KirbyDome89

Can you point to where I said the FO was incompetent or where I said they "stink?" You're attacking arguments that I'm not making. Proficiency and flaws aren't mutually exclusive when it comes to running a team. I assumed that was apparent. Sano, Polanco, Arraez, and Garver in the IF. Rosario and Kepler in the OF, and Buxton would've started over Marwin if healthy. Duffey, Rogers, and May were hands down the best bullpen arms. Berrios got the game 1 start. Every member of that group entering game 1 of the '19 ALDS was inherited by this FO. I'll stand by my opinion that the FO didn't walk into a doom and gloom scenario. What's the statistical disagreement as to whether the core contributions for the success over the last 2 seasons has come from inherited players? Ryne Harper, Blake Parker, Matt Magill, Lewis Thorpe, Kohl Stewart, Trevor Hildenberger, Adalberto Mejia, Fernando Romero, Sean Poppen, and Sam Dyson combined to throw roughly 40% of the bullpen innings in '19. Of that group Harper easily takes the top spot, he was serviceable, and he was DFA'd in August. You can point to aggregate bullpen stats and use Duffey, May, and Rogers to mask how ineffective the middle/back end of the pen was, but I wouldn't call that an objective take. The Twins DFA'd their closer in July, and a month later DFA'd Harper, who finished the year with the most innings behind the trio previously mentioned. Is that normal for one of the best bullpens in baseball? Were the Twins so rich with pitching talent that they simply didn't need the services of either pitcher? If that was the case, why were so many innings be allocated to inferior arms throughout the season? I hope I'm not the only one who notices the disparity between what you've demanded, and what you've provided in this thread.

The winning the last few seasons is because this FO built them to do so, but getting swept in 2 games by Houston, or 3 games by NY, or getting smashed in a WC game is just bad luck? I guess you can have your cake and eat it too.

I could jump through those hoops and spend time mapping out relievers that could've been targeted, corresponding roster moves to adjust for payroll, ect, but that'd be a huge waste of my time. You've already set yourself up to dismiss anything I'd post as hindsight bias. That's the game right? Everything you disagree with is "complaining," "half-witted trash talk," or "illogical," because you're the self appointed arbiter of cogency. That's a mischaracterization in two different ways. I never used the phrase "perfect situation," and I followed up my claim that team outlook was less gloomy than was being portrayed by pointing to the young talent that's been integral to the success over the last few seasons; it wasn't a blanket statement that I left alone. Your responses to both myself and others are at best mild flame bait. Why they're being upheld in this thread is beyond me, but it's clear the intent isn't debate here.

It was one point amongst a few, so I wouldn't call it a hill I'm willing to die on. We'll just disagree whether that '19 bullpen would've been better off with an elite reliever. I have 0 interest in debating the butterfly effect regarding his injury. Alcala certainly could be a nice piece for the Twins, but again, we'll disagree on whether every good FO trades a known commodity from a position of need for a couple lottery tickets.

I provided detail, and rather than respond to it, you offered a sweeping generalization, "that's just how things are," and attacked the original post as "half-witted trash talk." Hopefully the irony there isn't lost. Yes, good teams do beat bad teams; that wasn't the point of contention. The question was to what extent the Twins benefitted from doing so. The AL central had three teams with a record in the bottom third of the league that season. Both KC and Detroit lost over 100 games.The Twins played 1/3 of their games against those three terrible teams. No team outside of Cleveland came close to matching that. Yes, even good teams carry some mediocre pitching, but again, that wasn't what was being called into question. The disagreement was over depth/upside and I specifically brought up the pitching staff. Perez and Gibson spent the entire year in the rotation and both were below league average. Parker, the opening day "closer," was DFA'd right before the trade deadline. Kohl Stewart and Matt Magill took turns being ineffective/awful. Thorpe came up later in the season and joined that party. Ryne Harper, a minor league signing, made it almost the entire season with the team, and he was one of the bright spots. None of that screams depth or upside, at least on the pitching side of things.

I don't understand how you can give full credit to this FO when it comes to "completely turning around a mess of a franchise," but then not hold them primarily responsible when the team flames out in the postseason. If this team is their creation, and we laud them for the division titles and regular season win percentage, why don't they share an equivalent level of blame for the postseason failures?

Every statement huh? In '19 KC and Detroit lost over 100 games while the Sox lost 89. The Twins didn't benefit? Kyle Gibson and Martin Perez soaked up starts that entire year. Guys like Matt Magill and Blake Parker were getting innings in the bullpen. That's depth? The Pressly trade wasn't a bad one? I don't see the irrationality in pointing these out.

It wasn't rosy at the major league level that particular season, but the young players in the organization at that time have played a massive role in the success the club has had the last few years. Does that not seem like a fortuitous situation to inherit? IMO Cruz is probably their most impactful signing/trade and you left him off your list. I'll pick on the other names just a bit though. Odorizzi was subpar in '18, he had a really nice first half in '19 before regressing in the second, and he was pretty meh in a short season last year. Pineda missed '18 due to recovery (as expected at the time of signing) and then missed half of '19 due to injury and a suspension. He started 5 games last season and didn't throw an inning in the postseason because the Twins were swept.....again. I wouldn't add Colome to any impact list. Donaldson certainly is the biggest move the FO has made, and I supported it, but he missed over half of last season due to injuries. Maeda had a great year. I tend to agree with gunnarthor's assessment of him moving forward, but he was impressive last year, even if it was only 11 games. At least at the major league level, I'm not sure I'd say this FO is responsible for the complete turnaround. As has been pointed out, they've augmented the roster, and I think there's legitimate debate as to how well they've done that. Of course there's the modern revamping that has gone on behind the curtain so to speak, and we haven't had a chance to see most of the draft picks from '17 to present day. My push back is directed at the notion this FO inherited a roster that needed to be rebuilt.

I'm probably inclined to agree; I'd roll the dice on Paxton's injury history because of his ceiling, and I think Quintana offers the same floor as Happ with a slightly higher ceiling to boot. Ideally any of those three would take that back end spot, rather than it being a revolving door. Shoemaker has been injured and/or below average for 3+ seasons now. There's no real reason to trust Thorpe or Smeltzer, and I'm not high on Dobnak starting for any extended period of time either. I'm guessing you have Balazovic and Duran as the 6 & 7? If one or both of them could solidify a rotation spot it'd be the best case scenario, but that's a lot to ask of two guys who've thrown almost exclusively in A ball the last few years. The 5 spot is shaky, and that puts pressure on the front of the rotation that is already dealing with Berrios' trouble finishing seasons and Pineda's penchant for DL stints. Are we counting on Maeda to replicate his '20 as well? In a vacuum Shoemaker as a depth piece or ST competition is fine, but similar to what I said in the Happ thread after his signing, the issue is that these guys won't be used as such.

Berrios Maeda Pineda Happ Shoemaker/Dobnak/Smeltzer/Thorpe That back end is far from confidence inspiring.

A dramatic increase in MiLB salary, a bump to the league minimum, ending pre arbitration, and hitting FA earlier would be a starting point. Of course an agreed up revenue split supersedes all of this.

The real question is what are the owners willing to give up in order to implement a salary cap? I'm not sure why the players are to blame if owners are aren't willing to make an equally large concession.

Baltimore, Pittsburgh, and Cleveland all have payrolls that currently sit under the $40M mark that Bauer himself is set to earn this season. That's a problem.

If performance in 2020 is the determining factor for this season then you have to feel pretty good about the pitching staff. They were at or near the top of the league for the 60 game season. Do you see that continuing for 2021? I'm far more concerned about the rotation and bullpen regressing back to the mean than I am about the offense failing to do so over a full season.

I don't know how much stock I'd put in a lot of performances, both good and bad, from last season. They're paying him through his age 35 season. He won't be in his prime, but it's a better situation than what MN has at 3B right now. The Twins are paying Donaldson 21M for the next three seasons, he'll be a few months shy of 38 when that contract ends, and he's struggled with injuries in three of the last four seasons. This isn't to say I'm not a fan of the Donaldson signing; I'm still am optimistic about his impact on the lineup. If MN had a hole at 3B I don't know why they'd run away from bringing in a younger, better version of what they currently have, especially if only cost them a few million more per season.

Appreciate the advice. I'm officially under 5K owed for federal loans (I finished private ones a few years back) as of my last payment, which was the only reason I was considering dabbling in either stock. Similar to TheLeviathan, I'd probably only pump in a few hundred dollars but it sounds like that $$ could either be put towards better investments or running down my loan payments while I'm interest free. Maybe using the money to subscribe to the stock advisor would be a decent compromise as well. Definitely not a diamond hands guy either, at least not at the level some redditors proclaim to be. Who knows, maybe the most vocal ones aren't the guys with lots on the line, or maybe they really just don't care and the potential loss is worth the statement they're sending. Either way, my goal would be to take a little risk and make a little $$.

Honest investment question here; is it worth it to get in on AMC (GME ship has sailed?) from an earnings standpoint? The diamonds hands movement on r/wallstreetbets is incredibly entertaining. The **** RH pulled yesterday and the gaslighting from supposedly credible media sources is disgusting. I'm pulling for the so called "unwashed masses," here, but chipping away at student loans during this 0% interest period would take precedence if my investments likely would be lost.

So we're counting on: 1) Pineda being available for a full season, 2) Maeda continuing to be the pitcher we saw for 11 games last year, and not the 4 seasons prior 3) Berrios to avoid his annual late season fade 4) A revolving door at the 5th spot being productive And if all of that shakes out in favor of the Twins they'll have a rotation that "isn't that bad, could be pretty good, but isn't top tier." Yikes.

They needed this. When Buxton inevitably misses time, having Polanco, Arraez, and Kepler/Cave as the middle of your defense isn't exactly inspiring. There shouldn't be any hand wringing over Simmons' bat. He isn't being signed to provide an offensive boost. There are plenty of bats on this roster capable of making up for his average offensive output.

He's one PIneda DL stint (not unlikely) away from being a guy that needs to give the Twins at least 5 innings in a playoff game. A 38 year old, soft tossing lefty, with a track record of postseason struggles, and the expectation is 5 or more solid innings? Pass. He's only a depth piece if he's used as such, and as the current number 4 I doubt that's the case. Hopefully it changes by opening day.

Not that I disagree, but outside of Bauer almost any starter the Twins will bring in is going to have question marks/warts. The longer they wait the likelier it becomes that they're left with an arm rather than the arm. Personally I'd rather see them target a player(s) and just go get them but maybe the team doesn't see much difference in what's left and they're simply content with the most team friendly deal.

Sad. Playoff berths 4 of the last 5 years. The only season they didn't make it they won 93 games. 2 CY winners and a WS appearance during that stretch too. It's a tough optic when a team like Cleveland "can't," produce even a league average payroll to keep talent around.

If Gimenez doesn't make big leaps you might get your wish, at least for a few years, and even then Cleveland is banking on getting above average production out of Wolf. Good day to be a Twins fan. Not a great day to be a baseball fan in general.

I'm aware. What you quoted was my response to Brock.

I'm not sure why this needs clarification. The 70s, 90s, 20+ years, ect would all be periods of time considered "decades," (my phrase) removed from the present. You're arguing semantics. The larger point, which I already clarified, was that these logos, mascots, ect didn't suddenly become derogatory within the last few years, so the argument, that current outcry determines the level of disrespect, doesn't hold up.