TwinsDr2021

Let me get this straight we are talking about the soon to be 27 year old pitcher that has blown 5 of his 17 save/hold opportunities in 87 innings and has done his best pitching against the worst teams in the league in September? He has done nothing to prove he is a back of the pen relief pitcher that was what this year was for. So for people to expect him to come back from a 1/2 year injury and do something he has never proven he can do to help the this team to the playoffs might be asking a bit much from him, don't you think?

it is really just semantics, the FO should get all the credit in the world for getting Ryan (very shrewd trade one could argue having to give Strotman a 40 man spot diminishes it but still) , but does somebody that pitched all of 9 innings in the Twins minor league constitute being part of a minor league pipeline? Compared to the guys you mentioned who all ended up pitching over 100 minor league innings for Cleveland.

IMO that trade package wouldn't be enough for even one of the pitchers.

The problem with being sellers on somebody like Correa, means it has to be guaranteed major league players or guys a few years out, they can't take on anymore Strotman type players.

Sorry, I misinterpreted the point. I thought it was that the pipeline HAD started to fill in the major league roster, and I was just pointing out when the got here. I was just saying Jax and Ober were last year and Winder, Duran and Moran and possibly Ryan were this year. that is a large amount of pitchers added the the major league roster, and hopefully that can continue, it is looking less likely they could get that kind of results next year, but not out of the question.

This IMO is the be best, most logical, spot on Message I have seen!

Jax started 14 games an pitched 82 innings (only 11. 1/3 less than Ober, 55 1/3 more than Ryan and Moran pitched 8 ) so one could say Ryan and Moran was this year and Jax was last year, but not sure it really changes the overall point.

So you want the first place Twins to punt on this year for the hope of the future? Seems very similiar to what people said in 19 and 20, and then 21 happened. If you are so convinced this team can't compete do you hold the FO accountable for trading a former first round pick away and spending 35 million on Correa? Or if you are so convinced then Sonny Gray has to go right, why spend the money on him when you could get more prospects for him than just about anybody else on this team? Yes, I am way more satisfied helping this team (without trading all the prospects) and being in the playoffs then the hope they can make it in the future. Who is to stay Gray, Archer, Ryan, Winder and others can't hold down a team with limited innings and a have better relief pitchers including a few on the team now shut down the another team and have players like Buxton, Correa, Polanco, Arraez, AK score enough runs to win? If you and others believe that is not possible, how can it be possible next year, they aren't bringing in multiple aces next year, it will be the same exact starters next year, Gray, Ryan, Winder, Ober, etc.. it isn't like the Twins have the next Cole, Verlander, Bierber, fried, Mikolas pitching in AA or AAA or Correa is even coming back. You don't stand pat or piss away a year that after 94 games you are in first place on hope and prayers, unless of course your goal is piss off the fans or put your job in jeopardy, there is no guarantee that anybody on this team will be better next year then they are right now or healthier. (I sure hope all the young guys, which most aren't really all that young get better, but if I am putting money down on the Twins winning the division this year or next, I am going with this year)

IMO, this is a ridiculous take. The Twins traded a first round pick for a starting pitcher and spent 35 million dollars on basically a one year deal and didn't think they compete this year? Being buyers doesn't mean trading away all your top prospects it means using fill holes with prospects. That is part of the FO job, figuring out how to deal with the future 40 man. Could the Twins be both, sure, but at the end of the deadline the Twins better have improved this years team somehow, if that means moving Ursheal, Bundy, Sano or others and to give new guys more playing time, that is great.

absolutely not, you can't trade talents like that, they must be kept for when the Twins are truly competitive in a couple of year.

"Realistically speaking, the first two names that come to mind when constructing a trade package are Spencer Steer and Matt Wallner. The former is following a path similar to that of Miranda last season and has done incredibly well at both Double and Triple-A." The difference I see with Steer/Wallner compared to Miranda is that Miranda is in the majors days before he turned 24, where Steer/Wallner will be 25 before they see their first major league action (unless they are called up this year). I agree with this article the Twins prospects list has taken a pretty big hit with the top minor league pitchers not stepping up this year. So maybe the twins best trade-able prospects are the young pitchers (the ones under 23).

I doubt Pit would take that package for Bednar but if they would he should be flying back from LA to MIN.

My question is which of the Twins prospects are other teams wanting? If I was another team I would be looking at Winder, Miranda, SWR, AK, Miller, Hajjar, and staying away from the Martin, Canterino, Steer, Wallners, Varland, Obers, and Laranch of the world, but that is just me.

I haven't been for making a trade for a Montas or Castillo and still not, but I think it could be done without gutting the prospects. As for signing a top flight starter, I don't think the Twins are going to spend that kind of money, because with their pitching philosophy it doesn't make sense to pay a starter tons of money if they aren't going to ask the pitcher to give them the extra innings/out/pitches they are not getting from the young guys or Bundy and Archer's of the world. Why pay a guy 20 million (plus) to pitch the way the Twins pitch (I am not complaining here on their philosophy just pointing it out). I don't know if having pitchers go all out with generally high pitch counts protects them from injury, I don't know it doesn't either, but if I was a pitcher I would want to go to a winning team that lets me pitch, that is just me though. As for the third paragraph maybe I didn't explain it well, it had nothing to do with trading away talent or letting somebody walk, it had to do with this FO doing little to nothing in 19 or 20 to try to push them over the top, then crapped the bed in 21 and then letting a first place team in 22 to piss away the division lead (if they don't do something to improve the team and that happens). Good luck on selling the fans that the plan wasn't to actually win for the last 4 years, but hey going forward we are going to. And I agree some of the moves promoted here are crazy ridiculous

Is this Satire or a joke? Here let me have your super studs and I will give you my garbage (Gordon, Celestino, Urshela and Sano might get you Okert, if the Twins picked up all the Salary of Sano and Urshela), Larnach, Steer and Ober/Winder might get you Lopez. To trade for Meyer would cost something like Martin, Ober/Winder and SWR at minimum. To get Perez would cost something like Lewis, Larnach, Canterino and the Ober/Winder.

IMO, not really sure there is a lull, can any team really believe they can sustain multiple rookies being brought up every year and win? The pipeline gave them Ober, Jax, Alcala last year and Winder, Duran and Moran this year, I don't say Ryan is part of the pipeline since spent all of 9 innings in the Twins minors leagues, The FO does get huge credit for getting him though. Next year or later this year they need another starter and relief pitcher to step it up. That would give them 3 starters (4 with Ryan) and half a bullpen, and if they can keep that up for a few years they should be set with pitching. On a side note if I am an agent or a starting pitcher like Musgrove no chance I am signing with the Twins, none, unless the make some guarantee that I won't be used as a five/six inning guy under a 100 pitch type of guy. Completely agree with you that Balazovic and Steer aren't going to land you difference makers and the Twins are not trading Ryan/Winder/AK/Miranda type prospects this year, but they need to do something kind of big to keep the fans from brandishing their torches and pitch forks because after early exits in 19 and 20, the disaster of 21 and blowing 22 (if that happens) good luck getting fans in Target field.

The Twins have had Archer on the roster the whole year and he is a long man pretending to be a starter. I think point is when you have multiple guys that rarely ever see the 5th inning in a start, you need guys in the pen that can go 3 or 4 innings. So are they "long men" so to speak or pitchers that can pitch a few innings every 3 to 4 days. And as long as the Twins plan on starting Archer, bringing back Ober they way they have always pitched him and and employing Bundy they need a pitchers that can go multiple innings or a manager willing to let pitchers go multiple innings.

agree it makes him more expensive, but at the same time is already 31 so that reduces the cost, I have no idea what the Marlins would want or need, and I am not giving up a player already in the majors for him, but I wouldn't be afraid of trading some young pitching prospect.

It is called Hope, simple as that, hope of the future is always brighter and more alluring than the present. Imagine if at some point during the 21 season, somebody said dream if you will the Twins are 3.5 games up on second going into the all star break (With all stars Arraez and Buxton and the Twins went out and signed Carlos frickin Correa to a one year contract and traded for Sonny Gray) , should they go for it and trade some of their top prospects, I would guess most would say heck yea because the hopes and dreams of next year are bright, but when it actually happens some of those same people are like no we shouldn't make those type of trades because our futures is the future. and why? because it diminishes their hopes and dreams of a brighter future. Humans are funny animals

Long relievers, isn't the rotation full of long relievers? Being sarcastic, kind of, sort of, maybe, not really?

Logic doesn't make sense, you would have this guy for the next 4 years with the idea he is pitching in the Twins major league bullpen for basically free (compared to signing a bullpen guy),

Why would a rental RP cost more than that and if the Twins are looking for a controllable relief pitcher he will cost more but still shouldn't cost anybody in the top 10 (unless of course people are talking about Bednar and in that case will probably cost a top 3-5 guy and more) The idea that the Twins are built for the future and not this year and thus shouldn't trade some prospect capital to compete (or compete better)for a title this year (while in first place for basically the whole season this far) is crazy talk. Nothing is guaranteed in the future, absolutely nothing. With that said there is not need to blow up the farm but trading a couple and clearing up some 40 man decisions for next year can be done without sacrificing any of the future. Would trading a Sands, Strotman, Cavaco, Sabato Raya, Festa, or even Steer or Wallner (I am not trading either for a short term RP) really change the the look of the Twins prospects?

I am all on board for trading for this guy. Wallner is a bit of an overpay IMO, Gordon and Celestino seem like the right price to pay, not sure I want to trade Celestino with Buxton's injury history.

Balazovic has been somebody I have been really high on and the last few years somebody I didn't want the Twins to trade away, but this is how the world MLB prospects work. Balazovic is still pretty young by Twins standards he won't turn 24 until September, but IMO the days of thinking he could be a top of the rotation starter are pretty much over, my hopes now dropped to a role similiar to Josh Winder (that isn't meant as a bad thing for either guy but more of just a MLB pitcher, not a star) Congrats to the promoted guys, good Luck!

Been a rough couple of times though the rotation, only two pitchers got to ten innings (Winder and Bundy) and their ERA's were 6.30 and 4.5, Smelter had a good start and horrible start ERA 9.64, and Ryan's ERA 1.93, but only got to 9 1/3 innings. They won 4 of the last ten, but if something doesn't change with these results going forward it could be a tough second half. The last thing the Twins need is to lead the Division most of the year and loss it late after what happened in 21. They need re-reinforcements and at minimum make a move or two just to keep the fans happy and excited about next year.