Gonsalves- continues making a mockery of the MIdwest League

[tobi0040]

 

The Rays aren't a good comparison. They drafted top five from their introduction to 2009. The Twins were bottom 15 drafter almost every year from 2002-2011. Since 2009, the Rays haven't been as infallible as they once appeared. Shocking.

 

Now if you want to talk Cardinals...

 

Definitely. They have drafted really good pitching despite being in the 16-30 range most years.  Wainwright 29th overall.  Wacha 19th overall.  Shelby Miller 19th overall.  Lynn 39th overall.

 

Their position players have really been nothing special.  Rasmus 28th overall.  Brett Wallace 13th.  Kolton Wong 22nd have been about the best picks since the mid 90's.  But if you were going to pick one to draft well it would be pitching.

[jokin]

 

Berrios was listed in the quote.  The Twins are moving almost all of the recent top prospects that are destroying their competition really fast yet some still aren't satisfied.

 

Maybe the running joke can become regardless of well a prospect is doing he can only play in 2 leagues/season.

 

Actually, moving guys up, 1, then 2 levels in one season,  who are destroying the competition is more common around the league than just a "running joke."   It seems like the fast track option over seniority promotion is  something important to have early recognition of, to both enhance and quicken the developmental process of the biggest impact prospects.  The Twins have done it recently with Rosario and Santana at the last stages in the process, and have gone faster than their usual pace with Berrios, and as others have noted along with me, Gonsalves is obviously gaining little by remaining at Class A.   If he repeats the same type of domination over the next 2 months as he has the previous 2, who's to say that he shouldn't be pushed to finish off the last month of the season in AA?

[nicksaviking]

Anyone know what his velocity is sitting at these days?  It seemed to me he was getting results last year despite a lower velocity than his pre-draft hype.  He was always listed as a guy with room to grow though.

[jokin]

 

Anyone know what his velocity is sitting at these days?  It seemed to me he was getting results last year despite a lower velocity than his pre-draft hype.  He was always listed as a guy with room to grow though.

 

Yep.  Clarification on what that cold radar gun in CR is supposedly reading would be extremely helpful.

[Willihammer]

A report from earlier in May:

 

http://www.milb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20150513&content_id=123955952&fext=.jsp&vkey=news_milb&sid=milb

 

90-92 on the fastball.

[Loosey]

 

A report from earlier in May:

http://www.milb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20150513&content_id=123955952&fext=.jsp&vkey=news_milb&sid=milb

90-92 on the fastball.

I saw some tweets, can't remember from who, which claim he was beginning to get around 94 Mph on his fastball in his most recent starts.  So as the weather has heated up it seems his fastball has gained some velocity if those tweets are to be trusted.

[Mike Sixel]

Congrats on the promotion.

[Steven Buhr]

Gonsalves added a couple ticks on his fastball this year, compared to last. I wasn't at his final game n CR Monday, but he's been pretty consistently tossing 91-92, sometimes 93. He can run it up to 94-95 when he wants to let one rip, but he's not consistently there. He will also change speeds some and throw a few high-80s. He's also not "fully grown" and Jake Mauer has said on at least a couple occasions that he thinks Gonsalves will be able to sit 94-95 consistently eventually. I won't be surprised if he does. I also feel his curve has improved some since he began to focus on it, rather than try to use both a curve and a sider.

 

I'm anxious to see how he fares in Fort Myers.

 

 

[Loosey]

Of all the pitching prospects outside of Berrios, SG excites me the most.  He seems to mentally understand what he needs to do more than most 20 year olds would.  Add in his improving repertoire and I think the Twins definitely got a 1st round talent in the 4th round. 

 

Add in the fact that he has struck out 77 batters in 55 innings.  Think about that for a second, that means half of the outs he has recorded this year have come via the strikeout while still being about 2 years younger than most pitchers in the league and 2.5 years younger than the average hitter.  That's pretty impressive!

[kab21]

 

Actually, moving guys up, 1, then 2 levels in one season,  who are destroying the competition is more common around the league than just a "running joke."   It seems like the fast track option over seniority promotion is  something important to have early recognition of, to both enhance and quicken the developmental process of the biggest impact prospects.  The Twins have done it recently with Rosario and Santana at the last stages in the process, and have gone faster than their usual pace with Berrios, and as others have noted along with me, Gonsalves is obviously gaining little by remaining at Class A.   If he repeats the same type of domination over the next 2 months as he has the previous 2, who's to say that he shouldn't be pushed to finish off the last month of the season in AA?

 

Prospects frequently play at 2 levels in a singular season.  Few HS prospects advance 2 levels every season outside of the top ones.  I know you can find some but the point is that the Twins now have those top prospects that deserve to be pushed like this. 

 

Oh, this is a travesty.  It takes 2-3 years to go from CR to ROC.  The Twins are so slow at promotions.

[nicksaviking]

Prospects frequently play at 2 levels in a singular season.  Few HS prospects advance 2 levels every season outside of the top ones.  I know you can find some but the point is that the Twins now have those top prospects that deserve to be pushed like this. 

 

Oh, this is a travesty.  It takes 2-3 years to go from CR to ROC.  The Twins are so slow at promotions.

It wouldn't be a travesty, but perhaps at times unnecessary. A lot of teams are starting to promote these guys quickly as they are seeing so many pitchers peak early and fade away by their late 20s.

[jokin]

 

It wouldn't be a travesty, but perhaps at times unnecessary. A lot of teams are starting to promote these guys quickly as they are seeing so many pitchers peak early and fade away by their late 20s.

Yep, you nailed it.  It really isn't too much to ask for the Twins to get a little further ahead on understanding the developmental learning and readiness curve.  The first six years of a successful starting pticher's career are always the cheapest, and quite frequently,  both the most productive and injury-free- it would be great to get  half of those six years on the lesser or equal side of Age 25.

[kab21]

 

It wouldn't be a travesty, but perhaps at times unnecessary. A lot of teams are starting to promote these guys quickly as they are seeing so many pitchers peak early and fade away by their late 20s.

What HS'ers are going through the minors faster than 2 yrs?  Do you have any idea how ridiculously fast that is?  The Twins are doing very well with a majority of their youngest talent like Sano, Buxton, Berrios, Gonsalves, Rosario, Thorpe and a couple of others.  The only thing that has slowed them down is injuries or in Rosario's case ineffectiveness/off the field stuff.  In addition to that they are getting them to CR earlier.

[jokin]

 

What HS'ers are going through the minors faster than 2 yrs?  Do you have any idea how ridiculously fast that is? 

 

It seems unlikely that Nicksaviking, or anyone else, is calling for Gonsalves to start tomorrow in Boston over Milone- or to Rochester to start tonight over Lester Oliveros.  It's pretty well-agreed, that Gonsalves was a potential 1st Round talent who fell to the 4th round.  Given his perceived talent level and demonstrated ability, no reason not to at least consider him for a late-season promotion to Chattanooga if he continues at his present level of performance.... and then next year, in his FOURTH year of pro ball, completing tours at both AA and AAA.  There are many pitchers throwing major league innings at age 22, which is what Gonsalves will be in September 2016. 

[Brock Beauchamp]

Gonsalves pitches 65 innings last season. He pitched 28 innings in 2013.

 

For him to reach AA in 2015, it would require him to approach the 130, maybe even the 150 inning mark.

 

For obvious reasons, this is almost surely not going to happen.

[diehardtwinsfan]

yeah, we tend to forget about that when rushing a guy. There's a limit to the total innings pitched before he gets shut down.  Gonsalves will probably be shut down around 100-120 innings at best. 

[jokin]

 

Gonsalves pitches 65 innings last season. He pitched 28 innings in 2013.

 

For him to reach AA in 2015, it would require him to approach the 130, maybe even the 150 inning mark.

 

For obvious reasons, this is almost surely not going to happen.

 

yeah, we tend to forget about that when rushing a guy. There's a limit to the total innings pitched before he gets shut down.  Gonsalves will probably be shut down around 100-120 innings at best. 

 

 

At a similar age 20, Berrios threw 140 innings last season (and yes, it was coming off of 100 IP in 2014, so it's not quite comparable). 

Assuming Gonsalves is in a 6-man rotation and/or skips a turn or two over much of the rest of the season if the Twins choose to go that route, it seems he could get 10-12 more starts, which with innings management, would only put him at around 105-120 innings.  That's still a big jump over 65 IP in 2014, but as much as innings pitched as one consideration, with his fine control and easy delivery, hasn't he kept his pitch counts in check this season? (and would give him a shot at a taste of AA in August if he continues to dominate- aggressive yes, but a nice carrot for Gonsalves to shoot for, if properly managed).

[Minniman]

 

 

Maybe now we're starting to find out. Along with the terrible idea of "pitch to contact," the Twins appear to have emphasized young pitchers relying on a couple pitches, like a fastball and a slider, in the lower levels of their system. Then a pitcher was supposed to refine his game and add pitches as he approached the major league level... I guess that was the theory.

 

It's good that the Twins want their minor leaguers to work on being "strike out pitchers." It would be even better if they demanded that every pitcher in the Twins organization was a complete pitcher, with a full set of skills, a game plan and everything.

 

I agree that pitchers need to be complete before making it to the show. A good offspeed pitch is critical, but it is often overlooked.

 

Pitch to contact is not something new. It basically meant keep the strikes down to cause ground balls. The fact that it became mantra was unfortunate because it also meant keep throwing strikes even when getting the hitter to chase a bad pitch was a better option.

 

I like pitchers throwing junk once in a while - especially against strikeout prone free swingers. I would rather walk a slugger than allow him to hit a double or put it over the fence on a mistake.

 

Pitching to contact has its place, but that is only part of an overall pitching theory. The more pitches are mixed up, the less comfortable the hitter will be in the box, so all strikes all of the time is not always a good thing.

[jimbo92107]

 

I agree that pitchers need to be complete before making it to the show. A good offspeed pitch is critical, but it is often overlooked.

 

Pitch to contact is not something new. It basically meant keep the strikes down to cause ground balls. The fact that it became mantra was unfortunate because it also meant keep throwing strikes even when getting the hitter to chase a bad pitch was a better option.

 

I like pitchers throwing junk once in a while - especially against strikeout prone free swingers. I would rather walk a slugger than allow him to hit a double or put it over the fence on a mistake.

 

Pitching to contact has its place, but that is only part of an overall pitching theory. The more pitches are mixed up, the less comfortable the hitter will be in the box, so all strikes all of the time is not always a good thing.

If they need a mantra, how about "Find a way to get guys out." It may vary quite a bit from pitcher to pitcher. Some guys can just blow hitters away with heat and a slider; others require a lot more cleverness. But every pitcher has to figure out a way to put up zeros, no matter who comes to the plate, and the way you do it may have to change depending on the hitters.

 

Pitch-to-contact is one tactic among many. As a mantra it is flawed because teams can adjust their batting plan to beat that tactic. They can decide to shorten up their swings, have more plate discipline, etc. A pitcher has to realize when a hitter is running up his pitch count and adjust accordingly by being more aggressive in the zone. One trick ain't gonna cut it.

[nicksaviking]

 

Gonsalves pitches 65 innings last season. He pitched 28 innings in 2013.

 

For him to reach AA in 2015, it would require him to approach the 130, maybe even the 150 inning mark.

 

For obvious reasons, this is almost surely not going to happen.

 

This is true, and going from 65 innings to 165 innings isn't bright, but any rules about how many innings you need under your belt before you can advance is self imposed.  He doesn't actaully NEED to have X ammount of innings in Fort Myers.

 

After all, Gonsalves was only at 65 innings last year because he had to start his year in the short-season leagues.  Kohl Stewart on the other hand was at 87 innings last year, because he got to go straight to Cedar Rapids even though Gonsalves was arguably better in 2013 and by all accounts, a more refined and experienced HS pitcher. 

 

Gonsalves getting picked in the 4th round as opposed to the 1st round looks to have directly affected his promotion scale.

[jokin]

Gonsalves has his Ft Myers debut this evening and comes away the winner. Not the most impressive line, 5.1 IP 5 H 3 ER 3 BB 2 K. But this is a good step in challenging a prospect who dominated the previous level. I'm expecting that his numbers will improve significantly no later than his first start in July.