Sano won't play 3B AT ALL this year.

[DaveW]

 

Which he is not.

 

There's lots of talk about Buxton, Kepler, Arcia, Park etc... I'm sure some or all these guys will be great players in the future, but life isn't a video game. The Twins have a season to play in 2016. If these guys want to play regularly at the MLB level, they're going to have to earn it.

 

At the end of the day the Twins decided that they weren't going to give Plouffe away for nothing and keeping him was in there best interests. Fans need to get over it, seriously. Those guys mentioned above will get their chance in time, some sooner than others.

If Kepler can produce a 105 OPS+ or better, then he is a better hitter then Plouffe.

[alarp33]

 

If Kepler can produce a 105 OPS+ or better, then he is a better hitter then Plouffe.

 

And the team defense would be much better with a Rosario-Buxton-Kepler OF, Sano 3B

 

then 

 

Rosario - Buxton - Sano OF and Plouffe at 3b

 

*For a team that has a few extreme Flyball pitchers

[Brock Beauchamp]

And the team defense would be much better with a Rosario-Buxton-Kepler OF, Sano 3B

 

then

 

Rosario - Buxton - Sano OF and Plouffe at 3b

 

*For a team that has a few extreme Flyball pitchers

It's hard to claim the team defense would be "much better". You're rotating out a plus defender at third and rotating in what you *hope* is a plus defender in right.

 

Like somebody else said, this isn't a video game. A lot of assumptions are being made without much evidence to support them.

 

Your alignment very well could be an improvement. It could be neutral. It could be a downgrade. We simply do not know.

[Reider]

 

Given the current roster construction, I don't know if that is the case.  Arcia's career OPS is actually better than Plouffe's.  We are taking Plouffe's bat over a corner OF.

 

In a Sano at 3B scenario, Plouffe would be a great super utility guy.  Get him in against lefties.  He can play 3B, 1B, LF, etc.

Arcia?

 

Arcia hit .199 in AAA last year, where the bulk of his AB's were. He needs to play so well that he gives the Twins no choice, but to keep him in the daily MLB line up. Until then, he doesn't have much of a case.

[clone52]

 

Sweet.

 

Screen Shot 2016-02-24 at 7.08.30 PM.png

 

If you're planning on him being your everyday RF and the outfield is new to him, then you want him to put all of his focus learning RF and practicing RF.  You don't want to divide his attention and time preparing to play 3B when he would only play there 20 games at most.

 

If the Twins get a great offer for Plouffe during the season, its entirely possible that they shift Sano to 3B full time midseason, but if they don't, they NEED Sano to spend all of his time honing his RF skills.

[alarp33]

 

It's hard to claim the team defense would be "much better". You're rotating out a plus defender at third and rotating in what you *hope* is a plus defender in right.

Like somebody else said, this isn't a video game. A lot of assumptions are being made without much evidence to support them.

Your alignment very well could be an improvement. It could be neutral. It could be a downgrade. We simply do not know.

 

Plouffe is basically the definition of an average defensive 3b, I'm not sure where you get "plus" from. 12th of 20 qualified 3b in Defensive runs above avg. 12th of 20 in UZR/150.  

 

From scouting reports I have read, Kepler is more than capable of playing CF in the majors. It's a fair assumption to say he would be a giant improvement in RF over the 6'4" 270lb guy who has never played OF before.  

 

Rosario - Buxton - Kepler would potentially be the best defensive OF in baseball, on a team with guys like Phil Hughes who give up an absurd amount of fly balls. 

 

I don't play video games, so I'm not sure what you mean by that comment.  It is fantasy land to want to improve the OF defense? It is fantasy land to think Max Kepler will be a much better hitter than .308 obp Trevor Plouffe, in a lineup that needs LH bats much more than RH ones?

[Seth Stohs]

 

This. People are reading too much into the 'no third base' comments. I think the Twins are just trying to make it easier on Sano, concentrate on right field, don't be thinking about two positions.

 

If Plouffe was traded, how many days of practice would it take to become comfortable at third, a position he played a lot coming up thru the minor leagues???

 

It wouldn't take very long, and they could throw him in there right away.

[Reider]

 

 

If Kepler can produce a 105 OPS+ or better, then he is a better hitter then Plouffe.

I'm not here to discuss hypothetical situations, I"m here to discuss reality.

 

Mr. Kepler may end up having a great MLB career, but as of right now he has 7 at bats at the MLB level. (.286 OPS). Unfortunately for him, he can't have Trevor Plouffe's job until he out plays him at the MLB level.

[Otto von Ballpark]

 

I should have said that no one with the Twins has said that he can't play 3B. Some have alluded to that, including Gleeman's tweet used in the original post. I think it's an important distinction. 

Seth, teams rarely if ever publicly say a player "can't" do something.  That's a negative judgement of their abilities.  So you're asking for an impossible level of evidence here.

 

Teams often imply the above behind a statement that a player "won't" do something.  I think that is what we are seeing here with Sano.

[clone52]

 

I don't Believe this means The Twins don't think Sano can play 3B.

I think it means the Twins believe that he can play RF.

With that said... Please Mr. Molitor...don't deliver absolutes like that.... Eliminating options can be counter productive.

There was no reason to say that publicly.

The original poster was absolute about it.  Molitor only said it "wasn't expected" that he'll play 3B.

 

Molitor had to say something when the reporter asks "Will Sano play 3b when Plouffe takes a day off?"

[DaveW]

 

It's hard to claim the team defense would be "much better". You're rotating out a plus defender at third and rotating in what you *hope* is a plus defender in right.

Like somebody else said, this isn't a video game. A lot of assumptions are being made without much evidence to support them.

Your alignment very well could be an improvement. It could be neutral. It could be a downgrade. We simply do not know.

 

Chances are better than not that a lineup featuring Sano+Kepler (or Arcia) is going to out produce one featuring Sano+Plouffe. Add to the fact that with Plouffe's salary off the books, the Twins easily could have signed Bastardo as well.

 

Sano is going to be a disaster in the OF, dude hasn't played one game in the OF, this is not good. This just comes down to poor roster planning all around. Plouffe+Park have now effectively forced Sano to play a position he has no played before. Maddening.

[DaveW]

 

 

I'm not here to discuss hypothetical situations, I"m here to discuss reality.

 

Mr. Kepler may end up having a great MLB career, but as of right now he has 7 at bats at the MLB level. (.286 OPS). Unfortunately for him, he can't have Trevor Plouffe's job until he out plays him at the MLB level.

If Kepler doesn't produce then you go out and get any of the number of corner OF who can put up a 105 OPS+, there are plenty of them in the majors, in fact the only free agent corner OF who didn't put up those numbers last year seemed to be our very own Torii Hunter.

[Brock Beauchamp]

Plouffe is basically the definition of an average defensive 3b, I'm not sure where you get "plus" from.

 

From scouting reports I have read, Kepler is more than capable of playing CF in the majors. It's a fair assumption to say he would be a giant improvement in RF over the 6'4" 270lb guy who has never played OF before.

 

Rosario - Buxton - Kepler would potentially be the best defensive OF in baseball, on a team with guys like Phil Hughes who give up an absurd amount of fly balls.

 

I don't play video games, so I'm not sure what you mean by that comment. It is fantasy land to want to improve the OF defense? It is fantasy land to think Max Kepler will be a much better hitter than .308 obp Trevor Plouffe, in a lineup that needs LH bats much more than RH ones?

I haven't read a scouting report on Kepler that suggested he could play CF in 2-3 years.

 

And even if someone said that, Aaron Hicks was touted as a plus defender right out of the minors and was various levels of bad for two seasons as he adjusted.

 

We can't assume that your alignment would be an improvement, much less a major one.

[alarp33]

 

I'm not here to discuss hypothetical situations, I"m here to discuss reality.

 

Mr. Kepler may end up having a great MLB career, but as of right now he has 7 at bats at the MLB level. (.286 OPS). Unfortunately for him, he can't have Trevor Plouffe's job until he out plays him at the MLB level.

 

Teams would find themselves in quite the pickle if the only way they were able to promote players were once they had outperformed the player they would be replacing.  What comes first, the chicken or the egg?

 

[Otto von Ballpark]

 

The original poster was absolute about it.  Molitor only said it "wasn't expected" that he'll play 3B.

 

Molitor had to say something when the reporter asks "Will Sano play 3b when Plouffe takes a day off?"

I'm not sure that's the proper characterization either:

 

 

"Unless something happens where either we made a huge mistake in judgment, which I don't think is going to happen, or injuries hit us hard and we have to do some shuffling. But I would hope to avoid that," Molitor said.

http://m.twins.mlb.com/news/article/165347848/twins-all-in-on-moving-miguel-sano-to-outfield

 

I'd say that means Sano is at best an emergency 3B option for 2016, one he hopes to avoid.  We will probably Escobar or even Santana at 3B in 2016 before we'd see Sano there.

[Reider]

 

 

Plouffe is basically the definition of an average defensive 3b, I'm not sure where you get "plus" from. 

 

From scouting reports I have read, Kepler is more than capable of playing CF in the majors. It's a fair assumption to say he would be a giant improvement in RF over the 6'4" 270lb guy who has never played OF before.  

 

Rosario - Buxton - Kepler would potentially be the best defensive OF in baseball, on a team with guys like Phil Hughes who give up an absurd amount of fly balls. 

 

I don't play video games, so I'm not sure what you mean by that comment.  It is fantasy land to want to improve the OF defense? It is fantasy land to think Max Kepler will be a much better hitter than .308 obp Trevor Plouffe, in a lineup that needs LH bats much more than RH ones?

 

Sunshine and lollipops. When Mr. Kepler and Mr. Buxton prove that they can hit at the MLB level, then we can discuss where they should play and who they should unseat.

 

No it's not fantasy land to want to improve the defense. I want to see it improved as well. A lot of these prospects have great futures, but the Twins have a season to play. If guys like Arcia, Buxton, Park, and Kepler want to play in the MLB, they're going to have to earn it.

[jokin]

 

I'm not sure that's the proper characterization either:

 

http://m.twins.mlb.com/news/article/165347848/twins-all-in-on-moving-miguel-sano-to-outfield

 

I'd say that means Sano is at best an emergency 3B option for 2016, one he hopes to avoid.  We will probably Escobar or even Santana at 3B in 2016 before we'd see Sano there.

 

And don't forget Nunez, there's always Nunez...

[Brock Beauchamp]

Chances are better than not that a lineup featuring Sano+Kepler (or Arcia) is going to out produce one featuring Sano+Plouffe. Add to the fact that with Plouffe's salary off the books, the Twins easily could have signed Bastardo as well.

That's quite a leap of faith. I like Kepler as much as the next guy but after seeing Hicks and Buxton scuffle, we shouldn't put too much faith in a guy with one good season under his belt, a season where he had good peripherals but a troublesome BABIP. Many crucified Ryan for how he handled Hicks and now we want him to do the same thing to Kepler.

[DaveW]

 

I haven't read a scouting report on Kepler that suggested he could play CF in 2-3 years.

And even if someone said that, Aaron Hicks was touted as a plus defender right out of the minors and was various levels of bad for two seasons as he adjusted.

We can't assume that your alignment would be an improvement, much less a major one.

Speaking of Aaron Hicks, sure seems kinda silly we traded him before Kepler etc "proved" themselves.... but hey at least we got back a catcher who will play 50% of the time

[alarp33]

 

I haven't read a scouting report on Kepler that suggested he could play CF in 2-3 years.

And even if someone said that, Aaron Hicks was touted as a plus defender right out of the minors and was various levels of bad for two seasons as he adjusted.

We can't assume that your alignment would be an improvement, much less a major one.

 

Keith Law, for one, graded his CF defense as a 55 (above avg) 2 weeks ago. 

 

Ok, so we're back to using Hicks as a barometer for any prospect.  That will be fun.  

 

Why can't we assume an above avg minor league CFer would be a better RFer than a 6'4 270lb 3b? Not sure I can wrap my head around that

[DaveW]

 

 

That's quite a leap of faith. I like Kepler as much as the next guy but after seeing Hicks and Buxton scuffle, we shouldn't put too much faith in a guy with one good season under his belt, a season where he had good peripherals but a troublesome BABIP. Many crucified Ryan for how he handled Hicks and now we want him to do the same thing to Kepler.

Then why not keep Hicks around until Kepler or someone unseats him? Instead, once again we are accommodating our roster and moving guys around for Trevor Plouffe.

[jokin]

 

Speaking of Aaron Hicks, sure seems kinda silly we traded him before Kepler etc "proved" themselves.... but hey at least we got back a catcher who will play 50% of the time

 

I'll be (pleasantly) surprised if Murphy plays 33% of the time. (Not holding my breath on it happening).

[Reider]

 

 

Sano is going to be a disaster in the OF, dude hasn't played one game in the OF, this is not good. This just comes down to poor roster planning all around. Plouffe+Park have now effectively forced Sano to play a position he has no played before. Maddening.

You may be right, you may not be. Lets give him a chance before getting mad? We know he can run good for a big guy and we know he has a strong arm. So what that leaves us with is him learning positioning and getting a good read on the balls. That's going to take some time. If it does end up being a disaster, then Molitor is going to have to make some tough decisions.

[clone52]

 

I'm not sure that's the proper characterization either:

 

http://m.twins.mlb.com/news/article/165347848/twins-all-in-on-moving-miguel-sano-to-outfield

 

I'd say that means Sano is at best an emergency 3B option for 2016, one he hopes to avoid.  We will probably Escobar or even Santana at 3B in 2016 before we'd see Sano there.

 

I agree.  If they trade Plouffe or Plouffe goes on the 60 day DL, I bet we see Sano move over.  If Plouffe is healthy or minor injuries, it will be Eduardo Nunez.

 

I've been saying this all offseason.  Keeping Plouffe and putting Sano in RF is the best option for the Twins in 2016.  If Sano bombs in RF, they can move Plouffe and put Sano back at 3B.  If they had already traded Plouffe and Sano bombed at 3B, they didn't have any fallback option.

 

That said, I think Sano will be fine at 3B and at RF.

[Otto von Ballpark]

I think people are missing how exactly this hurts the team.

 

We finished within 2-3 games of a playoff spot in 2015, and could be in the same mix in 2016, and just promised Eduardo Nunez ~20 or so starts at 3B.  (Plouffe has started an average of 132 games in the field the past 3 years.)  And from Molitor's talk about keeping Sano healthy, there's a decent chance that he will be parked on the bench a similar number of games for rest.

 

This isn't about not trading Plouffe and reconfiguring our roster, this isn't about some issues down the road in 2018.  It's most immediately about a sub-optimal deployment of our current roster, in a year where every marginal win could be critical.

[Brock Beauchamp]

Keith Law, for one, graded his CF defense as a 55 (above avg) 2 weeks ago.

 

Ok, so we're back to using Hicks as a barometer for any prospect. That will be fun.

 

Why can't we assume an above avg minor league CFer would be a better RFer than a 6'4 270lb 3b? Not sure I can wrap my head around that

He'll certainly be better than Sano in right but Miguel might be a disaster at third, offsetting any gains.

[Dantes929]

I think it is telling (not sure what it tells though)   that we've got Milone who has a better career ERA than any of our starters and was 2nd on the team last year and beats the league average for both and we've got Plouffe who has led the team in RBI the last two seasons and they are the two prime players that fans want gone.     Now I am not saying these people are wrong but you do need some guys on the team that perform to their ceiling even if their ceiling does not appear to be as high.   

[Reider]

 

 

If Kepler doesn't produce then you go out and get any of the number of corner OF who can put up a 105 OPS+, there are plenty of them in the majors, in fact the only free agent corner OF who didn't put up those numbers last year seemed to be our very own Torii Hunter.

I don't know if you remember reading any of my posts this off season, but I was very much in favor of the Twins signing an outfielder. Specifically Denard Span, but I was open to other players as well. When Mr. Kepler can hit at the MLB level, he can play on the Twins. Until then, the Twins are going to have to consider and utilize other options.

[mnfanforlife]

.....Just read about Miguel Sano's lack of preparation for the transition to playing outfield in the MAJOR LEAGUES over the off-season. (thanks TwinkieTown) Looks like he really, really doesn't want to play outfield.

[DaveW]

 

 Miguel might be a disaster at third, offsetting any gains.

Again disaster at third is highly unlikely at this stage.

 

1. He looked fine at 3B in the majors last year, his SSS advanced metrics back this up as well.

2. The Twins themselves have been saying for5+ years that he can stick at 3B

3. The consensus from scouts across the board is that Sano could play 3rd base for at least the first few years of his major league career.

 

Why not take the risk? Everyone here seems so convinced that you can get a Freese or other good 3B for nothing in the trade market anyways, so in the rare event that Sano falls on his face at 3rd base (I'd say *;1 or 10:1 odds) then you can just trade for a 3rd baseman for nothing anyways, right?