Plouffe and the Mid Market Payroll

[DaveW]

Yep, which is why I'm not up in arms about this offseason (excepting the bullpen), just a bit baffled by it.

To be fair the bullpen has been a disaster this off season. Inexcusable. I also would like the twins to have a backup plan for Buxton in case he comes out of the gate slow....

[Brock Beauchamp]

To be fair the bullpen has been a disaster this off season. Inexcusable. I also would like the twins to have a backup plan for Buxton in case he comes out of the gate slow....

Not sure if you're disagreeing with me because my point was unclear: I hate the decisions made regarding the bullpen this offseason. One guy. That's all I needed. One guy.

 

Most other decisions are a mixture of "meh" and "huh?" to me. I don't hate the moves but I don't really understand them, either (mainly Park).

[Mike Sixel]

 

You summed up all of the frustrations of those wishing Plouffe was gone and/or Park was never signed--poster's fantasy baseball line-up has been destroyed.  Sano is the "desired 3B"--because he's worth more points there than DH.  Ignored is are the struggles Sano showed as a minor league player and his propensity to get injured.  Arcia seems to be another fan favorite as "old hitting stats are cited"--yet his disaster at Rochester last year (and his foundering in the OF) is also ignored.  

 

True, Plouffe is "only average at the ML level"--unfortunately the only alternative comes with double question mark.  Plus after Sano, is emergency substitute Nunez (Wow!) and then...crickets.  People wonder why Plouffe wasn't just dumped to save salary and permit Sano to play 3B?  

 

Arcia?  Another train wreck in the making.  But Arcia has his fans on TD  but I don't think Ryan is one of them.

 

Park?  It sounds as if posters wish he will fail, because he alters their fantasy team--Wow, what true blue fans!

 

This is a wholly mean spirited comment about your fellow posters.

[Mike Sixel]

 

I think Park does quite a bit better than folks expect, I'm excited about him and have never implied regret about him, quite the opposite. I think there is a ton of potential, I want him even if it's only because his swing looks like Jose Bautista.

Sano is more valuable at 3B than RF in the real world and fantasy. Plouffe is a good defensive 3B but he's not great, the team isn't losing an elite defender. Plouffe is safe if average overall, there are multiple unsafe options with upside. I don't like safe, this team always does safe, let's try something else.

 

My only issue is the age, and even that's more about if they are really competitive this year or not......and how he will age when they are.

[Brock Beauchamp]

 

My only issue is the age, and even that's more about if they are really competitive this year or not......and how he will age when they are.

I don't really like his age but if he's younger, he would have cost a lot more.

 

I don't really care if year three and four pan out for the Twins because Park is making about $3m a year. That's utility guy money.

 

The only aggravation I see with Park is the Twins holding on to him for too bloody long but they didn't hesitate much to send Nishioka packing to MiLB so that concern is probably unwarranted.

[Mike Sixel]

Well, if they aren't competitive this year, and he's not good in year 4.....that means they might get 2 years where his performance matters. I don't care about the money, but the opportunity cost of trying a younger player. I'm not opposed to the signing, just find it odd, as you do, do to the spot in the rebuild, and the context of the current roster.....

[Brock Beauchamp]

 

Well, if they aren't competitive this year, and he's not good in year 4.....that means they might get 2 years where his performance matters. I don't care about the money, but the opportunity cost of trying a younger player. I'm not opposed to the signing, just find it odd, as you do, do to the spot in the rebuild, and the context of the current roster.....

Yeah, I don't get it but I don't think it will be damaging if the Twins play it smart, either...

 

To me, it boils down to Arcia. If the Twins give up on him, I'm going to be more than a little bit pissed off about it. If they find a way to keep both Arcia and Park on the roster all season, then I don't care too much.

[Otto von Ballpark]

 

I think Park does quite a bit better than folks expect, I'm excited about him and have never implied regret about him, quite the opposite. I think there is a ton of potential, I want him even if it's only because his swing looks like Jose Bautista.

I'm excited by Park too, but there's still a large downside to this deal.  He's got a lot to prove, but his contract basically necessitates an immediate starting job and likely a season's worth of starting at-bats.  At the same time we're trying to convert Sano to the outfield.  At the same time we're trying to evaluate (and perhaps showcase) Arcia and Vargas.

 

And it's not just simply Park pushing out a current player, or making out outfield defense worse via Sano.  Imagine if Sano gets hurt again like he did last year, where he's healthy enough to bat but not play the field.  Not unlikely especially if he is learning a new position.  (A similar possibility exists for Arcia, if he wins a corner OF job.)  Then you might have to bench Park right when he's in the process of adjusting to MLB.  Does that set him back?  Does that leave you not knowing what you have in him going into the 2016-2017 offseason?  This could be a tricky situation to manage for quite a while.

[Platoon]

To be fair the bullpen has been a disaster this off season. Inexcusable. I also would like the twins to have a backup plan for Buxton in case he comes out of the gate slow....

They do, and I bet his name is Danny Santana. As for me, Buxton would have to be injured not to come north, but it's not me, I'm just a guy with a day job!

[nicksaviking]

 

Yeah, I don't get it but I don't think it will be damaging if the Twins play it smart, either...

 

To me, it boils down to Arcia. If the Twins give up on him, I'm going to be more than a little bit pissed off about it. If they find a way to keep both Arcia and Park on the roster all season, then I don't care too much.

 

The Park signing is pretty unique, he did get a 4-year-deal, but the $3M per year is basically money you pay a bench bat. If he falls flat, I really don't think the Twins would hesitate to eat $6M if there is a log jam for his spot and if he is that bad, I wouldn't think Arcia would get kicked to the curb, at least not because of Park.

 

However I also don't want to lose Arcia if Park is good.

[Brock Beauchamp]

 

The Park signing is pretty unique, he did get a 4-year-deal, but the $3M per year is basically money you pay a bench bat. If he falls flat, I really don't think the Twins would hesitate to eat $6M if there is a log jam for his spot and if he is that bad, I wouldn't think Arcia would get kicked to the curb, at least not because of Park.

 

However I also don't want to lose Arcia if Park is good.

Agreed. I mentioned earlier that Park is being paid utility guy money. The financial aspect is nearly irrelevant.

[Otto von Ballpark]

The Park signing is pretty unique, he did get a 4-year-deal, but the $3M per year is basically money you pay a bench bat. If he falls flat, I really don't think the Twins would hesitate to eat $6M if there is a log jam for his spot and if he is that bad, I wouldn't think Arcia would get kicked to the curb, at least not because of Park.

 

However I also don't want to lose Arcia if Park is good.

With the posting fee, it averages over $6 mil per year. The Twins would be loath to cut that.

[old nurse]

 

However the Twins didn't have immediate replacements for Santana and Hardy, in this case they not only have a replacement but an upgrade in Sano. Besides, in this situation the return for Plouffe is only the auxiliary prize though, isn't the main prize playing time for Arcia, Kepler, Park, Polanco and/or Vargas?

Nice deflection from the point I made. About the only value for this year to trading Plouffe this off season would be playing time for developing players. Arcia has been in the outfield for 1700 innings,  -19.5 UZR for the career. For a reference point, Hunter was 0.3 last year. Vargas has not played the outfield when there was such notable fielders such as Chris Hermann and Chris Collabello out there. Polanco to the OF or 3b where he has not played or are you adding trade Dozier for middling prospects, too? Kepler had a career year last year, so did Edwardo Nunez. Is Kepler ready for prime time? Maybe by mid season. People here do not come out to see prospects and on the job training team. Look no further than the 2000 Twins or the Timberwolves once the novelty wore off.