TwinsDr2021

In Gray's last 9 starts he has give up 3 or more runs in 5 starts, the other 4 were 0 or 1. He has 4 starts less than 5 innings, 1 of 6 innings, 1 of 7 innings, and 3 of 5 innings. Not sure it is more than a coin flip how good Gray will be. I think as fans we want him to be better than he has been. He did have a run of 5 of 6 starts (5/18-6/27) that were good or better.

We are 114 games into 162 schedule, do we think the twins are really going to change anything? I will say it does seem like Rocco has tried to extend his starters a tiny bit and every time he does they give up a hit or run and he quickly pulls them. I would love to see Pagan start Archer's next game or somebody that can go two innings, let Archer go his 4 and see what happens.

There is no way to know how many Scherzer types are left because teams aren't training them to do that. I mean Sandy Alcantara can't be the only 26 year old pitcher in the world that can average over 7 innings, can he? The Twins will never know how much stamina their pitchers have or how good they truly can be, because they are only asking 5 innings from their starters in the minors, may goodness here on TD they talk about how great a game a minor league pitcher had even if he pitched 5 innings. I will say this though, back when I was in college (I pitched a little bit, real little bit) my coach said to us pitchers if you have to go to your third or fourth pitch to get people out in the first couple of innings, know you are going to be a relief pitcher. The best pitchers where able to get guys out early in the game with their best couple of pitches, so when they faced them later in the game they could throw all their pitches and keep the batters off balance. Maybe with video, only a few of the best pitchers can still do that anymore. I think it was Ryan's start against Colorado where Gladden said, this could be a long/short day for Ryan because he is already going to his secondary stuff in the first inning. (he went on to pitch 102 pitches in 5 innings that day)

Will this really help? Last 5 starts - Bundy - 5, 4, 5,4, 5.1 = 23.1 Ryan - 5.1, 5, 5, 4.2, 5.2 = 25.2 Gray - 4.2, 5, 5, 6, 3.2 = 24.1 So in the last 5 starts the difference is 2 2/3 inning for Ryan and 1 inning for Gray compared to Bundy. So maybe throwing Mahle, Archer, Ryan, Bundy Gray would help a little? The fact of the matter is that if your starter goes 5 you need 4 innings, and since most Twins starts are 5 innings, you need two set of 4 pitchers to pitch one inning every other game, and that is not sustainable.

35 year old deGrom can opt out, Eovalid, Nola has a club option, Rodon can opt out, Manaea, Kershaw, and Bassitt has a mutual option. That seems like the best and I bet the Twins get none of them.

I would call it lazy tweeting by Nash to say the last 10 games without mentioning it is only 52 innings, but it is not it must have taken some work to figure it with just 10 starts, because if you do his last 11 his ERA is 4.18 (56 innings) or his last 9 (44 innings) it is 4.29. But I say no to Sano and sad to see him go, as for Bundy is less than 5 innings a start and a ERA of 4.76 really cost 11 million? I say no on him as well. Gray has been a pretty big disappoint for me as well, He is also averaging less than 5 innings a start and if you told me before the season he will have less Quality starts then Smeltzer, pitch in the 7th inning twice and only have 3 games with over 87 pitches and a max of 97 I would have called you a damn liar. Maybe we trade him this off season and re-coup on the Petty trade?

Boston traded him for one reason, they thought the three guys they got and the money they saved from Price was going to make their team better than just having Betts and Price. Is it? At this point it sure doesn't seem like it but they still have to prospects that might help?

Yes that is exactly what I was saying ?, I guess satire is allowed in the article but not the messages? Yes I do think of overweight people like me with words like bathrobe all day. slob, goon, sweatpants he calls “my going-out ones.” drink the dipping sauce from Raising Cane’, attacks a Culver’s ButterBurger with a ferocity and stain on the jersey, you don't think that is what he was trying to portray an of shape Homer Simpson type person? And my attempt at humor was more about being sensitive in 2022 not about fat people. Finally did you not see the message I said it wasn't my best attempt at humor?

Similar to the article it wasn't my best attempt at humor. ?‍♂️

This seems like a blatant shot at overweight people, didn't think this was allowed in 2022?

The hard part with him and others this year, is if he is Plan A at whatever position, lets say SS you have to have a fairly solid plan B, because if he starts out real slow or overwhelmed you either have to ride that out and hope he turns like Miranda did, or if he starts out good and goes the other way like Larnach for example you have to have somebody pretty competent to replace him. IMO the best position for him next year is to start in AAA and force his way up, or give him Gordon's utility position and get him as many starts as he deserves and if he forces his way into the lineup like Arraez has, well that is wonderful problem to have.

I am Not sure they make it, but I don't need them to win the first round, but I do expect them to win a a game, and be close in another. That would be a huge upgrade from last year and give the team and fans some confidence going into 2023. (anything can happen in a 3 games) Currently the central division winner (Cleveland) would play the Rays in the first round and with Bieber, McKenzie and Quantrill pitching I could easily seem them beating TB if they get solid starts and Clase closing it down. I am not anywhere near as confident that Ryan, Gray and Mahle can do the same, but it isn't crazy to think they could sneak out a close game against McClanahan or beat Kluber and Rasmussen/Springer.

3 to 4 a year is crazy talk, nobody can do that and nobody should want that. One starter and a bullpen piece should be what everybody is shooting for. The problem with the Twins is they have had 1 starter (Ryan) in how many years,? Then after a few years of that when a pitcher is due for free agency you are back filling with prospects same with the pen and you basically have a cheap/good pitching staff and you can spend your money on more reliable offensive type players. The pipleline of Dobnak (20), Ober (21), Ryan/Winder(22), with one of SWR/Balazovic/Enlow in 23 and so on would be awesome, not really much need to sign or trade for pitchers, but that pipeline feel apart with injuries every where along the pipleline causing the Twins to sign the likes of Happ/Shoemaker/Bundy/Archer. in 21 Jax failed as a starter, which isn't a problem most are and moved to the pen in 22 and has been decent. In 20 Alcala was brought up as the 1 relief pitcher needed, he hasn't worked out, no real prospect in 21, 22 has given us Duran, and Jax,, 23 needs Moran and somebody prepping for 24 and Alcala to be like Duran.

I was and am a huge JT fan, his dad and my father inlaw are friends. (My father inlaw and his family are also from Sulphur LA)

So you are saying we can expect to the Twins to bring in another couple of Bundy/Archer types again next year?

I think if Twins fans want to know what a pipe line of prospects look like we may want to take a look at the Braves. They seem to have it down in the last few years.

Scott Diamond was better than Ryan is in their first full year and was a year younger. On top of Ryan is more like Gray and Mahle brought in via trade, he pitched all of 9 innings in the Twins minor leagues. The Twins pitching pipeline is a really just a mash unit, but wait until next year when it really flourishes, yes that is answer, next year, when all the injured guys come back 100% healthy. ?‍♂️

I would not, he pitched 37 innings this year, 23 in 21, 0 and coming of TJ, I see no need, if somebody wants to hide him next year on the 60 man, and hope he can pitch in 24 in the minors, good luck to them. Also can we agree he is no longer a prospect? He will be 26 by the time he pitches in any game again. Also Good luck Matt!

Well that is not a good sign going forward, my rough math says he is a pitcher with an ERA of ~4.25, That is OK with a guy consistently getting his team into the 6/7th innings, but not a guy averaging 5 innings. With Ober been similar, 2023 is looking OK, but 24 is looking not good.

That is true, but they do play once a week and all teams basically sell out every game, can the same be said about MLB teams?

I was just pointing out facts on parity. I get the salary disparity and how certain teams can recover from bad contracts. bad draft picks, injuries and what not. And that helps the high payroll teams be more competitive just about every year but doesn't guarantee anything. IMO the problem with baseball is more the way the game is being played (shifts, pitching limits, and the fact that teams generally don't spend on players until they good and if development isn't good that can seem to take forever) more then the salaries of teams and piss poor management from quite a few teams that always seem to be bad. But you are 100% wrong about how bad NBA team or even NFL teams can go from bad to go fast, because of those leagues are basically won by stars or in the case of the NFL mostly star QB's. (Lebron James and Curry have won 8 of the last 11 NBA championships) and like two or maybe 3 of the last 20 super bowls have been won by HOF QB's. Edit: With that said it doesn't mean I would like to see some tweaks here or there, but as long as certain teams are going to continue to run their team the same way, giving them more money isn't going to change that much, and a floor would probably hurt the "poorest" teams the most, because they will have to spend to it and would just pay the likes of Bundy more on a one year contract (for example). The "smart" teams realize not paying older players a ton of money is a good thing and continue to run good pre-arb players out there and then trade them for more prospects is a better way to invest and also limiting their pitchers drive down their price heading into free agency.

I would like to point out there have been 8 unique World Series Winners in the last 8 years. (Braves, Dodgers, Nationals, Red Sox, Astros, Cubs, Royals, Giants) and in those 8 years 11 different teams have went to the world series. the only teams twice (Royals, Astros, Dodgers) There was a run of 3 World Series for the Giants and the Red Sox wontwice in 5 years, but them you start adding teams like Detroit, Cardinals, Rangers, Yankees, Phillies, That is over half the teams being in the world series in the last 12 or so years.

The answer is a simple NO, they don't have too many starters, they have a bunch of 4/5 innings pitchers, what the Twins do with all of them is anybody's guess as of now.

I don't understand the handling of Ryan, He is not pitching well having given up at least 1 run in the first 4 innings and is brought out for the 5th. Pushing his batters faced past his average and runs up 110 pitches. Yet in his last game against a way worse team, he goes 5 gives up 1/3 of the amount of hits (3) and K's 9 guys and is pulled after 78 pitchers. WTF If he can or they will let him pitch 110 pitches, why the heck not do it when his is going well. Also I am starting to worry about Ryan since June his ERA is in the Bundy area.

You are correct on Alcantara, But it isn't like there are no pitches getting their team into the 7th or even finishing the 7th. If you average 6 innings or more a start, you are pretty consistently getting your team to the 7th. Nola has started 22 games, 9 times he pitched in the 6th, 7 times in the 7th, 3 in the 8th 2 in the 9, and 1 below 5. Over half his starts he went 7+ to me that is pretty consistent. You can run though this exercise with at least 20 pitchers and find that in half or very close to half of all their starts they see the 7th inning, it drops down to about 1/4 of their starts they see the 8th. Yes, there are way more pitchers not ever getting to the 7th then there are, but to say it isn't happening just isn't a true.