chpettit19

At this point they've already given away their advantage this year as they were too slow to react. As long as they maintain the division lead there's no real reason to push Jeffers past a 60/40 split. But they haven't even gotten to a 60/40 split with him yet so I'm still waiting for even that adjustment. If they don't ever get to it this year I'm not sure why we'd expect them to even go 60/40 next year, but I'll wait and see before passing judgement on his usage next year. If the division race gets tight I'd hope to see him get the vast majority of games down the final stretch. In the playoffs he should catch every game. I will believe both of those things when I see them, though. I just don't like that they don't take advantage of great years from guys while suffering through terrible ones from other guys. Too much reliance on what they thought/expected/hoped would happen, and not enough adjusting to what's actually happening. They call it patience, I call it passivity. We're in mid-August and the 2nd best hitting catcher in baseball can't get better than a 50/50 split behind the plate when the other catcher is one of the worst hitting catchers in baseball and you're struggling to stay above .500 and are in a fight for your division title? That's unacceptable to me. I agree with your assessment of the Vazquez situation, though. I highly doubt they go into next year without Jeffers and Vazquez as their 2 catchers (barring some injury). But 2025 is definitely up for grabs. And I'd hope the 2nd half of 2024 is in question if Vazquez hits like he is this year.

Yadier Molina between 2009 and 2017 caught 130+ games every year but 1. And was the best catcher in baseball. He caught 118 games at the age of 38, but Jeffers can't catch 120 at the age of 26? Salvador Perez has caught 120+ games 5 times. Buster Posey won the MVP in 2012 catching 111 games. OPS+ of 134 in 2013 catching 119 games. OPS+ of 115 in 2016 catching 122 games. Sean Murphy joined JT Realmuto as the 2 best hitting catchers last year and caught 116. 2021: Salvador Perez at 120 games caught had a wRC+ of 130. Will Smith 111 games wRC+ 133. In his age 34 season Buster Posey was able to catch 102 games while maintaining a 140 OPS+. But 26 year old Jeffers can't maintain his numbers past 100 games caught, and it makes sense that the Twins are going to catch him 75-80 games this year? Sorry my lack of a life has made it so difficult for you to prove your point, but there's more than 2 guys, none of which I had to go back 2 decades for. The 5 best hitting catchers of the last 2 years all caught well over 100 games, or were in their last professional season, and didn't collapse. There are 7 teams in baseball who have a team catcher OPS over .750. Jeffers has an OPS of .862. There is 1 team in baseball (Atlanta) who has a catcher OPS better than that. There are 26 teams in baseball who have a team catcher OPS over .600. Vazquez has an OPS of .579. There 2 teams in baseball (Detroit and Oakland) with a catcher OPS worse than that. You're going from Detroit's catchers to Atlanta's when you play Jeffers over Vazquez. Yes, I think it's pretty clear they have an advantage over all but 1 team in baseball when they play Jeffers, but they're choosing not to. Sorry if I question that decision. The Twins have the best hitting catcher in the AL, and 2nd best in baseball, this year and they're going to catch him in less than half the games. I don't see why people feel that's a defensible decision. But here we are.

I'd be happy to look at any numbers you have that support that. JT Realmuto has been the best hitting catcher in the game for years. Caught 132 games last year. He's caught 125+ games in all but 2 of his full major league seasons. Joe Mauer won batting titles catching 120 and 137 games. And Jeffers isn't on pace to catch 100 games, he's on pace to catch 75.

I wasn't predicting anything, just stating that if he needs a reset at some point early in his MLB career it's not the end of the world.

Yadier Molina hit 20 HRs at the age of 35. If they're worried about Jeffers at the age of 36 that's a problem. They're catchers, I couldn't care less if they can run. If you're sacrificing playing time in a player's prime because you're worried about what they may be in their mid-30s you're making a massive mistake. 9-10 years after Jeffers debut puts him at age 33. If they're limiting his play at 26 because of what he may be at 33 they're making a massive mistake. Especially for a team that doesn't tend to extend a large portion of their roster. The chances that Jeffers is even in their org 9-10 years after he debuted is small. Always worrying about the future means you're never worried about today, and you're giving yourself a self-inflicted disadvantage. Don't dictate playing time in 2023 because you're worried about what a guy may be in 2030. What a terrible strategy.

Yeah, just going to have to agree to disagree. Yes, the season is a grind, and catchers have the most physically demanding position. But catchers have been catching 130+ games a year for a long time. Realmuto caught 132 games last year and didn't crumble. Yadier Molina caught 118 at the age of 38, but Jeffers can't do 130 cuz it'll just be too much for him? I agree they won't "vary the routine this season," and I'm saying that's a problem with the organization. They don't really like to vary anything in season, and it costs them games. This organization is obsessed with rest, scheduled days off, etc. and it hasn't helped. Buxton is a separate situation, but the rest of these guys should be able to play just as much as guys have historically. Training, diets, medical procedures, everything has gotten more advanced, but Twins players can't get a single player to play 150 games a year? Don't buy it. You seem to, though, so agree to disagree.

1B- Pujols 2B- Carew 3B- Cabrera SS- Rodriguez

Williams had a pretty rough July, but I'd certainly give him a shot over Gallo. Then again, I'd give you or me a shot over Gallo at this point. And, FYI, Farmer is their emergency backup catcher right now. He has caught games in the majors before as he came up as a catcher before moving to an IF spot. So that role isn't that big of a hole to fill. And Williams is not very good behind the plate, but if they move on from Farmer in the offseason it is a nice role for Williams to be able to fill.

It was pretty publicly reported that Vazquez would only sign here if they promised him he was the main catcher and he'd get at least 60% of the games. It's why Jeffers is still at only 46% of games caught this year even though they've moved to a 50/50 split. They're deferring to the veteran even though he's being outplayed significantly by the younger player. Like the rest of the roster. I think every team wants a C to play more than 100 games, but few have one that should. Not playing Jeffers more is them choosing to give up an advantage they have on almost every team they play. I don't get it.

No, I don't think catching an extra game or 2 a week is going to have some drastic effect on how he feels. And if it does then he's simply not that valuable of a player. What do I know about the demands of catching in the major leagues? I know players have been catching nearly twice as many games as Jeffers is on pace to catch for a very long time, and the really good ones are doing it right now. "He'll get tired" is a weak excuse when you're talking about an extra game this week, and 2 extra next week. Why would we think he's going to catch 3-4 games in a row in October when he hasn't done it all season? You're arguing he can't catch an extra game or 2 a week now because it'll tank his performance, but he's suddenly going to be catching 4 games in a row with no ill effect? That doesn't track. You can't say he can't catch an extra game a week without falling apart and then suggest he can catch 4 games in a row in the playoffs with no problem. Again, if catching an extra game or 2 a week tanks his offense then he isn't really that valuable of a player. Why would we think they're going to give him 65% of the games caught next year when they aren't willing to do it in mid-August in the middle of a division title chase? You don't think he trained for this season to be able to handle 105 games as a catcher? You think he magically stumbled into his current performance while not preparing like "he's the guy?" Man, I can't wait to see him OPS+ 200 next year when he actually thinks he's the guy! Yes, the mental side of the game is super important as well. If Vazquez goes down tomorrow do they need to give Jeffers 2 more weeks to start discussing his increased role for the rest of the season while he splits time 50/50 with a AAA catcher? Or is his performance just going to fall apart because he's going to be so unprepared for a larger role his body won't know what to do? Ryan Jeffers doesn't need 2 more weeks to start discussing an increased role 4 weeks after the discussion. If Jeffers can't stay composed because he has to catch an extra game or 2 a week he isn't the player we hope he is. If an extra game a week crumples him I can't imagine what the weight of a playoff game is going to do to him.

He's a professional athlete who's been catching his whole life. Come on. His performance isn't going to tank because he goes from catching 3 games a week to 4-5 games a week. That's nonsense. These aren't little kids. He's a 26 year old man who's worked his tail off to be in very good physical shape. He can play 4 days a week without crumbling. Why do we think he'll catch 110-115 games next year?

Are we really counting pinch hit appearances as him catching a game? Come on. He's caught 56 games. They haven't given him even 60% of the starts behind the plate yet, but they're going to give him 75% the rest of the way? He's not catching 90 games this year. The catchers hitting like Jeffers are not catching 46% of their team's games (what Jeffers has caught so far this year). That isn't fact. That is trying to explain away what the Twins are doing. The catchers who hit like Jeffers are catching significantly more games than Jeffers is. So don't catch Jeffers more because Mauer got concussions? I mean I'm quite positive I can come up with way more great hitting catchers who didn't get hurt than you can come up with more Mauer examples. Who cares if he's healthy if he's sitting on the bench? Avoiding an acute injury by not playing somebody is not a good strategy in professional sports.

I'd argue having 1 who can do that is all the more valuable then. It's what makes JT Realmuto so valuable. You have a huge advantage if you can plug a 130 OPS+ catcher into your lineup for 130 games a year like Realmuto did last year. Jeffers is at a 137 OPS+ this year, but that advantage is muted if you're only willing to start him 50% of the time. There's so few catchers playing that much because most catchers a the same poor performers at the plate so you may as well limit wear and tear. But if you're actively choosing to only play one who's significantly better than the rest in the league 50% of the time you're choosing to give up an advantage. Jeffers has caught 56 games this year. He's not on pace to catch 90-100, he's on pace to play in 90-100. He's on pace to catch 75 games this year. Now the early season playing time made sense after his down year last year. But not shifting the catching share quicker, or giving him 60+% of the games recently, is a missed opportunity in my opinion.

I don't think it can die, but maybe it can be changed. There needs to be some floor for PAs to qualify or it kind of ruins it, I think. As for Seager, he's on fire. Many of these big contract SS the last couple years had, or are having, brutal first years. The ones who aren't currently in their first year are mostly having really nice years. So I hope that's a good sign for Correa.

I'll start by saying I'm not a fan of all the "Jeffers needs every other day off" talk in the comments. He's not even on pace for 100 games played this year. I know catching is a whole lot of work, and I'm not saying he needs to catch 150 games a year, but if he can't play 100 games a year and maintain close to similar production he's not a hugely useful piece. I don't buy this "he needs the rest" talk for a minute. He's played 71 games this year. He has to be able to play well more than that and maintain his performance if we're going to credit him with being a core piece of this team. As for playing him at first, though, I don't see the point. Catch him more. Putting him at first doesn't solve anything. Just puts Vazquez's bat in the lineup everyday. Solano at 1B everyday is a much better option than putting Jeffers there. Jeffers can DH a bunch if they're going to insist on this every other day catcher thing going forward instead of just giving Jeffers more starts behind the plate.

For sure, many guys need to get a reset, and it's ok if Julien does, too. But that's very different than not calling them up in the first place.

I wouldn't bench him against lefties either. I wouldn't bench any young hitter against same handed pitchers because they can't learn to hit them if they aren't facing them. But my read on your comments was that you wouldn't call him up until his right handed swing was ready as well. "There is no sense promoting him if any lefty reliever is going to be able to get him out." is an interesting sentence to me. That's why I brought up Julien. "Any lefty reliever" is able to get him out so I'm curious if you think he should still be in AAA. Developing and maintaining 2 swings is definitely an added factor, but the core of the statement is simply that lefties could get him out so don't call him up. And I don't agree that it automatically requires more development time if you're a switch hitter. He's taking BP and working on both swings everyday. He's getting fewer in game ABs against lefties, but that's true of every hitter. The time frame can most certainly be the same as a non-switch hitter. Aaron Hicks isn't even a very good example of this since his right handed swing, the one he used far less in games, was the one that he was good at early. It was his ABs against righties that needed work. So game reps weren't the problem. I mean if we're just pulling 1 player examples I can easily throw out Chipper Jones as someone who debuted at 21, and was 2nd in ROY voting at 23 (they had no season in his age 22 year) as a switch hitter with no platoon split problems. Mark Teixeira debuted at 23 and had some platoon splits, but his "bad side" (hitting lefty) was still a .757 OPS that year. He was drafted out of college in 2001 and debuted in 2003. Much like what we're talking about for Lee.

Well now I have to take back my complaints like an adult. I hate being an adult.

Batters face about 25% lefties in the bigs. How long are you willing to hold him in AAA if his bat against righties is ready? Would you make this argument for Julien? His minor league numbers also show he isn't ready to hit major league lefties. Does being a switch hitter change the math there? It's all a fine line, but if his left handed swing (the one he'll use 75% of the time) is ready for opening day next year how long would you keep him in AAA waiting on the right handed swing to be ready? All year? Half the year?

I saw him in St Paul a couple times this last weekend, and his glove work is quite good. He has the arm and glove to play SS, but his range will be the question. 3B sounds like the natural next move for him, and he should be great there. He's smooth and has really good hands. I wouldn't even think about moving him to 1B. He'll have a few hiccups, and he's not Correa, but I'd take his glove over Lewis' right now.

I'd start Solano over Gallo 10/10 times, but to each their own. If Julien has issues with something this guy throws he's not anywhere near the hitter we hope he is. And if he's ever going to figure out whatever that possible struggle is he needs to play. Not sit behind a guy striking out at historic rates. You may be able to find "several dozen" hitters in the division you'd take Gallo over, but I can't. But, again, to each their own.

I thought they were starting a lefty tomorrow and then I was going to be even more upset since he wouldn't have started then so I get the confusion on random Detroit pitchers!

FYI Faedo is a righty so the lefty stuff doesn't really come into play. I wouldn't have questioned it if it were a lefty on the mound. With that being said, I also don't care about the last 2 weeks. Actually, him struggling is all the more reason to put him in there. This is how young players develop. He's struggling and needs to adjust to get out of that struggle. Not playing him makes that much harder. And Gallo has had a much worse line than that (minus the slugging) for 3 months so the "he's struggling" argument (which I assume is their thought process as well) doesn't fly with me. Yes, Gallo is a better 1B than Solano, but he's not a good enough hitter to trump anyone who can be serviceable at 1B. I don't think Polanco would step in and be a gold glover at 1B, but if you can play SS in the majors (even if you're not great cuz you don't have the arm for it) you can play 1B. I don't think Julien can play 1B, but Polanco can.

Might as well get it started: Gallo playing and Julien not?! I am legitimately annoyed by that. Solano still feeling it enough that he can't play 1B? Polanco can't shift over to 1B? How is there no way for this team to get the worst hitter in baseball out of the lineup?

Right now it's Lopez, Gray, and Maeda as your top 3 playoff arms so I'm not sure why we'd be looking to move one of them to the pen. That can certainly change in the coming weeks, but none of those 3 guys are currently in play for pen roles. And until they have the division locked up Ryan and Ober aren't going to the pen either. 1 of them, as of now, likely gets a pen role come October, though. I'd guess Ober, but it'll likely come down to who's pitching best at the end of September. Can we stop with this Keuchel nonsense? He wasn't dominant in AAA. He was far more lucky than good in his first start. He was completely brutal in his second start. He's been brutal for the previous 2 years as well. Why would we want a guy who's WHIP in his "good" start was 2.0, and who hasn't struck out a major league hitter this year in the pen? What purpose would that serve? Keuchel is a horrid pen option. Varland I think is a likely late season, and possibly postseason, pen arm. I think they'll turn to him and see if he can hit 100+ if he's only throwing an inning at a time. Before then I'd hope he replaces Keuchel in the rotation for anymore starts needed there, but I'm not holding my breath that they actually make that move. But I'd take Varland's stuff in short stints over a number of guys in the pen right now. If Paddack returns this year it'll be out of the pen, and I actually hope that happens in September so he can start knocking the TJ rust off now. Even just a handful of innings in September would be useful as he gets into the offseason to work on getting that command back to game form. I wouldn't expect him to see any important innings, but even just a rehab assignment to get him in games this year would be useful, I think.