2015 = 2001?

[TwinsCD]

I was having a discussion about this year's Twins with a Cardinals fan yesterday and in the midst of that chat, I came up with this notion.  Call me crazy if you wish...

 

Coming into this season, the Twins had 4 straight losing seasons.  2001, they were coming off 8 straight losing seasons.  In both seasons, there were young players in the pipeline who were starting to knock on the door to get to the big club (this year -- Sano & Buxton, 2001 -- Cuddyer and Morneau...to an extent).  Both years, zero expectations.  Hell, we were just hoping not to get contracted in 2001.  But that team had the building blocks with AJ, Mientkiewicz, Hunter, Koskie, Jacque.  This year's team has the potential building blocks of Mauer, Dozier, Plouffe, and Hunter 2.0.  Both teams have pitching staffs anchored by a veteran (Radke/Hughes) followed by potentially good youngsters (Mays Milton/Gibson Milone...ok Milone is a stretch).  However, 2001's bullpen was much better than this one.  Anyway, what I'm trying to say is that to me, there are a number of parallels between this team and it's current success and the 2001's team that turned baseball on its ear for a few months.  As long as this year's team can continue to make strides and stay away from another long stretch of losing like we saw at the beginning of June, I think it can lead to success for next season and beyond just like how 2001 laid the foundation for the success of that decade.

[drjim]

I think this team has more talent, both in established building blocks and elite prospects, than 2001.

 

Difference is that there might not quite be the depth across the entire roster, the bullpen is not as good, and the current squad also has a declining albatross in Mauer. The good news is that the current team has the resources to address some of the issues and to absorb the albatross contract (if not the declining production).

[Otto von Ballpark]

Mauer and Hunter 2.0 as potential building blocks?

 

The 2015 squad is still much older than the 2001 team.  I think the average age difference was like 3 years on opening day.

 

The 2001 team was much better too -- they had the second-best record in MLB until after the all-star break that year, second to only the 116 win Mariners.

[gunnarthor]

I made this comparison a lot before the season.  I thought the keys to the 01 team were 1) The emergence of a couple former top prospects (Hunter and Guzman were terrific that year), 2) Some strong play from unheralded prospects (Mays, Koskie), 3) Not a lot of "bad" players getting at-bats and 4) generally pretty good health.

 

I think this years team has a lot more young talent but it hasn't quite broken out yet.  May, Meyer, Rosario, Buxton, Arcia, Gibson, Sano, Hicks, Pinto were all former top 100 prospects.  Gibson and May both look like solid parts of a rotation but neither (yet) has played better than a middle of the rotation guy (which isn't an insult).  So let's see how the second half of the year goes.  This still feels like a .500ish team and this should be our worst season for many years to come.

[Mike Sixel]

Also, the division is better, isn't it, if we are talking where they finish relative to others?

[diehardtwinsfan]

been saying this since last year.  Obviously not a perfect comparison, but this team I think will finish with similar results.  I expect the next few seasons to really get fun.

[gunnarthor]

 

Also, the division is better, isn't it, if we are talking where they finish relative to others?

I don't think so.  That was an aging veteran team in Cleveland but still  pretty darn good - two HOFers having HOF seasons (Thome and Alomar) and three borderline HOFers (Lofton, CC and Visquel) and a two time MVP having a monster year again (Juan Gone).  And the White Sox weren't bad either and were setting up some of the pieces that would eventually get past us and win the WS.

[drjim]

I don't think so. That was an aging veteran team in Cleveland but still pretty darn good - two HOFers having HOF seasons (Thome and Alomar) and three borderline HOFers (Lofton, CC and Visquel) and a two time MVP having a monster year again (Juan Gone). And the White Sox weren't bad either and were setting up some of the pieces that would eventually get past us and win the WS.

Yes. 2001 was the last hurrah for that Cleveland run. Theu were better than KC this year.

[Brock Beauchamp]

2001 had a lot more young impact players who carried the team or players who stayed with the team. The 2001 squad didn't have expiring vets like Pelfrey and Hunter... At least that's how I remember it.

[Kirby_waved_at_me]

 

2001 had a lot more young impact players who carried the team or players who stayed with the team. The 2001 squad didn't have expiring vets like Pelfrey and Hunter... At least that's how I remember it.

"old" guys on the 2001 team were Rick Reed (36), Bob Wells(34), and Todd Jones(33).

Tom Prince was 36, but as the team's back up catcher, he wasn't playing much.

Denny Hocking was over 30, but pretty much everyone else was not.

 

Some of the hold overs from the bad old days were still around - - Matt Lawton, LaTroy Hawkins, Travis Miller... I don't really count Radke in that group since he stayed as a core member of the "good" Twins.

[Brock Beauchamp]

That's what I meant with "stayed with the team" though I should have phrased it better. Lawton, Hawkins, Radke were under team control, stayed with the team, or were involuntarily traded.

 

2015 is a pleasant surprise but I don't see a lot of comparison to the 2001 squad. The 2016 squad will probably look more like 2001. Most of the 2001 squad were introduced to MLB from 98-00 and emerged as quality players in 2001. The 2015 squad is full of a bunch of rookies who haven't made much of an impact yet. Most of the impact is coming from veterans like Hunter, Plouffe, Pelfrey, Perkins, and Dozier, who are either having a career Renaissance or have been good players for a few years already. Gibson is the only guy who aligns with the 2001 roster.

[Twodogs]

 

I was having a discussion about this year's Twins with a Cardinals fan yesterday and in the midst of that chat, I came up with this notion.  Call me crazy if you wish...

 

Coming into this season, the Twins had 4 straight losing seasons.  2001, they were coming off 8 straight losing seasons.  In both seasons, there were young players in the pipeline who were starting to knock on the door to get to the big club (this year -- Sano & Buxton, 2001 -- Cuddyer and Morneau...to an extent).  Both years, zero expectations.  Hell, we were just hoping not to get contracted in 2001.  But that team had the building blocks with AJ, Mientkiewicz, Hunter, Koskie, Jacque.  This year's team has the potential building blocks of Mauer, Dozier, Plouffe, and Hunter 2.0.  Both teams have pitching staffs anchored by a veteran (Radke/Hughes) followed by potentially good youngsters (Mays Milton/Gibson Milone...ok Milone is a stretch).  However, 2001's bullpen was much better than this one.  Anyway, what I'm trying to say is that to me, there are a number of parallels between this team and it's current success and the 2001's team that turned baseball on its ear for a few months.  As long as this year's team can continue to make strides and stay away from another long stretch of losing like we saw at the beginning of June, I think it can lead to success for next season and beyond just like how 2001 laid the foundation for the success of that decade.

I know I am in the minority here but I just don't get why everyone is Banging on Milone?  I mean all he has ever done is win.  In all or parts of 5 seasons he has never had a losing record.  He is Lefthanded and has proven that he can win at this level.  Sure he isn't sexy when he is out there winning but he is nonetheless winning.  I challenge you guys to find any other starter in the Twins organization who has had 5 straight years of winning, I mean you guys can go down to the minors if you want to compare someone's AA wins with Milone's MLB wins I really don't care but that is what you will probably have to do to make your point.  I understand that you don't want Milone on your fantasy squad but neither does anyone want Mark Buerle either.  But Milone continues to win.

 

Maybe I am wrong, and some of you will say that I am, but you know deep down and I'd bet dollars to donuts that if a guy like Jeff Samardizja had come up through the Twins organization most of you guys would have been making love to yourselves in front of the computer talking about his K ability, his size, etc...  all of the other intangibles about what could make him a possible "Ace" candidate that the Twins sorely need.  However, nevermind that the dude consistently loses, I mean I don't think he has ever had a winning season, but you know everyone would be much more excited about watching a guy like that go out and lose than they would to watch a guy like Milone go out and win.  I just don't get it. 

 

I know, I know.  You guys will run out some advanced metrics that tell everyone why Milone shouldn't be winning and that he must be just getting lucky for 5 straight years, but at this point I'd rather take a lucky guy who I know can win than some great statistical phenom who has proven that they cant win, or has proven to be unlucky, I mean guys like Matt Garza come to mind, great stuff, but he just never seems to put it together, maybe people don't like playing behind him or whatever is the reason, Garza has through out his career proven to have better stuff than Milone,

 

So yeah, lets just get rid of the guys that win and bring on some unproven dudes that have great advanced stats.  I get it, when you are not sure, you probably want the guy with better stats, but at some point results need to be a factor and to me Milone gets results, and when the rubber meets the road in any sport wins are all that matters.  If you have great stats and you lose, who cares.

 

So as long as Milone keeps winning I just dont get the hate for him. 

[Champuckett]

This isn't a bad comparison.  I have thought the same thing a few times throughout the course of the season.  I would say it's closer to the era, not the year, that we were going through in 2001-2004 than just 2001 itself.  We are building something here and the young guys are starting to trickle in to flesh out what we really are capable of.

 

In 2001 no one had us pegged as even being in the top half of best AL teams, yet we finished over .500.  Losing was the Twins Way at that point and we had pretty much zero proven talent on the team and ended up overachieving tremendously.

 

In 2015 we are a more aggressive franchise that spends more on free agents, has more elder players, and we stopped winning not too long ago.  

 

I think the biggest similarity between the years would be the over achievement (so far), and the large amount of young prospects getting in there.  It is weird that Hunter rejoined us, to kind of put a link between both of these eras.  Maybe that will be what he is remembered for by MN fans, getting the fire started.