Is the Affiliation Dance about to begin?

[jtrinaldi]

I hadn't really heard anything about the A's, but like the other California teams, it probably doesn't matter much to them whether they're in the MWL or Sally from a geographic fit perspective.

 

The Peoria JournalStar put out thumbnail sketches of the 15 MLB teams that still don't have a low-A affiliate lined up for 2013. Ten are currently in the MWL and five in SAL.

 

http://www.pjstar.com/sports/x1903462898/Chiefs-are-searching-for-a-parent

South Bend Re upped in March, Rockies and the Marlins just re upped

[Jim Crikket]

Yeah, I thought that seemed like too many Sally teams and I see that the guy at minorleaguesource.com got caught up on the South Bend news, too.

 

Here's the list of remaining MWL/SAL locations that I haven't seen or heard about renewals. Looks like an even dozen remaining possible landing spots for the Twins Class A affiliate. Some obviously more/less likely than others.

 

Beloit WI – Beloit Snappers

Harry C. Pohlman Field

Built: 1982

Cap: 3500

Twins expired 2012 (Twins reported looking to move)

 

Burlington IA – Burlington Bees

Community Field

Built 1947 (destroyed by fire), Rebuilt 1973

Cap: 3200

A's expired 2012 (A's reported unlikely to return)

 

Cedar Rapids IA- Cedar Rapids Kernels

Perfect Game Field at Veterans Memorial Stadium

Built: 2002

Cap: 5300

Angels expired 2012 (CR notified Angels they would look for midwest affiliate)

 

Clinton IA – Clinton Lumber Kings

Ashford University Field

Built: 1937, remodel 2006

Cap: 4000

Mariners expired 2012

 

Davenport IA – Quad Cities River Bandits

Modern Woodmen Park

Built: 1931, Rebuilt 2004

Cap: 4024

Cardinals expired 2012 (QC wants to renew, Cards have not committed)

 

Dayton OH – Dayton Dragons

Fifth Third Field

Built: 2000

Cap: 7230

Reds expired 2012 (renewal seems highly likely)

 

Fort Wayne IN – Fort Wayne Tincaps

Parkview Field

Built: 2009

Cap: 8100

Padres expired 2012

 

Geneva IL – Kane County Cougars

Fifth Third Bank Ballpark

Built: 1991, Renovated 2009

Cap: 7400

Royals expired 2012 (reportedly will sign with Cubs)

 

Peoria IL – Peoria Chiefs

O'Brien Field

Built: 2002

Cap: 7500

Cubs expired 2012 (Reportedly will need new MLB affiliate)

 

SALLY

 

Hagersown MD - Hagerstown Suns

Municipal Stadium

Built: 1930, Renovations 2010-11

Cap: 4600

Nationals expired 2012 (geographic fit, would seem likely to renew)

 

Lexington KY – Lexington Legends

Whitaker Bank Park

Built: 2001

Cap: 6994

Astros expired 2012

 

Savannah GA – Savannah Sand Gnats

Grayson Stadium

Built: 1926

Cap: 4000, Remodeled 2007

Mets expired 2012

[jtrinaldi]

Yeah, I thought that seemed like too many Sally teams and I see that the guy at minorleaguesource.com got caught up on the South Bend news, too.

 

Here's the list of remaining MWL/SAL locations that I haven't seen or heard about renewals. Looks like an even dozen remaining possible landing spots for the Twins Class A affiliate. Some obviously more/less likely than others.

 

Beloit WI – Beloit Snappers

Harry C. Pohlman Field

Built: 1982

Cap: 3500

Twins expired 2012 (Twins reported looking to move)

 

Burlington IA – Burlington Bees

Community Field

Built 1947 (destroyed by fire), Rebuilt 1973

Cap: 3200

A's expired 2012 (A's reported unlikely to return)

 

Cedar Rapids IA- Cedar Rapids Kernels

Perfect Game Field at Veterans Memorial Stadium

Built: 2002

Cap: 5300

Angels expired 2012 (CR notified Angels they would look for midwest affiliate)

 

Clinton IA – Clinton Lumber Kings

Ashford University Field

Built: 1937, remodel 2006

Cap: 4000

Mariners expired 2012

 

Davenport IA – Quad Cities River Bandits

Modern Woodmen Park

Built: 1931, Rebuilt 2004

Cap: 4024

Cardinals expired 2012 (QC wants to renew, Cards have not committed)

 

Dayton OH – Dayton Dragons

Fifth Third Field

Built: 2000

Cap: 7230

Reds expired 2012 (renewal seems highly likely)

 

Fort Wayne IN – Fort Wayne Tincaps

Parkview Field

Built: 2009

Cap: 8100

Padres expired 2012

 

Geneva IL – Kane County Cougars

Fifth Third Bank Ballpark

Built: 1991, Renovated 2009

Cap: 7400

Royals expired 2012 (reportedly will sign with Cubs)

 

Peoria IL – Peoria Chiefs

O'Brien Field

Built: 2002

Cap: 7500

Cubs expired 2012 (Reportedly will need new MLB affiliate)

 

SALLY

 

Hagersown MD - Hagerstown Suns

Municipal Stadium

Built: 1930, Renovations 2010-11

Cap: 4600

Nationals expired 2012 (geographic fit, would seem likely to renew)

 

Lexington KY – Lexington Legends

Whitaker Bank Park

Built: 2001

Cap: 6994

Astros expired 2012

 

Savannah GA – Savannah Sand Gnats

Grayson Stadium

Built: 1926

Cap: 4000, Remodeled 2007

Mets expired 2012

Tuesday through Thursday should be very interesting.

The Mets and Astros are both likely to come to the MWL, Mets really want Fort Wayne, but Fort Wayne is pretty happy with the Padres so I really don't see a change there.

Apparently Savannah is comparable to Clinton in terms of ballpark, so I can see why the Mets want out.

The Nats do not want to come back to Haggerstown because of the quality of the field , and low attendance.

Royals could be a fit for one of the SALLY openings.

I think the Cardinals are likely targeting Peoria which is why there is a hold up.

Just wonder what is going on with Clinton.

Ill guess that it looks like this for next year, should be very interesting to see how many I get correct.

 

Beloit Snappers - Houston Astros

Burlington Bees - Washington Nationals

Cedar Rapids Kernels - Minnesota Twins

Clinton Lumber Kings - Los Angeles Angels

Dayton Dragons - Cincinnati

Fort Wayne TinCaps - San Diego Padres

Kane County Cougars - Chicago Cubs

Peoria Chiefs - St.Louis Cardinals

Quad Cities River Bandits - New York Mets

Hagerstown Suns - Seattle Mariners

Lexington Legends - Kansas City Royals

Savannah Sand Gnats - Oakland Athletics

[Jim Crikket]

Tuesday through Thursday should be very interesting.

The Mets and Astros are both likely to come to the MWL, Mets really want Fort Wayne, but Fort Wayne is pretty happy with the Padres so I really don't see a change there.

Apparently Savannah is comparable to Clinton in terms of ballpark, so I can see why the Mets want out.

The Nats do not want to come back to Haggerstown because of the quality of the field , and low attendance.

Royals could be a fit for one of the SALLY openings.

I think the Cardinals are likely targeting Peoria which is why there is a hold up.

Just wonder what is going on with Clinton.

Ill guess that it looks like this for next year, should be very interesting to see how many I get correct.

 

Beloit Snappers - Houston Astros

Burlington Bees - Washington Nationals

Cedar Rapids Kernels - Minnesota Twins

Clinton Lumber Kings - Los Angeles Angels

Dayton Dragons - Cincinnati

Fort Wayne TinCaps - San Diego Padres

Kane County Cougars - Chicago Cubs

Peoria Chiefs - St.Louis Cardinals

Quad Cities River Bandits - New York Mets

Hagerstown Suns - Seattle Mariners

Lexington Legends - Kansas City Royals

Savannah Sand Gnats - Oakland Athletics

 

I'll play along:

 

Beloit Snappers - Astros

Burlington Bees - Royals (I think they'll stay in the midwest)

Cedar Rapids Kernels - Twins

Clinton Lumber Kings - Mariners renew

Dayton Dragons - Reds

Fort Wayne TinCaps - Padres

Kane County Cougars - Cubs

Peoria Chiefs - Cardinals

Quad Cities River Bandits - Angels (they've had two tours in QC before)

Hagerstown Suns - Nationals (stay nearby)

Lexington Legends - Mets

Savannah Sand Gnats - Athletics

 

This is tough, though, because I do think there's a really good chance that St Louis stays in the QC and if that happens, my predictions change quite a bit. I think the Royals would end up in Peoria and the Angels in Lexington. I guess that would leave Burlington for the Mets.

[nowheresville]

I'll take a guess.

 

Beloit - Royals

Burlington - Astros

Cedar Rapids - Twins

Clinton - Mariners

Dayton - Reds

Fort Wayne - Padres

Kane Co - Cubs

Peoria - Angels

Quad Cities - Cardinals

Hagerstown - Mets

Lexington - As

Savannah - Nationals

[jtrinaldi]

It just seems to make perfect sense for the Cardinals in Peoria, only a 3 hour drive for fans (which they would be able to do busses to go up for weekend series). Lexington is a desirable city, which is why I am confused why they have not re-upped with Houston yet. You have any news about Clinton's relationship with the M's? I wouldn't mind the Royals in Beloit, Zimmer and Bubba would start here next year.

Jim, I'll be seeing you in Cedar Rapids with my Twin brother, April 5,6,7 as Beloit will be starting their season in CR.

[jtrinaldi]

and now we have this

[jtrinaldi]

Latest update : Fort Wayne to look for new affiliation.

[jtrinaldi]

Going to busy over the next week trying to figure out who ends up where......

 

A source says that he believes we should see a Houston to Quad Cities and High Desert announcement soon. Why ? The Astros want out of Lancaster and are willing to go to High Desert. A team that is owned by the same two men who own the Quad Cities franchise as the company Main Street Baseball. The current Astros GM Luhnow helped broker the deal for the Cardinals when they first went to Quad Cities when he was the Cardinals GM.

[Jim Crikket]

It just seems to make perfect sense for the Cardinals in Peoria, only a 3 hour drive for fans (which they would be able to do busses to go up for weekend series). Lexington is a desirable city, which is why I am confused why they have not re-upped with Houston yet. You have any news about Clinton's relationship with the M's? I wouldn't mind the Royals in Beloit, Zimmer and Bubba would start here next year.

Jim, I'll be seeing you in Cedar Rapids with my Twin brother, April 5,6,7 as Beloit will be starting their season in CR.

 

I haven't heard anything at all about the M's and Clinton. Seems like they've fielded competitive teams, so while maybe they'd prefer a midwestern MLB affiliation, just like CR does, I thought Clinton would like to keep things going as is. They had a nice renovation to their home clubhouse and workout facilities not long ago, so I'm not sure the M's could really do a lot better. I guess maybe one of the parties just saw 8-9 affiliations not renewing and decided it wouldn't hurt to see what options became available.

 

I think the Angels' priority is (a) decent facilities at least, and ( relatively accessible airport nearby. QC and CR have good connections to LA and I assume Lexington probably does too. Burlington, Clinton, Beloit, not so much I assume.

 

I did see that the Kernels open up the season in April by hosting Beloit. If it's not snowing, I'll probably be out there. We'll have to find one another and have a beer or a spiked hot chocolate, whichever seems appropriate at the time.

[Jim Crikket]

Savannah extended with the Mets, so cross that one off our lists.

 

http://savannah.sandgnats.milb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20120912&content_id=38307900&vkey=pr_t543&fext=.jsp&sid=t543

[Seth Stohs]

Jeff Flickenger of the Beloit Daily News talked to Matt Bosen, the GM of the Snappers, Jim Rantz and others on the Beloit situation. Definitely worth a read: http://www.beloitdailynews.com/news/snappers-unsure-of-team/article_6c7cc61c-fcea-11e1-a984-0019bb2963f4.html

[Jim Crikket]

Thanks for the link, Seth. Too bad about the Snappers losing their head groundskeeper. I thought he had the field looking pretty decent when I was up there.

 

The GM comments about July being a tough month for attendance rings familiar. CR had a down season attendance-wise, as well, and it's pretty easy to point at the ridiculously hot July-August stretch that hurt the most. Nobody was going to the ballpark when it was 100 degrees out there.

 

Not sure when the interview was conducted, but as we've figured out, there have been a number of Class A renewals since people talked about 16 total Class A contracts being up. Looks like we're now down to 11. 9 in MWL and 2 in SAL.

[Jim Crikket]

If the Nationals were considering leaving Hagerstown due to the field and attendance, they may rethink things. Looks like an anonymous citizen has agreed with the city to cover half of the $30 million cost of a new stadium, that would open in 2015.

 

http://sunsfanclub.blogspot.com/2012/09/city-council-announces-private.html

[jtrinaldi]

I think the biggest surprise this offseason in the MWL is Fort Wayne telling the Padres that they will not renew, and Quad Cities leaving, albeit we already know they will be in Peoria. There is still no team that is the front runner for Beloit, we will know between next Tuesday and Thursday. Beloit really has no leverage. Fort Wayne holds all the keys, because any team wants to get into Fort Wayne and they get to chose the lucky team.

[nowheresville]

I talked to Matt Bosen a couple weeks ago about the Twins leaving, and he mentioned some of the improvements he hinted at in the article. He didn't get into many specifics, but said they were hoping to add new batting cages and make some improvements to the field itself.

 

Do we know that St. Louis is heading to Peoria, as in have their been any solid rumors, or is that just the assumption because it makes sense as a location? I have to think that St. Louis would be the pick of the litter for most all of the MWL openings, and someone like Fort Wayne could make a pretty good offer.

[Jim Crikket]

Do we know that St. Louis is heading to Peoria, as in have their been any solid rumors, or is that just the assumption because it makes sense as a location? I have to think that St. Louis would be the pick of the litter for most all of the MWL openings, and someone like Fort Wayne could make a pretty good offer.

 

I think it's all supposition, at this point. It's logical, just as Twins to CR is logical. But the Cardinals' GM was their farm director in 2004 when Peoria ditched the Cards in favor of the Cubs. Geography certainly is one factor MLB teams consider, but it's not the only factor.

 

I'm not quite as certain that St. Louis would be the favorite pick from among MWL open cities. I've heard their front office is notorious for lack of communication with their minor league affiliate offices and the way they left the Quad Cities office twisting in the wind until the last minute would seem to be a pretty good example of that. Is that a huge deal to a minor league organization? I dunno... but I do know that the new Angels administration made little effort this summer to keep communication lines open and that factored in to CR's decision to look at other options after a 20 year relationship with the Halos.

[JB_Iowa]

Just wanted to tell you all how much I enjoy reading this thread (almost daily now).

 

Have nothing to add about who will end up where but it's fun anticipating the shuffling.

[joeboo_22]

What is the overlying issue that is causing so many teams (on both sides) to test the waters. Is it just a game of musical chairs, where since 1 or 2 are open everyone is open or is it more then that? Seems like there are a handful of MWL teams that have the upper hand, and a handful that will end up with whatever is left (Beloit is one). But it seems like there are a handful in the middle that are open as well. Just seems like I've heard way more this year then any other year when it comes to affiliate shuffling

[Jim Crikket]

Clinton extends with the Mariners. This one doesn't surprise me at all. Not much assurance that either organization would do better.

 

http://seattle.mariners.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20120913&content_id=38374152&vkey=pr_sea&c_id=sea

 

joeboo, I'm not really sure why there are so many moves happening this year other than there were just a ton of PDCs in the MWL expiring in the same year. Honestly, since Cedar Rapids has just pretty much automatically renewed with the Angels for the past 20 years, I haven't paid much attention before. I haven't even paid very much attention to where the Twins are affiliating until the past 2-3 years. I blame Seth Stohs for increasing my interest levels in that regard.

 

It does look like 2014 could be just about as interesting. Already there are 14 PDCs in low A that are set to expire in 2014 (8 in SAL and 6 in MWL). You can probably assume that a number of the remaining 10 PDCs still to be resolved in this Class will be for just a two years, so that 14 is likely to grow.

[Seth Stohs]

I blame Seth Stohs for increasing my interest levels in that regard.

 

I apologize!

[Jim Crikket]

I blame Seth Stohs for increasing my interest levels in that regard.

 

I apologize!

 

No you don't. You aren't sorry at all!

 

Then again, neither am I. In fact, if the Twins don't get better pretty damn soon, I'll probably be more interested in their minor leaguers than I will the Big Leaguers for quite a while.

[nowheresville]

What is the overlying issue that is causing so many teams (on both sides) to test the waters. Is it just a game of musical chairs, where since 1 or 2 are open everyone is open or is it more then that?

 

It seems to me there is minor league equivalent of a 7-year itch - its just 8- years since milb agreements only come up on even number years.

 

If you go and look at the past 20-30 years of mwl history, most teams tend to switch affiliation about every 8 years. There are some situations that are exceptions, where Geography (Dayton, West Michigan, Lake County) or simple good relationships (Cedar Rapids) have created longer relationships.

 

The Twins spent 8 years in Beloit, 6 years in Quad Cities, 6 years in Fort Wayne, and 8 years in Kenosha (the Kenosha franchise moved to Fort Wayne).

 

And it goes the other way too, if you look at the histories of QC, Peoria, Kane County, etc, they've all typically swapped affiliates every 6-8 years.

 

I can't tell you exactly why, although I'd guess that as with anything, sometimes people are just ready for something new. Also after 6 years or so, you're typically dealing with a different group of people on at least one side of the equation, be it new ownership for the minor league team, or a new front office for the major league team.

[righty8383]

I blame Seth Stohs for increasing my interest levels in that regard.

 

I apologize!

 

No you don't. You aren't sorry at all!

 

Then again, neither am I. In fact, if the Twins don't get better pretty damn soon, I'll probably be more interested in their minor leaguers than I will the Big Leaguers for quite a while.

 

Thats one of the by products of having a really bad ML team, more and more people start following the minors.

[Thrylos]

An interesting thought: The original Fort Wayne franchise (early 90s) was a Twins' affiliate (Wizards). Wonder whether there is any interest there. And I think that based on the E-town team success and the Beloit success, the Twins might have the upper hand in putting a good product on an A ball field.

[Jim Crikket]

I've heard the Twins have had internal discussions about possibly returning to Ft. Wayne, but the sense has been that it's a consideration in the event discussions with Cedar Rapids don't go well.

 

Yes, the Twins were affiliated with Ft. Wayne at one time, but it was entirely due to circumstances. They were affiliated with Kenosha when that franchise was moved to Ft. Wayne. Outside of that circumstance, the Twins have always been affiliated with a team in what's now the Western Division of the MWL: Wisconsin Rapids, Kenosha, Davenport and Beloit.

 

I'm still not as convinced CR/Twins is as much of a "done deal" as pretty much everyone else I talk to around here thinks it is, but I do believe it's highly likely. If, for whatever reason, they don't end up in CR, I do agree that Ft. Wayne is quite possibly the next most likely landing spot. I don't see them returning to Davenport after getting kicked out of there before and Burlington arguably wouldn't be much of a step up from Beloit in terms of facilities (and familiarity with the Beloit organization would more than make up for any slight upgrade). Ft. Wayne would clearly offer the best available facilities.

[jtrinaldi]

I have also herd similar rumors about Fort Wayne, they have been picking up a lot recently.

Fort Wayne pretty much has their choosing of which team they want. The Padres are the Wild Card team now. With Lunhow at helm, he will be putting the Astros, to QC so this is what it looks like.

Beloit

Kane County: Cubs

Peoria: St.Louis

Quad Cities: Houston

Cedar Rapids

Lexington

Burlington

Fort Wayne

Haggerstown

[Jim Crikket]

Just was told the CR Board will be hosting meetings with potential teams early next week with team officials getting tours of the facilities and making presentations. These will occur over lunch hours or after work (the Board members are working stiffs, yanno).

 

I won't lie... I'm tempted to spend my lunch hours and post-work hours staking out the Kernels parking lot. Yes, I'm a sick, sick man.

 

I'm told a vote by the CR Board will take place possibly as early as Thursday. Should be done by Friday at the latest. There's obviously no time to screw around on this deal.

[jtrinaldi]

Just was told the CR Board will be hosting meetings with potential teams early next week with team officials getting tours of the facilities and making presentations. These will occur over lunch hours or after work (the Board members are working stiffs, yanno).

 

I won't lie... I'm tempted to spend my lunch hours and post-work hours staking out the Kernels parking lot. Yes, I'm a sick, sick man.

 

I'm told a vote by the CR Board will take place possibly as early as Thursday. Should be done by Friday at the latest. There's obviously no time to screw around on this deal.

They have a 3 day window, Tuesday-Thursday to negotiate. I wonder what the Padres are going to do? Fort Wayne probably wants Buxton or Correa as a marketing chip, so they can get better attendance (Although they are doing great already)

[jtrinaldi]

Talked to George Spelius in Appleton on Thursday, said that at 11:00 tomorrow morning he will receive a list of teams in the MWL that plan to seek new affiliation for next year. They have until 10:00 to figure out with their parent club if they will continue their relationship. Free Agency will begin Monday (if the world series is over Sunday) or Tuesday (if game 5 is needed)