chpettit19

Hasn't Turner made statements about being willing to stay with the Dodgers, but also very much being interested in getting back to the east coast? I believe every story about the Dodgers being interested in stars. Especially with so much money coming off their books this year. They want Judge. They want Correa. They want Turner. They want all of them. The question is how they prioritize them. I've also seen reports that Judge is their #1 target (Mookie moving to 2B is interesting there). Maybe Correa is their #2. I have no reason to think he wouldn't be since those are the 2 best players on the market. Fan boos isn't something the FO cares about, and the clubhouse won't care either as long as he performs. Kenta was on that Dodgers team, do we think he was enraged that the Twins signed Correa? That was 2017. Bellinger (maybe, he may get non-tendered), Turner, and Taylor are the only position players left on the Dodgers for 2023. Kershaw (I'm assuming he stays), Urias, and Buehler are the only pitchers left. That's a max of 6 guys left from that team. This narrative that they wouldn't sign him cuz of 2017 is complete nonsense to me.

I agree things aren't what they need to be with the offense. My point is simply that Rowson hasn't done anything at all in Miami and 2019 was clearly an outlier so it really comes far more down to talent/players performing than anything. Maybe Rowson delivers his message in a way that the 2017-19 Twins processed well and the 2020-22 Marlins don't. Maybe he has a different strategy than the current coaches. I'd bet a lot that the current staff preaches a lot of the same stuff Rowson did since I don't think Rocco and the FO would hire someone with a drastically different approach to them. I don't know where the disconnect is, but certainly agree something needs to change. I also think the talent level needs to change as well. They need to get better hitters.

Rowson is an interesting situation to look at. Here's some numbers. Twins runs scored per game since 2014 (3 years before Rowson arrived, his 3 seasons, and 3 seasons since he left): 2014- 4.41 (league average 4.06- 8% better than average) 2015- 4.29 (4.25- 1% better) 2016- 4.46 (4.47- <1% worse) Rowson Joins Staff 2017- 5.03 (4.65- 8% better) 2018- 4.55 (4.45- 2% better) 2019- 5.80 (4.83- 20% better) Rowson Leaves 2020- 4.48 (4.64- 3% worse) 2021- 4.50 (4.53- 1% worse) 2022- 4.30 (4.28- <1% better) Marlins runs scored per game since 2014: 2014- 3.98 (4.06- 2% worse) 2015- 3.78 (4.25- 11% worse) 2016- 4.04 (4.47- 10% worse) 2017- 4.80 (4.65- 3% better) 2018- 3.64 (4.45- 18% worse) 2019- 3.80 (4.83- 21% worse) Rowson Joins Staff 2020- 4.38 (4.64- 6% worse) 2021- 3.84 (4.53- 15% worse) 2022- 3.62 (4.28- 15% worse) How comfortable do we feel giving Rowson credit for that 1 spike year?

I don't understand the point of the Polanco trade. There's FA relievers available to sign that doesn't cost the team a top 4 hitter in the Twins lineup. Just go sign a reliever. Sign Rodon. And trade for Rosario (I don't know that Cleveland would deal him in the division without a sizeable overpay, but I like the idea of bringing him in in general). What's the reason for swapping out Polanco to fill a hole you could just fill on the open market?

Prielipp is far and away the best chance in my eyes. But an ETA of 2025 goes directly against the idea of him being the best bet. He missed last year, but will be hitting the ground running this season. He needs to end this season at AA at the lowest, if not AAA. He was a dominant college arm with 2 MLB ready pitches (according to some). That guy can't take 3 seasons to debut if he's a candidate to be an ace. I wouldn't even close the door on him debuting out of the pen at the end of 2023. They got Lee to AA in half a season so getting Prielipp there, or beyond, during a full season should be more than doable. He'll be on an innings limit, but that shouldn't stop him from advancing if he's shredding the low minors like he should. Prielipp making it to AAA or the majors in 2023 is the Twins best chance to develop an Ace anytime soon.

I agree that everyone should always be available for the right price. Including Jorge. I just think you're playing a real risky game if the plan is multiple trades and multiple signings to fill the C, SS, SP, and BP holes. Trading someone like Jorge shouldn't happen until the end of the offseason when you see where the holes are that you couldn't fill for just $ without losing major leaguers. The more moves, and especially trades, you make the higher you run the risk of being caught with a gaping hole somewhere when 1 move doesn't end up happening. Or 2 moves. Or 3. And then you're really screwed. It's all well and good to say "I'd trade Jorge and Lee for pitching, Kepler for a 2B, Gray for a SS, sign a SP, and move prospects for BP pieces" but when the Jorge and Lee move falls through after you traded Gray for a SS your rotation is even worse and you missed on signing the big FA arms while you were working on the Jorge deal so now you're back to scrap heaps and praying for prospects to pan out. Or you can't find a 2B or SS trade and won't pay for the stars so after you've traded Jorge and Lee you've got 2 gigantic defensive holes in the middle of your infield with limited shifting abilities to make up for it. It's possible to make multiple moves and move the holes in your roster from 1 position to another while banking on filling that new hole in a new move, but it just increases the likelihood that you miss on a deal and are left standing with no way to fix the holes. They could go: Jorge and Lewis for Lopez and Rojas (basing this on the multiple reports of Marlins demanding Torres and Peraza at the deadline for Lopez and Rojas) Gray for a 2B Sign Narvaez at C Sign a Gray level, or better, pitcher to cover that hole Sign a SS better than 34 year old, can't hit at all Rojas to cover that hole (or live with him til Lewis is ready?) Combination of FA signings and Kepler trade for BP arms But to me the easier option is to keep Jorge and Lewis and sign Rodon. Now you don't have to trade Gray and your rotation is improved and set. You can sign Iglesias to do the same thing Rojas would at SS til Lewis is ready, or, and I'd prefer, sign Correa or Turner. Either way SS is filled to the same degree as the "trade Jorge for pitching" scenario, but you still have Jorge at 2B. Since that scenario included signing a C that remains the same. And fixing the BP can still be sign FA and trade Kepler. I just don't see the reason to trade Jorge, or one of their few top prospects, when they have so much money to spend and could fill their holes without losing any of the above average players they have. I just don't think the Twins have anywhere close to a surplus of talented major leaguers so moving any of them means moving top prospects as well if you're going to actually upgrade the ML roster and the Twins don't have extra top prospects to move. I don't see this org as well setup to make more trades after what they did at the deadline. And they have money to spend. Fill the holes that way so the talent level is doing nothing but going up. As for the 40 man, my stance is that they have plenty of low end guys they could DFA without concern in order to bring in better major leaguers. I see an easy path to 6 open spots right now to protect rule 5 guys. Then there's plenty of guys that I'd move on from if/when I could get a better player in their spot.

I mean we can make some pretty educated guesses. I feel quite confident in saying the Marlins are not trading 2 of their pitchers in 1 deal. It's generally a bad idea as it doesn't maximize your return. Especially when it's a deal that doesn't even include a single elite talent in return. And why would they want a lesser pitcher who ended the year on the IL with shoulder problems, and has less team control, in return? That deal hurts their rotation without improving their offense (they have Larnach lite already, his name is JJ Bleday) so I'm very confident they wouldn't accept that deal. And I'm not sure why we'd trade Arraez and Gray for Jansen. Real bad idea to pay full price for a part time catcher coming off a career season. Especially if you're going to turn around and trade Jeffers. You're in the same spot of needing a 2nd catcher who's good enough to start at least half the games next year. The team has $60M we should be expecting them to spend in free agency this offseason. There's no need to trade major leaguers when that's the case. Go out and sign the help you need to fill holes instead of trying to fill 1 hole while creating another.

1. Defensive metrics are trash. 2. If you've decided Arraez's 2nd half stats mean he's on his way to being an empty .280 hitter soon I'm pretty sure major league teams have figured that out as well and he's got 0 trade value already. What realistic trade do you think they can get for either of them that improves the 2023 MN Twins as a whole? They're both top 4 hitters in the lineup, do you think a team is trading a different top 4 bat for one of them? You'd need a perfect situation to find a team that has a 2B hole that they think can be filled by one of those guys and they also have a top 4 bat at C, SS, or RH cOF that they'd be willing to ship out for one of those 2. I can't think of any team with multiple top 4 bats at either C or SS so can't fill either of those holes by trading one of those 2, and a RH cOF is super easy to fill without having to trade away one of your top 4 hitters. Nobody is trading frontline starting pitching for either of those guys. Not even in a package, because no team thinks they have so much frontline starting pitching that they can compete in 2023 even after trading some away for a 2B and some prospects. You could get some prospect arms back for a package built around one of these guys, but the Twins don't need that, they need current MLB players that can improve their major league team. So the only option left is trading them for bullpen help. I personally wouldn't trade either of them for a bullpen piece, but you may feel different on that, which is completely fine.

I'm making the statement on my own. I don't think he's even remotely good enough defensively to be an everyday 2B (especially without the shift), and I think if his knees couldn't hold up for the entire season playing 72% of his games at 1B and DH this season they really couldn't hold up for an entire season if he was an everyday 2B. And the Twins wouldn't move Polanco back to SS because they didn't want his ankles dealing with the extra stress there so I'm not sure why we'd think they'd move Arraez off 1B to 2B with the shift disappearing where his knees would be under significantly greater stress. My belief is that Arraez vs Polanco is not an apples to apples comparison. Polanco is an everyday 2B, Arraez is not. They're not a 1 for 1 proposition.

Arraez is no longer a 2B. That's my problem with all of this "trade Polanco" talk. The Twins don't currently have a logjam at 2B. They have 1 major league quality 2B in the org right now and his name is Jorge Polanco. Arraez can't play a full season there, especially without the shift where his lack of range would be killer. Arraez is a DH/1B/3B in that order. I don't see him as part of this conversation at all, and I'd bet the team doesn't either. As for the prospects, that's all they are. Julien and Martin are fun to think about right now cuz they're tearing up the AFL, but Julien is not a good defender, and Martin has to hit for more than 3 weeks before he's any part of the major league equation. I don't see any player anywhere in the org that is at all capable of being the opening day 2B outside of Polanco. Why would we trade one of the few above average players we have left on the roster? Nobody is pushing Jorge out right now. Trading him would be a self inflicted wound that I think is completely unnecessary. They can spend to fill every hole they have. Why create a hole at 2B to attempt to fill a hole that can be filled simply by spending?

deGrom on a low years, high AAV deal is intriguing. He's the best pitcher on the planet when healthy. I wouldn't be super excited to add another high injury risk to the roster, but at least this one has "best in baseball" upside. Otherwise, it's Rodon or Bassitt. I'd be happy with either one, even if Rodon has injury risk and Bassitt isn't quite a true #1 in my eyes.

I think Miranda and Arraez make a perfectly fine 1B, and AK is better there than the OF, so I wouldn't be looking to make any sort of splash at 1B. So I'm just seeing catcher, SS, and BP guys (I'd also like a Rodon type signing, but not holding my breath). That's 4 guys. And I think they have easily 4 spots on the 40 they can clear. I don't create a hole at 2B (and that's what I think would happen if you trade Polo) to fill another hole. I just don't see trading Jorge being a ticket to upgrading the team overall so I wouldn't want to trade one of their few established above average players.

I think the difference is that the top 3B prospect in the org (Miranda) has already graduated and is on the major league team. He's not established as he'll need to show he can make adjustments in his 2nd season, but he's shown he can hit major league pitching. You're not clearing a spot for an unknown by moving on from Urshela (and for the record I wouldn't move on from him). Moving on from Polanco would be to clear a spot for an unknown or Arraez who's knees pretty clearly can't handle a full season at 2B and is a fielder who will struggle mightily at 2B without the shift. I don't believe in the "logjam" theory others do. You don't have a logjam until you have too many proven, healthy major leaguers for all 26 spots. The Twins don't have more than 26 proven, healthy major leaguers, in my opinion.

If they trade Polanco they should trade every veteran and start over. I don't see how you improve the team by trading him. Seattle is not giving up Hancock for Polanco. Nobody is giving up a pitcher better than Gray for Polanco. The only hope for a better team without Polanco than with Polanco is if you're trading him to clear money to sign Correa, Turner, and Rodon. There are no prospects that deserve space on the MLB team be cleared for them. There's some solid guys that should get chances throughout 2023, but none have proven they can help the Twins win and deserve a spot out of ST for a winning club. If they're trying to win they need to keep Jorge Polanco. If they're starting over they need to trade Kepler, Mahle, Gray, Maeda, Gio, Lopez, and any other veteran I'm forgetting (Buxton has a no trade clause) and start over. Don't rearrange the deck chairs. Either sink the titanic and start over or go in and reinforce the hull so it can handle more iceberg damage and keep on truckin.

Totally agree, I just really want them to finally be aggressive. Hopefully they feel their jobs are on the line and that sparks some boldness.

Archer and the team were pretty open about him not being a relief option because of how much work went into getting him ready to pitch each time. I don't disagree that they seem to give some guys extra chances for contract, or trade, costs, but Archer doesn't seem to be one as his situation was more about just physically not being able to get loose on notice in order to relieve.

This would be the worst possible direction they could go, in my opinion. Either blow it up or go big. Returning with darn near the same team next year would be a disaster in my eyes. If you're going young, go young. If you're trying to really compete in 2023 then you need to add some veterans significantly better than Iglesias, Leon, and Boxberger. This team just wastes a season of service time for the young guys while not actually competing. Time to S or get off the pot and pick a direction. If they're not significantly upgrading the roster don't stop with Gio and Kepler in trades. Send Mahle and Gray back out. Move Polanco. See what you can get for Maeda, Lopez, and Thielbar. Blow it up and start over or actually invest in going for it.

Based on this list alone (so no Rodon option) it's Kodai Senga or wait out the Walker, Manaea, Eflin, Taillon types to see if you can get one of them for a 1 or 2 year deal. If not it's no big loss and move on with what they have in the rotation while spending a ton on position players and the pen.

I'm not suggesting rushing him, but am suggesting not holding him back. It's the orgs job to know when someone is ready. The Braves continue to call guys up who are dominating AA and never even play in AAA and those guys are excelling. If Julien is ready at some point in 2023 and there's an opening there's no reason not to call him up. He'll be on the 40 man already. He should definitely start in AAA, but once they get beyond the first 2 weeks of the season there's not even service time concerns when I comes to calling him up. If he's ready and he can help the Twins win games call him up. That's all I'm saying. Don't force him up before he's ready, but don't make him stay in AAA just to keep him in AAA. And, while 24 may not be old, Julien would definitely prefer to get his service clock ticking ASAP. Holding him in AAA all year "just because" would literally cost him millions when it pushes his free agency opportunity into his age 30+ seasons.

The premise wasn't that they need a "veteran superstar shortstop to win a title." The premise was "the revolving door part." The premise was that they need some consistency. I mean Christian Guzman was used as the example and it was acknowledged that he wasn't a good player, let alone a superstar. The suggestion of Correa is based on him being the best option to provide stability at the position. The premise was about having a SS start multiple seasons in a row. Not re-signing Correa means that revolving door of a new player at one of the 4 most vital positions on the field will continue for another year.

This can't be real. Arraez and Vlad Jr? What are we doing here baseball world?

The Twins plan for pitching is clearly to develop it in house. Signing Correa doesn't change the plan on pitching at all. They've needed pitching the last 2 offseasons and didn't sign it then so why would we think they'd go out and sign it moving forward? I'd actually argue signing Correa and Rodon this offseason and then an Aaron Nola type next year with the money from Mahle, Gray, Maeda, and Kepler gone would be ideal. 2 studs to front the rotation with Ryan, Ober, Winder, SWR, Varland, et al filling in the other 3 slots. Superstar at SS and superstar in CF for half the season would be the best situation this team has ever been in. Their refusal to sign any long-term deals before now, and Buxton being so cheap, sets them up perfectly to splurge on Correa and 2 stud arms over the next couple seasons.

It's all well and good to trade Polanco or whoever you want to fill in the holes. But the question is how many holes do you think they have? To me it's SS, a #1 SP, lefty reliever, closer/backend shutdown RP, and a partner at C for Jeffers. That's 5 players. My point is that you can sign Correa, Turner, or Swanson and still fill those other 4 spots, including a #1 starting pitcher. They have 60+ million they should be able to spend this offseason. Plus, if they're doing what you want and trading from a deeper position it's even easier to fill the other spots. Trade Kepler and clear his money and you have even more to spend. Signing Rodon and Correa is affordable and is even smarter if you're trading away someone like Polanco to fill the LHRP, backend RP, or C roles. My point is that signing Correa, or Swanson for less, or Turner for probably about the same isn't stopping the Twins from doing the other things they need to do so why would they not sign a superstar when they can actually afford to? Especially with all the money they have coming off their books in the next couple years.

The Lewis injury really messed things up here. If he'd remained healthy and produced for the rest of the season at the plate this discussion would be over and he'd be the guy moving forward at SS. But that's not what happened, and no matter how good any of us think he'll be (and I think he'll be a star) you can't go into 2023 and beyond banking on him returning as the player he was during the start of 2022. Martin isn't a SS. Nobody thinks he can defend there. The Twins need to quit wasting time on this nonsense and move him to 2B or the OF (I prefer the OF). Although, them continuing to force him into SS action makes me think maybe they're planning on jumping him to the majors early next year as part of the "just survive until Lewis is ready" plan. I hope that's not their thought. Lee is a bit of a wild card. From all reports his glove work is A+, but he doesn't have the range to play SS. If this is the case he's far more suited to 3B now that the shift is going away and the middle infield is getting back to needing much more range. I haven't seen him play SS enough to really have an opinion on his range, but the Twins need to be honest with themselves on what they have in Lee. Is he really a SS and how quickly will he be major league ready? There's nobody else in the entire organization that looks remotely capable of handling SS for the Minnesota Twins to start 2023 or at any point in the near future. Polanco isn't shifting back over, and Gordon isn't any more than a single game fill in option there. They need a SS. They have money to spend. Go get a star and worry about where Lewis, Martin, and Lee play when they're all ready. Too many SS is a good problem to have. The Twins aren't likely to actually run into that situation unless they sign one of the big 3 FA SS (I don't count Bogaerts as a SS as he's been terrible there defensively his whole career and is 30 years old now, he's a 3B) and Lewis returns as a star. But having 2 major league SS is a good problem to have. Especially when one is as athletic as Lewis and can play anywhere but catcher. Go get a star with your 60 million in payroll space and quit messing around!

That's a reason to start him in AAA for sure, but not a reason to have him down there all year which is how some of the previous comments read. One suggests him not getting serious consideration until spring training 2024 after all of 2023 at AAA. I don't consider Julien a great OF candidate. He's not fast. I know, I know he steals bases, but that doesn't make him fast. I don't think I've seen even a single scouting report have him at even a 50 grade (average) for speed. They're all 40/45 grades. He's a good base runner (Twins need more of those!), but he's not fast. He's another IFer who probably can't field super well there (all the more reason to put Martin in the OF!). He's an Arraez type player defensively, with less arm strength. But that bat has a chance to be real, and you can never have too many bats!