realized the Twins Appy League affiliate isn't IN Elizabethtown KY... it's in Elizabethton TN... and that's a few hundred miles of what I assume might be Appalachian driving from Bowling Green KY. That would mean it's probably just as well to have their MWL team in any city with an airport with decent connections through Chicago or other major hubs.

 

Looking at the list, I remain convinced the Twins will end up in Cedar Rapids or back in Beloit. Clinton might be possible, I guess, or they could hook back up with the Quad Cities (I haven't heard whether that relationship ended amicably when they broke up last decade), but I just don't see a lot of other logical landing spots for the Twins.

[diehardtwinsfan]

The attendance figures are telling, but the underlying (and perhaps more important) fact behind the attendance is that the teams with higher attendance are in many cases also the teams with newer, larger stadiums... stadiums that also are more likely to have better clubhouse/training facilities for the players. I think that probably carries more weight with potential MLB affiliates than the attendance at games itself. It's not like ticket/concession revenue affects the revenues/expenses of the MLB affiliate.

 

Five of the top six MWL attendance figures are in the league's Eastern Division. Those communities are where the league have new teams with newer stadiums in relatively larger population areas (Michigan, Ohio, Ind) than where the MWL's center was (Iowa, Wisc, and western Ill) 15 years ago. I don't think the Twins or Cardinals would weigh attendance heavily enough to make them inclined to move their MWL affiliate out of the Western Division.

 

I have heard, however, that players like playing at Dayton because it's not unusual to be playing before a crowd of 10,000 or more and that's a lot more people than most of these kids have played in front of up to this point in their lives, unless they happened to play college ball at one of the NCAA baseball-factory programs.

 

Having lived in Fort Wayne for most of the last 6 years, I can tell you for a fact that the new stadium is part of it. They just built a beautiful park downtown that is considered one of the best MILB parks nationwide. It helps that San Diego has also had some nice propsects going through there which gave them one MWL championship to go with it. Fort Wayne also has 0 major league teams and a strong city identity, so there are a lot of people who will be diehard tincaps fans, that you won't see in a place like Beloit.

[Jim Crikket]

There's also another little wild card in play here and that's the Cardinals. I think the Quad Cities would like to keep them, but since no extension has been signed, we're left to assume that St Louis or QC is interested in exploring other options. Would they go back to Peoria if the Cubs vacated? Or would they look toward Cedar Rapids where there's some fanbase, but it could certainly stand to be increased? Just as I think it would make sense for the Twins to try to develop a stronger presence and perhaps increase media (TV/radio) market in Eastern Iowa, the same could be said for St Louis.

 

Just a quick update... Found out Quad Cities actually has new ownership since the Twins last had their PDC with QC, so it would seem unlikely that there's any residual relationship issue that would preclude a reunion. However, there are also apparently reports that the Cardinals and Bandits are nearing a renewal agreement that would effectively remove QC as a potential partner for the Twins and eliminate the Cardinals from Peoria's list of possibilities.

[nowheresville]

 

I highlighted the team in play. There is huge variability in fan loyalty there... (and infrastructure as well) So there is a pecking (or picking) order.

 

It'd say its a big stretch to compare attendance numbers and call that "fan loyalty." Just look at population bases alone. Beloit, Burlington, and Clinton are all cities of 25-35,000 people, that aren't even big enough to have their own tv stations to show highlights at night. Every other city in the league has more than 100,000. Places like Fort Wayne and Kane County literally have 10 times the population base to draw from compared to the small markets of the MWL. Now, certainly, the facilities also reflect those realities - as the small cities simply don't have the fan or tax bases to pay for a multi-million dollar new ballpark and facilities.

 

I'd also say that a big attendance is a bit of a double edged sword for player development. Miguel Sano is actually a really good example. He's been able to play, practice, and make mistakes in relative obscurity, rather than with the spotlight of 5-10,000 people watching him every night. In talking to those who are close to him, the MWL All-Star game was a bit of a shocker to Sano, because he was the star that everyone wanted to see, and he got far more attention than he does just going about his business on a day to day basis with the Snappers. Attention and the spotlight have some positives, but there's also a plus to letting him work without being lifted too high for all of his home runs, or jeered too much for all of his errors and strikeouts.

[nowheresville]

Just a quick update... Found out Quad Cities actually has new ownership since the Twins last had their PDC with QC, so it would seem unlikely that there's any residual relationship issue that would preclude a reunion. However, there are also apparently reports that the Cardinals and Bandits are nearing a renewal agreement that would effectively remove QC as a potential partner for the Twins and eliminate the Cardinals from Peoria's list of possibilities.

 

My understanding is that the Twins weren't all that happy about how their time in the QC ended in 2006. From what I remember at the time, and/or from when the Twins had previously renewed in Beloit, Terry Ryan has talked about how the Swing/River Bandits basically kicked them out of town so that they could try to lure either the Cubs or Cardinals.

 

I didn't know about the new ownership, but from the sounds of things with their negotiations with the Cards, it won't matter much anyway.

[jtrinaldi]

Just a quick update... Found out Quad Cities actually has new ownership since the Twins last had their PDC with QC, so it would seem unlikely that there's any residual relationship issue that would preclude a reunion. However, there are also apparently reports that the Cardinals and Bandits are nearing a renewal agreement that would effectively remove QC as a potential partner for the Twins and eliminate the Cardinals from Peoria's list of possibilities.

 

My understanding is that the Twins weren't all that happy about how their time in the QC ended in 2006. From what I remember at the time, and/or from when the Twins had previously renewed in Beloit, Terry Ryan has talked about how the Swing/River Bandits basically kicked them out of town so that they could try to lure either the Cubs or Cardinals.

 

I didn't know about the new ownership, but from the sounds of things with their negotiations with the Cards, it won't matter much anyway.

Yup

The Twins are trying to get rid of Beloit,while Beloit wants to re up with the Twins. The Twins told Beloit they want to see how every plays out and will come back to the Board if nothing is figured out with a new city at the end of september

[greengoblinrulz]

St Paul mayor was on Patrick Reusses show & said they are 2wks away from announcing a new 27m ballpark for the independant Saints.

Reusse has pushed for Mn to move the club here for wks....says he has gotten confirmation that they could move it here. Coleman says they have gotten MLBs ok that the park specifics fits Class A requirements. Park will be 7k & be ready in 2 yrs

Hmmmmmm

[James]

St Paul mayor was on Patrick Reusses show & said they are 2wks away from announcing a new 27m ballpark for the independant Saints.

Reusse has pushed for Mn to move the club here for wks....says he has gotten confirmation that they could move it here. Coleman says they have gotten MLBs ok that the park specifics fits Class A requirements. Park will be 7k & be ready in 2 yrs

Hmmmmmm

But if the Saints were affiliated with the Twins, I would be far less likely to get really drunk while tailgating and not wonder in to the game until the 5th inning. And where would the hot tubs go? And would they get rid of dollar beer night? So many questions.

 

This is actually really exciting news. It would be really cool to see some young players in the system, possibly right after they are drafted.

[greengoblinrulz]

coleman said the Saints would be separate from the Class A tm, if they got it, playin every day if needed as well as doubleheaders with both tms. Light rail will run from near the new park to Target Field & would schedule conflicting gms in different times so fans can see both if they wish.

Sounds like theyve thought this out more than just a passing fad

[Jim Crikket]

coleman said the Saints would be separate from the Class A tm, if they got it, playin every day if needed as well as doubleheaders with both tms. Light rail will run from near the new park to Target Field & would schedule conflicting gms in different times so fans can see both if they wish.

Sounds like theyve thought this out more than just a passing fad

 

Interesting. If the Twins only sign a 2-year PDC with whichever MWL location they end up partnering with this fall, that might be telling. Most "new" partners want a four year agreement and then extend for subsequent 2 year extensions unless there's a really strong tie developed.

 

A separate Class A team beyond the Saints makes some sense for a couple of reasons. (1) because the only way StP could get a MWL team would be if an existing community sold their franchise. It wouldn't be beyond reason to see the Twins actually buy out a struggling community's franchise, like Beloit, and then move the team to StP. (2) I can't see the Twins approving invasion of their local market by a Class A team they did not control... that could result in an affiliate of another MLB team eventually being in StP. This situation would potentially exist if the Saints current ownership was allowed to own the "new" Class A team in StP.

 

On the other hand, I have trouble seeing how two minor league teams... one affiliated and one independent... could survive in one location (never mind using one stadium). Ballfields need time to recover during road trips to avoid becoming over-stressed (I've heard that's happening in Rochester this year where the Yankees AAA team is using Frontier Field for a lot of their "home" games while their stadium is being renovated).

 

Beyond logistics, however, the bottom line is that, all other things being equal, affiliated teams can charge far less for tickets and concessions than independent teams can. If the Saints have to pay their players/coaches out of their own revenues and a Class A team doesn't have that expense, there's a huge competitve advantage for the Class A team. How would the Saints survive? Would the local population really support BOTH teams well enough? Maybe... but it seems unlikely.

 

On the other hand, this is exactly the public stance St Paul would probably have to take. They can't say they have an agreement with the Twins, because that would place the Twins afoul of MLB Rule 56 and cost them a hefty little fine, not to mention screw up the team's negotiations with potential Class A affiliates next month.

[greengoblinrulz]

Claiming to know nothing about runnin a Class A tm.....Saints play 72gms, i believe, during june-aug. Thats only 36 xtra gms which is better than the 72 Roc had to incur....no xtra in april/may either when weather is the worst.

Per Seth's article, Twins do seem to have a new philosophy to independent ball

[MWLFan]

How would the travel from say Michigan to St. Paul effect this sceanrio for the league? Even the trek from Kane County will be substaintal. Scheduling could be tough without a team a little closer would it not? Would the Twins need to augment the road teams expenses in order for them to make it work? I can't believe MWL franchises would want to travel to the Twin Cities and incur the travel time and additional cost in lodging in the TC versus what they pay in the QC? But I could be way out there on that island. I still think CR makes the most sense.

[Thrylos]

A separate Class A team beyond the Saints makes some sense for a couple of reasons. (1) because the only way StP could get a MWL team would be if an existing community sold their franchise. It wouldn't be beyond reason to see the Twins actually buy out a struggling community's franchise, like Beloit, and then move the team to StP. (2) I can't see the Twins approving invasion of their local market by a Class A team they did not control... that could result in an affiliate of another MLB team eventually being in StP. This situation would potentially exist if the Saints current ownership was allowed to own the "new" Class A team in StP.

 

Agreed. The other thing that comes in play with an A team in the Twin Cities is the distance from other ballparks that may necessitate flying. And I hope that if the Twins buy a MiLB club and move it to the Cities, it would be the AAA team and not the A team. Having a AAA team close makes a ton of difference. I can see them buying Vegas (or even the Tuscon club that is drawing a A level like 2,889) and moving it up there. The 2 year agreement with Rochester gives them that option.

[Jim Crikket]

I agree that a AAA team would make a lot more sense, but if the new stadium is going to be a 7,000 seat stadium, that's relatively small for AAA, isn't it? (I think Tuscon got bought and is moving to El Paso, isn't it? Or am I thinking of another PCL team?)

 

MWLFan, travel would be an obstacle. As I think I've mentioned, by rule, they have to schedule an off day any time a minor league team has to travel more than 500 miles (unless they fly). Every team in the current Western Division of MWL would be under that distance (CR at 243 is the closest, Peoria at 422 is the furthest, with the rest running between 264 and 372). Every team but one in the Eastern Division would be OVER the 500 mile mark (South Bend at 493 is the closest, Bowling Green at 808 is the furthest, with the rest running between 560 and 761).

 

Could that hurdle be overcome by spacing out road trips? Maybe... Bowling Green is also way outside the footprint of the rest of the MWL... but a relocation would, I believe, require approval of other MWL teams and there is no doubt that moving an existing team to StPaul would increase everyone's travel costs (which are paid for almost entirely by the minor league affiliate). Not a lot of Western Division teams are operating in the black, so any increase in costs could be problematic. I've been told that there was an effort a few years ago to put a MWL team in Marion IL (near southern tip of IL) and it got nixed due to travel distance.

[Thrylos]

I agree that a AAA team would make a lot more sense, but if the new stadium is going to be a 7,000 seat stadium, that's relatively small for AAA, isn't it?.

 

True. Most AAA ballparks are around 10000 people but the attendance is not. If they pack a 7000 seat stadium and have adequate standing room and glass seating, they will do ok. Most people these days unfortunately do not sit and watch baseball games.

[Jim Crikket]

OK I went back and actually listened to the interview with Coleman and you have to really try hard to take what he says as any kind of indication that a potential Class A team is anything but a "maybe someday" possibility. It's all Reusse who pushes the Twins affiliation thing and he's never been accused of doing a thorough job of researching anything before spouting opinions.

[nowheresville]

I for one don't put any sort of belief that there is any substantial effort at all to bring affiliated baseball to St. Paul. In fact the whole idea that you'd have an A-ball and an Indie League team sharing a stadium is just kind of silly, and puts it into a beyond a pipedream kind of talk.

 

Having said that, I don't think the logistics of being in St. Paul would be that out of line for the Midwest League. The league just expanded to Bowling Green and Lake County Ohio, and both of those teams are just as far from any eastern division teams as St. Paul would be from Appleton and Cedar Rapids. The bigger question would be what MWL team would really be on the market at this point. People tend to forget that Beloit and Burlington, despite their old parks and low attendance, are community run non-profits, and at least in Beloit's case, the Snappers actually have been consistantly in the black. Pretty much everyone else has a reasonably new ballpark, although if I'd guess any team is in danger of moving, it might be Peoria, especially if the Cubs leave.

 

AAA would be a bit more interesting, and St. Paul would seem to be a better fit in the PCL. The Tucson franchise is available, ironically because the Padres attempts to move their AAA team to into their own backyard fell through. San Diego planned to move the team to a SD suburb, but needed a home while the new AAA stadium was built. Money for the new stadium fell through, and so the team is stuck in Tucson and up for sale (El Paso is interested, but I don't think the sale is a done deal). As it is, Tucson was really only picked as a home for the team as a last resort, because Portland converted their ballpark to a Soccer stadium, and the old Dbacks/WSox spring training complex was available as a stop gap.

 

But again, plans for real minor league baseball in St. Paul don't seem like anything more than some wishful thinking, and to me its more amusing "what if" talk than anything else.

[Jim Crikket]

Talked with some people with the Kernels this weekend and I can just say that they had heard about Coleman's comments and it will be an issue they'll be taking up with Twins officials as a part of any discussions held between CR and the Twins after 9/16. Cedar Rapids wants a long-term relationship and if they get a sense that they'd just be a stopgap while the Twins wait until St Paul is doable, I don't believe we'll see the Twins in Cedar Rapids next year.