TNtwins85

This path would make even more sense in a salary cap environment. It would be hamstrung by a salary floor environment. I agree with you and have said on here just as you have that the best sustainable model for any team is through development. The most valuable commodity in baseball since the beginning of professional baseball in the late 1860’d has and always will be young inexpensive talent. Anything else you hear from the league as far as a salary cap( the owners) or a salary floor (mlbpa) disincentives the game and the fans. Period!

Omg!!!! Love this article I vote this article of the year on Twins Daily. It hits a point that should talked about more! I have said this from time to time over the last year which what has been going on. Brilliant article! Thank you!

If that’s the deal you trade Lopez for sure!

That’s great! I’m really proud of you! This was never intended to be an argument with you. Someone else (in this article and other people in several other articles) cannot fathom how the “Twins”(the baseball team itself that most average people see them as) and the “Pohlads” (as in the Pohlads they know as the owners of the Twins and not the owners of several other large businesses) can “lose” $500M. I was simply explaining that it doesn’t make any sense that the “Twins” lost money but through business dealings can shift a debt burden onto another business that is more easily funded and can find more investors. That’s all I was saying in that the “Minnesota Twins” in no way could lose $500M in 3 years. That’s what the stories were. Not what I claimed. It makes it confusing to normal people and most people don’t understand how that all works. It would explain how a normal person gets so upset when billionaires don’t pay taxes. Although that doesn’t seem fair it can be summed up in a quote. “Don’t hate the player, hate the game.” Ice-T

Go look at corporate America today a show me someone who tells the truth and does the right thing. I recently watched Ken Butns “Baseball” recently. I believe it was the 1870’s when players began getting paid as professionals and owners started acting as owners and implemented the reserve clause. Ever since then this has been big business and players, fans and owners all battling each other.

The $400M-$500M was the reported storyline all summer. From the moment Ishbia pulled out of the running all the way up to the Pohlad interview a month or so ago that was what was reported and what they claimed. Do a google search on it. There will be numerous stories as that was the talking point from Ishbia on. I don’t know where you were but that’s been the hot button issue since say last March or so. The $500M number is not my number. It’s the reported number.

Right, I was emphasizing a point but from the research I did the Marlins still turned a profit of somewhere between $17M-$23M. The point of the discussion was that the Twins are somewhere in the middle of revenue. If that’s the case there is no way that after signing 3 guys for $65M as early as 3-4 years ago that in that time they managed to accrue $500M in debt as the person that posted that claimed. Even if you lost $30M in revenue that doesn’t take you to half a billion in 3 years without money from other businesses being pushed over to the Twins as a franchise. Especially when you know there’s plenty of buyers who would love that steady, easy ever growing revenue stream. Pohlad Companies simply pushed their debt into their most lucrative asset and got not just 1 but 2 supposed buyers. A smart and necessary business move yes. A really crummy situation for fans? Absolutely! But in no way was this the “Twins” debt.

But that’s what the line was. Anywhere from $400M-$500M. You don’t lose that much money by paying the 3 top guys $65M per year. Something happened and they decided to put all of their debt into the Twins because they knew they could get investors to jump on board and pay that down. Will it be able to happen again? No. Not with new limited partners. I don’t plan on them spending $150M the next couple of years but they have time before this next wave gets expensive. I was simply making the point that this is not the Minnesota Twins debt. It’s the Pohlad Companies debt. The Twins don’t lose money. There’s no way. At least not enough to rack up half a billion dollars worth in 3 years. The math doesn’t add up any way you look at it.

The dodgers had a terrible BP. All the stars and they relied on a few failed starters and a rookie. As I said above you need competence not excellence.

Yes! The Bluejays got to within a couple of outs with Jeff Hoffman as the closer. He gave up more HR’s than any other closer. You need competence not excellence. There’s no better example than the Twins bullpen of the last 3 years.

Depends on your definition of “hopeful”

Yeah, but it’s impossible the Twins as a franchise lost so much money year over year to be $500M in the hole. The Twins out of all their assets and businesses is simply the one that didn’t lose money and allowed them to shift the debt burden on to. There’s no way they were willing to sign Correa if the Twins as a franchise were losing money. It’s all they’re other poor investments and businesses that lost money not the Twins. If you were the Pohlads in the economy of the last 5 years where do you think you could get investors to invest? A commercial real estate market that is likely to collapse any year now or an MLB franchise that grows no matter what year over year and there’s only 30 of them? If I had $250M to invest I’d take the sure thing. Idk about you. The debt isn’t a Twins franchise problem it’s a Pohlad business problem. It’s impossible the Twins franchise lost half a billion dollars. They weren’t the Marlins the last 5 years.

It had better be by 2027 and 2028 at the latest. If not then Falvey failed this attempt and has or will be fired. If it takes till 2030 to see anything you just wasted this crop of prospects. Your star building block in Walker Jenkins will be 26 and a year away from FA if you didn’t sign him. Culpepper will be pushing 30 along with Houston, ERod, Rojas, Abel, Prielipp. Luke Keaschall will be entering his FA season. 2030 will be when they try to cash all these guys in for new prospects and probably blowing the whole thing up again. It’s 2028 or bust.

But what makes you more money? Reducing payroll or being a continual competitor in the postseason? Why do you always hear the phrase “We want to create a year to year contender”? Because a year to year contender makes you way more money, although not guaranteed, than simply collecting a revenue sharing check. Each year you might get $60M as a revenue receiver. But if you create a continual contender and you bring in not only that but all the merchandise and gate revenue it only makes sense to be a contender rather than a bottom dweller. From a mid market to small market perspective.

Exactly! They have always chosen a fall apart. A full on rebuild gets you back in 3-4,5 years. They always choose the fall apart that takes 5-6,7 years and a team that’s 1-2 pieces away. 1-2 high end prospects you would have got by trading away 1-2 stars for 6 prospects. This is either a fall apart slowly or a restock. But with the prospects they’ve got already Falvey is looking to semi compete this year and be back by ‘27. His job depends on that. Especially with new minority owners wanting to see the ROI.

I would agree with you in some cases but history often tells you more than logic itself. Name one time in Pohlad ownership history where they completely gutted a team over the course of a year in a Astros, Baltimore, Cubs style full rebuild. That’s not what they do even though that makes logical sense in order to build a strong core. Would it make logical sense to trade pieces at the deadline to acquire higher upside lower minors players if going into a full rebuild or to target higher minors higher floor and lower ceiling guys? The writing is on the wall and I his is not a full scale rebuild. As long as Falvey is in the chair that doesn’t happen. This is his chance to try and turn it around and if he doesn’t that’s when he gets fired and full rebuild mode happens. Logic tells one thing and history and motive says another. Also, if not Derek Shelton than who?

This is pure speculation. Everyone is just assuming. In the same article Falvey was quoted as hoping to be able to add to the team. So in that are we going to assume that they’re going to sign Kyle Tucker? Maybe Bo Bichette? While we’re at it let’s trade for Ohtani too! I mean, if we’re speculating why don’t we go both ways? Why does it always have to be negative?

Every team drafts 5 shortstops, 5 center fielders and a million starting pitchers every year. Makes you wonder how all the other positions are filled……..lol!

Exactly! If this front office starts making Terry Ryan moves why not just bring Terry Ryan back out of retirement. At least we know what we’re in for then instead of playing this guessing game all winter.

When the front office clearly signaled that this is not a rebuild and simply a retool by going out and targeting higher minors players as opposed to higher ceiling low minors players why would you suggest two 18 year old low minors guys? You may not agree with the trades or the direction but the FO has shown you what direction it’s headed. Therefore any proposal that doesn’t start with Eldridge is a phone hang up right away. Next call please.

Everyone can name the big guys. Can you name the other guys who contributed? He had good players of course. They won the division how many times? You don’t do that without good players but you need other guys to compete to the best of their abilities as well right? So who would you have wanted instead of Gardy? Who would you have wanted other than Baldelli? Who did you want other than Shelton? Would your guy have brought them further in the playoffs than these guys? Doubt it. As far as a culture guy and a guy who pushed his teams to the most their ability could give I don’t believe you can name any other Twins manager other than Gardy and TK. For all the bellyaching about Baldelli and crying about how baseball isn’t fair because of the Yankees and dodgers and …. And …. Y’all can’t even get on the same page for anything. Can’t even acknowledge that the Twins have had good managers. Y’all living in a video game and not in reality.

From what I understand yes. It will be official at the owners meetings if they are approved which I imagine they will be.

The Quarterly owners meetings are Nov. 18-20. I imagine we’ll find out more then. Until then I think it’s all in waiting to be approved. Even then it will probably be some vague information and we may not ever know the percentages.

@Alex Boxwellgreat article! Totally agree! Although I didn’t play as high of levels as you I would echo your talking points. Even in high level D2 baseball 20 years ago the Head coach is not working individually with players. Also, coaches were not working individually with players all that much but more group work and philosophy. For instance developing change ups at that level. We would get instruction as a pitching group and we would be expected to work on it individually. Mechanics were just starting to be implemented and we would have a video day where we were shown different mechanics and how to utilize them and what key positions and movements were. Never was there a coach personally instructing on where and how to move but we needed to find what worked individually to unlock our best movements in a throwing program. The point is even at that level 20 years ago a head coach or manager was merely doing just that. Managing the overall structure of a 35 player roster and the talking head pulling the strings of a game in the dugout. That was D2 20 years ago so I can imagine what a ML organization is like. I would guess that’s why players get payed so much more. Why? Because they are in control of their careers. Yet people seem to think managers and coaches are so much more involved than they really are for some reason. Derek Shelton will be as good as the roster he’s given and how he influences that roster.

Unless you were in the room or you personally know from ownership and Falvey this doesn’t signal anything. Why? Because you just like the rest of us don’t know. This is pure speculation just like everything else. Will they spend their way to competitiveness? No. Will they unload everyone and have a bottom line payroll? Probably not. It will be some middle of the road “stay competitive” walk down the line to keep fan interest from cratering with a few moves to shake things up. Will they lose 100 games? Probably not. Will they win 90 games? Probably not. It will be another “milk toast” season where we see some young guys and some terrible and good play at times. Why? Cause they are the Twins.