Riverbrian

When Camargo was added to the 26 man roster, sat on the bench for over 20 games while he watched Vazquez OPS under .600 every other day. Any threat to Vazquez playing time was neutralized by the decision makers. Camargo was not allowed to compete. The decision makers predetermined the outcome, Many don't see the big deal. Many justify it. I say it's a big deal. It is opportunity robbed for the purpose of locking in terrible performance. It is this type of thing that lets a Rooker gets away. Rooker Nah? We got Garlick for this specialist role and because we got Garlick taking up a roster spot. We have no room for Rooker. Oh well... we missed out on Rooker... What a shame... It happens... There was simply no room. The people who don't see this sort of thing are often talking about Log Jams on this website. I often hear of log jams but I have never seen one. I just see a bunch of predetermination that doesn't work out as planned. Many don't see the big deal if we add a Margot to the roster so Wallner doesn't have to face left handers. It's a big deal. Margot isn't good... Wallner doesn't fully develop and you don't have room for a Rooker who it turns out can hit both left handers and right handers. All teams miss... Predetermination, not allowing competition, keeping Margot for the entire year, committing roster spots to specialists is how the other players are killed off due to lack of opportunity. The People who make these predeterminations are good at their jobs but they are the same ones who chose Garlick and Celestino who are both out of baseball two years later over one of the best hitters in baseball two years later.

40 Man Pressure was the mechanism. The Twins were adding Paddack and Pagan to the 40 man and only losing Rogers in the deal. Someone from the Twins 40 man would need to be added.

LOL... there is something you are not getting. Excuse me but this stuff drives me nuts. How many times do I need to type "Everyone Misses" in this discussion before you don't reply back to me "everyone misses" like I haven't been saying that? Did you not understand what I meant when I said "decisions are tough in the GM chair"? Am I not real enough when I acknowledge that? Yes the Royals and Padres whiffed they didn't have as much time with him but yeah they whiffed. The A's almost whiffed. He was the last player added to the roster in 2023. It wasn't like the A's knew what they had either. He would have been the 1st player added to the roster if they knew. The superstar Conor Capel (Currently out of Baseball) opened up 2023 as the left handed DH while Rooker waited for a left hander. Rooker started the season 1 for 9 over the first 9 games of the year. He was getting splinters before the mighty Seth Brown (102 Career OPS+) got hurt giving Rooker playing time. Where is he supposed to play? My point isn't just that the Twins missed on Rooker... that can't be argued... The Twins missed on Rooker. MY POINT is that not only did the Twins miss on Rooker,,, they also missed on THE PLAYERS THAT THEY KEPT. Which is literally the difference between one of the best hitters in baseball and a 25 year old who is out of baseball because no one wants him. You listed the players that we kept like it was a no brainer. Yep those players plus the ones that I added are players that got to play OF. You are asking me "Where is he supposed to play"?

Some players get chance after chance. Some players barely get a chance. Predetermination is the culprit. It was predetermined that Kepler was going to get chance after chance. It was predetermined that Rooker was some sort of redundancy. In two years time Rooker becomes one of the best hitters in baseball. Celestino is hoping to sign a minor league contract at age 25. Two years ago... they were a tough decision.

I'm aware of all the players who made up the roster. I'm aware that decisions are tough in that GM office. I get it. Don't forget the Garlick. Plus Refsnyder, Astudillo and Cave. I'm counting on Larnach and Wallner this year. Everyone else on your list. Swing and miss. Gordon cleared waivers. Celestino is 25 and looking for work. Kepler... Was offensively below average for those 3 years with the exception of two months late in 2023. Decisions are tough in the GM chair. They missed. This can't be argued. I get everyone trying to justify the miss. The miss is justified.... but it was a rather large miss when the players they chose are no longer in baseball.

He still has an option remaining with the Athletics.

We think Player A will be good so we will have the patience to absorb struggles and let him grow into the position. We think we are redundant at this spot so we will let this guy go. Predetermination is the key to your plan.

Agreed. All teams miss. My dander isn't up about them missing. I actually don't know what dander is but I know that all teams miss. They missed... it's clear... it can't be argued. They chose a couple of players who are out of baseball this year over a player who was one of the best hitters in baseball last year. My war against specialists clogging up rosters continues on.

Twinsdaily posters can agree, complain, be excited or be apathetic all we want. If none of us saw this coming... it's easily explainable because it's not our eyeballs attached to the authority to make things happen. I just don't see how there is any argument here. The Twins let Rooker go and they kept Garlick, they kept Celestino. That's a Canyon. Twinsdaily not seeing it isn't an issue. Those who are paid to watch and decide not seeing it... is kind of an issue. 😉

I wouldn't read that article. I would read the one about Adolis and the Cardinals. 5000 words is a lot though.

There was another Rooker discussion on a different thread so I wasn't going to comment on this one... But Oh Well. 2021 didn't go that great at the major league level. There is no doubt about that. However... in fairness... there were two players that year that we will be counting on THIS YEAR that were in the same boat statistically... Larnach and Jeffers. Gordon, Astudillo, Simmons and Cave were offensively worse and received more AB's in MLB than Rooker did. Celestino had 59 well below average AB's in 2021. Rooker had more AB's in AAA that year to the tune of a .931 OPS. In 2022. He wasn't the same guy. His AAA OPS at El Paso and Omaha combined to 1.044. At the major league level... 7 AB's in San Diego... 29 AB's in Kansas City. 36 scattered AB's in the majors... I'm sorry... you can't say "Same Guy". Maybe a light switch was flipped in 2023. I don't know but with Rooker that light switch really really flipped. It did not flip for Astudillo, Gordon or Celestino who the Twins gave more playing time. I'm not sure why it's hard to accept the possibility that the Twins missed on their assessment here.

I do It happened with opportunity.

Amongst us on Twinsdaily. There is a tendency to believe that a late blooming Rooker is a rare occurrence. There is no question that It is a rare occurrence and I won't argue that. However... I believe that it is quite possible that this type of occurrence is made even more rare because players like Rooker who made the adjustments at age 28 are not given the chance to show the fruits of their labor while teams fill up roster space with Margot and Farmer who perform below average and are allowed to struggle without consequence. I can't give you specific names because the players who are not given a chance just disappear into the wind. Will some unnamed player on the Rockies lose an opportunity because of Farmer next season? I don't know but if Farmer has another season like last year... The answer is yes. In the end the Rockies will waste an entire of potentially getting better letting Farmer be Farmer. They will spend 3.25 million dollars in order to not give someone else a chance for the major league minimum. If Farmer has a good year... never mind... they found someone. With Rooker... for whatever reason... justified or not justified at the time.... Hindsight or foresight. It simply can't be argued that the Twins missed on him because Rooker is hitting better than any player on the Twins current roster and many other rosters for that matter. Meanwhile the string of specialists that have taken up roster space are nowhere to be found. Garlick (Left Handed Pitcher specialist and Celestino (Can play CF specialist) are looking for minor league deals. That's the complete opposite to Rooker who became one of the best hitters in the league. There is a grand canyon in difference between can't find work and one of the best hitters in baseball. That's how large this miss was. The Twins chose the Donkey behind door #1 instead of the Washer/Dryer behind door #2 or the brand new car behind door #3. The worst part is that they chose the donkey because they needed something they could occasional hook a plow to and they had a hat with earholes that only a donkey could wear. I have no idea what Yunior is or can be. I won't pretend to know. I do know that he we could have given him a roster spot on multiple occasions due to injury and we didn't. Correct Call? I don't know but I believe that Farmer and Margot were not correct calls... year long not correct calls. The Twins at best tread water with specialists... at worst... they don't tread water and they place development and discovery into the back seat. Development is the only way the Twins will get better. Finding a Kerry Carpenter type because Margot isn't in the way... is one less thing to do next off-season. I don't blame the Twins for missing Rooker with the information they had at the time. I blame the Twins for not developing Rooker and I blame the Twins for who they chose and gave chance after chance to instead.

Aiding and abetting is a crime in most states. Sentences can range from Community Service to hard time.

It's always hindsight. 😉 Don't players make adjustments as part of their development? Sometimes big revamps... Sometimes little tweaks and everything in between... video aided, data aided, coaches on staff suggesting this, suggesting that with the goal of getting the most out of every player. There is a clock on every player before hard decisions are made on who stays and who goes. If what Brent Rooker is doing for Oakland was somewhere inside him while he was walking around Fort Myers... it's in the best interest of the organization to get that Oakland version of Rooker out of him. They didn't get it out of him, they didn't see it and they let him go. They couldn't pull Brent out of that pile of players in the middle. I don't doubt you when you say that Rooker made adjustments that turned him into a different player. With his adjustments shining and on display in 2023... It still took an injury to Seth Brown before Rooker was given that fateful chance by the A's that he ran with. Seth Brown and Ramon Laureano were the guys on the corners that the A's believed in over others. The A's could barely pick Rooker out of that pile in the middle. Without Brown's injury... Rooker probably wouldn't have gotten enough opportunity to show he was a new Rooker. It's always hindsight. However... there is a foresight process before the hindsight. The Twins, Padres, Royals and I'll add the A's. Had trouble seeing it. There's the getting the most out of a player part and almost just as important... there is the getting Garlick, Celestino, Margot out of the way part. Not just the Twins... but all organizations often choose Garlick for some reason.

It only goes to show something that I've always said on this website. You never know who you are talking with? You must be proud. Deservedly so. On the subject at hand. I don't believe in redundancy or log jams. Having too many good players is never a problem... Having too many good players is what every team should strive for. Yet... these discussions keep coming up because... we keep trying to reduce depth to an inch deep for some reason. Right now... I'm counting on Trevor... I'm counting on Matt... Erod.. All of them. Tell Trevor... please don't let me down. 😁

That is a good question. My concern would be that if they took the 6m in savings and divided it up amongst 3 players at 2m like they did last year with Polanco. That is my biggest concern. Now if they took that 6m and held it so they had some financial wiggle room to add at the trade deadline. Oddly... I'd be ok with that... However... they need to be able to replace what Castro does... via Helman or someone for the minimum. Because Castro or the Castro doppelganger is going to rise up to over 300 AB's with our injury history.

It's a question of the price point. Castro has undeniable value to the roster or any roster. Does he have 6 million worth of value is the question. He doesn't if his performance can be replicated for less.

635 Plate Appearances

We don't have the health to utilize two roster spots for one complete player. They will have to get better at it. They won't get better at it as long as we roster a Margot doppelganger and a Farmer doppelganger to round them out. The new hitting coach could get them dressed up for a left handed pitcher party... but they still won't have anyplace to go because of those doppelgangers. My neighbor has frequent BBQ's that he invites me over to. There is a fence in my backyard that makes it harder to get into my neighbors backyard. I was complaining to my wife that I had to walk all the way around to the other side of his property to enjoys some ribs and a beer. She reminded me that I was the one who built the fence.

Most trades are equal value at the time of the trade. GM's would have to be pretty in tune to the value of each player. There is one sure way to win a trade. That one sure way is to increase the value of the player you acquired. Make the player you acquire better. There is one sure way to lose a trade. That one sure way is to decrease the value of the player you acquired. Fail to make the player you acquire better. The Yankees didn't win the trade at the time of the deal... they didn't acquire a rookie of the year when the trade was made. They won the trade by developing a rookie of the year. The Twins lost the trade because Jake Cave after a couple of OK seasons at age 25 and 26... fell apart in his prime at age 27 and decreased in value to the point that he was placed on waivers (Zero Value). Jake Cave wasn't an old vet... He was a 25 year old also with a future in front of him. The Twins can't be blamed for the Yankees doing a good job developing Gil. The Twins can be blamed for failing to develop Cave. We needed Cave at the time because we failed to develop a Cave.

If there is a department on the roster that I'm semi comfortable with at the moment... it's the bullpen. In regards to stuff. Duran, Jax, Stewart, Alcala and Varland are all closer talent or closer potential. Sands looks like he has hang a zero ability. Topa looked like a decent arm in Seattle back way back in 2023. Please... Falvey... Please Zoll... Please Rocco. Don't borrow from the bullpen to fill other holes and please... please... please... No more specialists!!! Quit hiring two employees for one spot. Our absenteeism doesn't allow for such waste.

The best players on any college team or high school team tend to play SS. A college coach or high school coach isn't going to play their best player at 2B because he might project as a 2B in professional baseball. That player is going to be his SS because he is the best they got. Teams draft the best players on any college team or high school team. Therefore an excess of SS's drafted. Therefore the strong possibility of moving to another position or positions in their professional career when they find themselves surrounded by lots of drafted SS's in the system. The Twins are just like the other 29 teams in this regard.

I admit that I wasn't thinking about international pool money. I am now. In theory,,, The Twins may want to take advantage of this Sasaki market condition. The big boys may be willing to pay.

I understand that we would all like the 10 million attached to Vazquez back. I also understand that many are willing to give up A LOT and I mean A LOT to acquire a rookie catcher. Over Pay to acquire Vazquez. Over Pay to acquire Rushing. Just want to make sure that everyone understands that neither Vazquez and his 10 million or Rushing who cost us Duran PLUS will not play full time. Catcher's are consistent over pays and I understand that many on TD are willing to just keep committing resources toward it. Resources (Money to spend or talent to spend) that are seemingly beyond tight at the moment. If the Twins front office takes this approach to the catching position. We would have Lloyd Christmas in charge of the rations.