Riverbrian

Perfect for Camargo I bought a Yo-Yo a couple of decades ago for my kids. They spun that thing maybe once and then it sat on the shelf untouched for the rest of it's existence.

No doubt... It's a pretty disappointing stat line from Camargo. His 2023 stat line was much better. 21 Dingers... .826 OPS in 2023. He got himself one of those 40 man spots in the off-season so there was a time when the Twins must have thought he was worth something and he kept that 40 man spot all year. Still has it. Yet by April 13th... granted... still sitting in small sample land. Camargo was called up to replace an injured SS when Correa strained an oblique. Granted... its a little early to jettison players off the 40 man or react to small samples. The injuries came quick and the injuries didn't come at the catcher position. It was either Camargo or Severino so the Twins went with a third catcher to replace our superstar SS and he didn't play. Camargo was batting third for the Saints with an OPS of .825 on April 12 much like his 2023 season OPS that earned him that 40 man spot. Max Kepler returned on April 21 sending Camargo down to AAA. On the day that Camargo was sent down to AAA to resume his .825 OPS... Vazquez was sitting with a .158 OPS and .222 slug. The Twins were 7-12 at the time. Sarcastically from me... It seems... By April 21st the Twins had determined that Camargo could never out play Vazquez. Determined that if Camargo would have played during this time... the Twins would have been 5-14 instead of 7-12 without Vazquez. I'm sure my sarcasm isn't the case... there has to be more to the story because... Camargo kept that 40 man spot all year. He kept that 40 man spot on July 12th when he was called back up to replace Kyle Farmer who had a shoulder strain. Again the Twins went with a stable of 3 catchers to replace a infielder. On July 11... Gardenhire was batting Camargo 4th in the lineup with an OPS of .729. Who else was in AAA on July 11? Severino OPS .841 and Julien OPS .763 both were on the 40 man roster. On July 11th... Severino went 3 for 6 with two home runs his 17th and 18th of the year against the Iowa Cubs. Camargo was called up instead. Also in St. Paul on July 11th not on the 40 man... Keirsay OPS .810 and Castillo OPS .777... Castillo was given a roster spot and called up two days later when it was determined that Miranda's back could use some rest. Boushley was DFA'd to accommodate. Julien would be recalled on July 20 when Correa was placed on the injured list as the injured list is making a noticeable humming noise. Camargo is sent down on July 25th. Up with the big club for two full weeks exactly. On July 24th. Vazquez was the holder of a .196/.222/.293 slash. Also on July 24th... Ryan Jeffers was in an extended slump thing with a .587 OPS over his last 170 AB's since May 15th. Camargo kept watching from the bench for two full weeks. Can't play Camargo because we might lose... can't take him off the 40 man because we might lose him? If anyone ever wonders why I believe that player assessment is hard for all 30 front offices. Why I believe that assessment is hard because the margins are incredibly thin. Why I believe that front offices, managers, coaches and scouts are able to silently kill careers based on pre-determinations on small margins that are often wrong. Just follow the travels of 2024 Camargo. Assessed Camargo good enough for a 40 man spot but not good enough to out play a .575 OPS You are right... Catcher Development Has Sucked. Which is unfortunate because Catchers are consistent over pays. You develop a catcher... teams will over pay to acquire that catcher. If you don't develop your own catcher.. you will have to over pay to acquire a catcher. For example 30 million paid to bring in Vazquez. Could you trade Vazquez? Nope... because the Twins have failed to develop a catcher. Instead we acted like a 33 year old with .575 OPS could not be replaced.

You keep Vazquez because Camargo was: Called up April 13 and Sent Down April 22 then Called up July 12 and sent down July 25 then Called up September 9 and sent down September 11 then Called up September 26 and sent down September 27. During these times of 26 man roster assignment for Jair Camargo. He had 7 AB's. If the Twins traded Vazquez and handed the back up job to Camargo this off-season. I'd drive to 1 Twins Way and throw tomatoes at the window. Free Agent Catchers are expensive. If the Twins traded Vazquez and picked up a free agent catcher to replace Vazquez. It will also be expensive. If the catcher we acquire is not expensive... the catcher acquired will not be better than Camargo. If the Twins trade for a catcher to replace Vazquez. The trade will be expensive from a talent stand point because catching is expensive.

I'm not selling him because I don't think he is high enough to sell right now. Actually I'm not selling him because I'm counting on him next year. Lewis is often injured. Kirilloff is often injured. Julien might play a little 1B. Pete Alonso most likely isn't coming. Miranda is on my roster.

The Twins should absolutely sign Willi Castro and Keep him. I have no problem with WIlli Castro. He's a decent ballplayer with multi position ability with speed that the club sorely lacks. With that said... here is the problem that I have with Castro. Willi Castro is not a problem. Willi Castro leading the team in AB's is a problem. 102 OPS+ should not lead a team in AB's and our ultra platoon system will have Willi leading the team in AB's in 2025. Our injury history with our best returning players will lead to Willi Castro leading the team in AB's in 2025. We have over inflated his value due to the Twins prioritization of keeping our platooning system intact. Wallner, Larnach, Julien or Kirilloff will occupy the 3 long side platoon roster spots. Castro's splits don't justify one of the three short side spots and I don't believe we can afford to pay 6 million for a short side spot anyway. This means Castro will get one of 5 every day spots with a 102 OPS+. That's a problem. Utilizing Castro every day like he is Mookie Betts is a problem.

Yep For the health of the sport. MLB and the players association needs to understand that there needs to be hope in Pittsburgh. In the NFL... there is hope in Pittsburgh and Green Bay and Jacksonville. OK... Maybe not Jacksonville 😄 Baseball has a chance at being a national sport when all the small markets are added together as happy consumers of the sport. The first step is the owners and players union working together under the common goal of providing hope to Pittsburgh, Kansas City, Milwaukee, Cincinatti, Minnesota and so on. In the meantime. I'm going to understand the reality that has been reality for decades in the sport of baseball. The owners and players union are going to fight over money until it goes off the cliff. I'm not going to get excited about labor negotiations because I understand that it is money fighting over money and agreement after agreement doesn't change anything and the end result will not be in MY best interest once again. And finally... I will always understand that the Twins will spend in a range along with other teams and that payroll will go up and down in that range. And I will also understand that even if the Twins raised that payroll range up a bit to lets say... Cardinal Territory... they will still be 100 million short of what other clubs are able to do.

I agree 100%. Very well said. There is no question that having money to spend is a rather large advantage. I agree with what you say. The primary advantage is that money provides the ability to cover large contract mistakes. The Dodgers can easily eat millions of dollars in waste. They can pay 17 million to Paxton and Margot to play for other teams. They can just release Heyward and Biggio's and absorb the financial hit. They can absorb the money they spent for a total of 90 Innings of Yamamoto. They had young pitchers like Gavin Stone, Landon Knack and River Ryan filling in quite capably in the meantime. The Yankees can absorb around 64 million to players like Stroman, Verdugo, Rizzo and Lemehieu who probably shouldn't have made that kind of money based on performance. Again... to be clear... I believe that payroll is a rather large advantage that the wealthy enjoy but this discussion is very nuanced. Yes the Rangers won with the 4th highest payroll last year. A. They barely got in B. Around 100 million of that 4th ranked payroll was either unavailable or not effective come playoff time. C. The 119m D-Backs gave them a run for the money after they knocked off the 240m Dodgers to get there. If the purpose of this article is to express that the Twins would have been more successful if they just spent more money. Maybe... money is helpful... it is an advantage. However... I do feel it necessary to point out that there is a rather large canyon between spending some more money and the financial ability or willingness to just absorb 50 to 100 million in non-performing money like the Big Boys can do.

Yes... These matchups exist in the playoffs. Are we done now? Did you just win the argument? Do you honestly believe that I don't understand that these matchups exist in the playoffs. ESPECIALLY WHEN I JUST ACKNOWLEDGED THAT PLATOONING EXISTS ON ALMOST ALL 29 TEAMS DURING THE REGULAR SEASON. Why do you ignore what I say... in order to make a point that I'm not saying? Do you think these playoff matchups as you call them WERE PUT TOGETHER IN MARCH when you are putting the roster together and spending the budget? Do you think that entire analytics team gets it 100% right? I don't claim to be 100% right. Still got my opinions that you are ignoring just so you can put opinions that I'm not making in my mouth. STOP DOING THAT!!! Do you think that I don't know that the Twins have an ENTIRE ANALYTICS DEPARTMENT? Yet... you want to play that card with me. Might as well just shut down the forums. None of us... INCLUDING YOU have a leg to stand on in that regard. Do you think that I don't know that the other 29 teams have an ENTIRE ANALYTICS DEPARTMENT? Do you think the analytics compiled by all 30 teams are that much different from the other teams? Do you think they decide what they prioritize? Yet the Twins platoon more severely than any other team. They set their roster to prioritize protecting the left handed hitter. Is their data special? Are the other 29 teams doing it wrong? I can be ridiculous with you just like you are being with me? What else have you got for me? Do you want to bring up how revenue strapped clubs like the Twins need to survive even though I've never asked for a high priced free agent or complained about payroll? I know you like how Cleveland has built their roster because you use them as an example of how markets of our ILK must operate. Why do they have 7 left handed hitters and two switch hitters on their roster if the ENTIRE TWINS Analytics department has concluded that left handed hitters must be kept from left handed pitching. Don't answer the question. I'm really not interested in anything you have to say. What other point that I haven't made do you want to claim I've made? I again ask... Less Kindly this time. Quit trying to interpret my thoughts. You are horrible at it.

Whining? This is you being belligerent once again and why you will remain on ignore. I will respond one more time and then leave you alone forever because this thread will be derailed by continueing the discussion. "State your interpretation". I have purchased more real estate on the subject than anyone on this site. I have typed more column inches than anyone on the site. I have stated my position over and over again. I have approached it comprehensively. You still condense and distort it, don't understand it and you do so belligerently. This is a pet subject of mine much like revenue is a pet subject of yours. My opinions are posted. Let me simplify it for you since everything that I've typed thus far has gone over your head and you are asking for interpretation. Don't roster short siders. Especially when you spend 10 million dollars of very limited revenue on them. I'd rather spend the limited amount of money available on a player or players who hit better against right handed pitchers. They will end up facing more right handers than left handers which will cancel out the limited gain their presence on the roster might provide. I never typed that I want 13 left handers in the lineup. You said that I did. This is a distortion and this is what you consistently and belligerently do... therefore I have no interest in discussing anything with you. I am not anti-platoon,.. I recognize the splits as historically real. I am anti the extreme version of the platoon that we deploy. Almost every team platoons. The Guardians (the subject of this thread) platoon pretty heavy. I wouldn't starve a young left handed hitter like Kyle Manzardo vs left handers much like the Twins do with our young left handed hitters. I think it's bad for development but almost every team platoons. The difference is that Cleveland did not spend 10 million on short siders. They have rostered more left handed hitters than right handed hitters. They didn't yank out the left handed hitters in the 5th inning in May. They spent the minimum on each of the players that they utilized from the right side of the plate and they still get their playing time against right handed pitching despite having an overwhelming left handed roster. David Fry has 206 AB's vs RH and 129 AB's vs LH. Noel has 122 vs RH and 57 vs LH. Compare that to the Twins: Margot had 159 AB's vs RH and 156 vs LH. Farmer had 108 AB's vs RH and 107 AB's vs LH. Due to talent... the Twins had to manage their short siders much steeper and still couldn't shield them from RHP and they paid 10 million for it. Fry and Noel did a little more to earn their place on the 26 man roster than our short siders. Fry produced a .804 OPS overall and Noel produced a .774 compared to Farmer producing .646 OPS overall and Margot producing a .626 overall. This was what we got for 10 million. Nearly a 50-50 split with RH and LH AB's so the gains were cancelled out. While Cleveland got closer to a 2 to 1 ratio of RH/LH for the league minimum and better production. The Yankees didn't platoon much at all during the regular season. Now that the playoffs are here they have went to a Rizzo/Berti platoon. They got a season worth of data to make that decision... regardless if the decision is right or wrong or some place in between. There are multiple reasons why I feel the way I do. I have typed all of the reasons over the course of time. You still belligerently misrepresent my opinions. No matter how many words I type and I have typed a lot of words on it... you still manage to reduce/condense the tons of what I've said... into something that I didn't say and then act like a jerk about it. I kindly ask that you quit trying to interpret my points. You and I have no reason to ever discuss anything ever.

You are still on ignore and you will remain on ignore. The assumptions of mine that you list are not my assumptions. They are once again distortions of my positions. Once again.. you don't understand and you don't understand belligerently. I ask kindly that you refrain from interpretation of my thoughts.

Over the course of 162 games. We lost 4 more games than the Royals and Tigers did. 1 more loss every 40 games, The margins are pretty thin. Too thin for games not to matter. On the other hand... The Yankees lost 68 games last year. They had some straightening out.

They are two hugely different things. In the playoffs... Platoon all you want. You'll have a season worth of data to help you with who to lean on in the playoffs.

They have been so heavy on this course since Julien and the Young Lefties (Great Band) hit the scene. I'd be shocked if they reversed course. However... they were heavy on the third time through the order thing with the starting pitching and pulled back on that so I still have hope that they are capable of getting closer to a normal application of the platoon split. While they were doing the third time through the order thing they took it to a new level. Kind of like drinking 4 bottles of wine a night when a glass of wine is good for you. Now they have taken the lefty vs lefty thing to 5 bottles of wine a night. I'm hoping that Margot and Farmer facing more right handers than left handers this year showed them the issues with the strategy. I'm hoping that injuries we suffered at the top of the pile and will suffer again showed the need for a deeper roster with less specialty on it because we will need them to be more than what they are. I'm hoping that injuries we suffered showed that at some point the plan is not sustainable through the course of 162 games and that they realize the need to use games earlier in the year to prepare for suddenly needing your left hander to hit left handed pitching in September because the right handed hitters are on the DL. I'm hoping that they realize that Castro and Santana leading the team in AB's is not ideal. I'm hoping that they realize that signing Margot's every year to keep the integrity of it in place is not good strategy. I'm hoping that they realize that nothing is more important than the development of our cheap talent and that hiding them from the certain aspects of the game of baseball is not helpful in their development. I'm hoping that the playoff teams that were heavy lefty showed success without it and I'm hoping that the success of the Detroit Tigers with a roster made of youth shows them that youth isn't scary... crappy playing veterans is much more scary. I'm guessing of course... However... if they are going to adjustments... I assume it would have to be a little on the dramatic side given assumed financial limitations. If Payroll is going to limit possibilities... they pretty much have to roll with the majority of the 40 man already in place. Leaving multiple trades to free up money as the only option. Unless they surprise me... I expect the majority of the current 26 man and the 40 man to be in place.

Yep... They will rue the day. Some of us may not notice the specific rue but yes they will. It's almost guaranteed. The consequence... the "rue".... the bill that will have to be paid in the future is: 1. They will have to limit the amount of lefthanders on the roster just to execute the strategy because you are limited on how many you can protect. 2. They will eventually have to face left handers because there are more lefties than they can protect and if they need to face left handers all of sudden... two years will have been wasted... when they all of sudden have no choice. 3. Aging vets will need to occupy roster space or worse yet... Young prospects from the right side of the plate will be utilized for short side duty. Even Kepler went through a significant stretch of time this season being protected against left handers. It happened when Julien was sent down and all of sudden they were light on lefties and heavy on right handed specialists. Margot was here to play against right handers so Kepler would sit so Margot could play. It became necessary to justify the existence of Margot. Kepler faced lefties when we had 4 lefties... once you lose a lefty to injury or poor play and go down to 3. Kepler has to fill the role just to keep the process intact. The Twins worked real hard just to keep this platoon strategy in tact throughout injuries and poor play. The commitment to the bit was impressive but sad. They will rue the day. I'm already ruing.

I've been singing this song for quite some time now. And I don't believe I will stop singing this song. 75% of Pitching is right handed pitching. The Twins need to stop employing specialists like Margot and Farmer to face the 25% of left handed pitching just so Wallner doesn't have to face them. Especially when you consider the fact that our 3 best players (Correa, Buxton and Lewis) who will face both left and right are often injured and show no signs of not being often hurt. Because when they get hurt... it draws Margot and Farmer into the lineup against right handers. Both Margot and Farmer faced more right handers than left handers in 2024. With our injury luck we can't afford to waste roster spots on specialists. Get more left handed hitters or hitters that are better against the 75% and take your lumps against the left handed pitching. You mention Miranda... you are spot on. Miranda is still developing. Making him a short side specialist at this stage of his career will turn him into nothing of future value.

And yet... in 2024... Cleveland led the major leagues in plate appearances by left handed hitters. 3,984 of them. The Orioles were 2nd with 3602 of left handed PA's. The Blue Jays were last with 1,925. The Twins were 18th ranked with 2,588 Cleveland will roll out a lineup of L,L,S,L,R,L,L,L,S against right handed pitchers. The only R in that group is Lane Thomas acquired at the trade deadline. The top 7 players ranked by plate appearances in 2024 were lefty or switch. Against left handed pitching... the top 4 ranked by AB's were switch, left, left, left.

Personally... I'd like to see the club increase the overall team speed. I'd like to see this... perhaps more than anyone. I'm watching what the Brewers and Guardians did on the base paths and it seems to be a clear weapon to create runs when runs are hard to come by. The rule changes have brought speed back into the game. However... as badly as I'd like to see team speed increased for better balance. I think it's important for all baseball teams. The players with speed still have to be able to hit the ball. I'm not going to advocate signing Garrett Hampson because he has some wheels.

Not many. Do they have to turn into a full time starters? Can they just turn into David Fry? Actually... can they just do better than Manuel Margot, Kyle Farmer or Cristian Vazquez did last year. 3 players who kept a roster spot all season long. The Twins committed 1,440 AB's to players who performed under .655 OPS for the year. Right now... Michael Helman is listed on the 26 man roster on roster resource. Does anybody really expect the 28 year old Helman to be on the 26 man roster opening day? I expect them to pay 4 million to a 30 year old Manuel Margot type instead. I expect players like Alex Verdugo and Alex Kirilloff to get chance after chance instead. Now I understand that the front office is supposed to know that Helman could never out perform Manuel Margot. They may be right. However... if they do indeed know these things. How did we end up with 1,440 AB's from players under .655 OPS. If they are that precise with their knowledge... they must have known that those players would OPS under .655 OPS for 1,440 AB's or so... and they rostered them anyway. If front offices know these things. How did the Mets choose Brett Baty over Mark Vientos? I don't know what a 28 year old Michael Helmen will do in the majors if given a chance. I make no claims. However... I am pretty sure that he won't be given a chance. Someone like Travis Jankowski will take that opportunity away from him. The end result of this sort of thing. Not many is the answer to your question.

I tend to agree with the basic thoughts of IndianaTwin. I have no idea what is happening behind those walls but the easiest explanation that fits into my head space is quite simple. That explanation is that... Something changed whatever that may be. Was it the RSN? Was it the pending sale? A combination of these things? Was it something that we haven't thought of? Something changed. Plans were altered on the fly. We have a GM who was either booted out politely or he said he had enough and left one of 30 well paying jobs that many dream of and he left it with no job lined up? Something changed is the only thing that I can come up with? I wish I knew but I don't. However... the Chaos is leaking through the limestone walls and visible to those walking past 1 Twins way.

You see it perfectly. Lee as it stands is that 5th player in bucket 4 or else Miranda or Martin. If they don't acquire a bucket 4 worthy individual via acquisition. Bucket 4 is a big problem. 3 injury prone players at the top of the list. Brooks Lee who hasn't established himself yet... all we have is a fairly rough beginning and Willi Castro who plays a lot of positions... very valuable but basically average offensively. Bucket 4 is a problem and Castro's existence in bucket 4 is a problem. Bucket 2 is a problem because young developing players like Miranda and Martin are relegated to short side which is crappy for development. Also Miranda's splits suggest that he has been a better hitter against right handers. The Twins got some work to do this off-season in my opinion and how Castro is deployed could be a pivot point.

I have a fun exercise for y'all. The Twins have consistently placed their position players into 4 buckets in the past two years, Bucket #1 (3 Players) - Left Handed Batters who need to be protected against left handed pitchers. This bucket has been the primary factor in the clubs lineup construction to the point that it's probably the primary factor in roster construction. Bucket #1 can't be denied or ignored. Bucket #1 is the Twins. Bucket #2 (3 Players) - Short side Right Handed Batters who need to face those left handed pitchers so left handers in Bucket #1 don't have to. You can't really have a bucket #1 without a bucket #2. Bucket #3 (2 Players) - Catchers Bucket #4 (5 Players) - Players who play most every day. That's 13 players, Here's the fun exercise part. Drop the players on the current roster into the proper bucket. Watch where Castro lands. After you do that and you realize that it's too much playing time for Castro. Try to reduce his playing time while also protecting the sanctity of bucket #1 and bucket #2. It won't take long to realize that Castro will lead the Twins in AB's again in 2025.

Dear, Whoever is in charge of those little packets of mustard. Please go to a dispenser. The packets are nearly impossible to open. Sincerly, Riverbrian

My point was that they would have difficulty moving that contract because they paid more than other teams were willing to pay. However... I see the point that you so doggedly make. The Giants and Mets backed out. Thank you for pointing this out. This was clearly beyond my understanding.

I have no idea but my thought has always been. The Twins are in a large clump of teams who are always in the same range in regards to payroll. I don't expect it to change... I assume they are clumped together for a reason but who knows... we might get an owner(s) who arrives and introduces us to a higher range of payroll. If that happens... Eventually the fans will be back to complaining about payroll once adjusted to the new higher range. 😁

Follow it through in your head. The Twins were willing to pay Correa more money than other teams were. If the Giants and Mets were willing to pay more money than the Twins. Correa would be playing for the Giants or Mets. If the Giants and Mets backed out... they were not willing to pay more. Doesn't matter if it was health or body odor. They were not willing to pay more. Correa had a pen in hand... the Giants and Mets did not provide a piece of paper with words on it. The Twins had the best offer that he could affix a signature to. If you want to repeat your point that the Giants and Mets originally offered more. Please don't.