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    OK, But Really: Why Did the Twins Openly Leak Their Payroll Drop?


    Nick Nelson

    It was a decision that seemed weird at the time, and now seems even weirder as the self-inflicted negative PR takes its toll in early offseason discourse.

    Why did the Twins reveal their intentions to decrease their payroll? What did they stand to gain?

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    The Twins didn't exactly hold a press conference to announce it, but they might as well have. In early November, shortly after the conclusion of the World Series, team leadership left little ambiguity about the spending outlook for 2024.

    “We’ve pushed our payroll to heights that we had never pushed it before with the support, certainly, of ownership,” Derek Falvey said. “We know there is some natural ebb and flow to that. Will it be where it was last year? I don’t expect that. I expect it [to be] less than that. Some of that may come more organically.”

    Some follow-up reporting from Dan Hayes for The Athletic brought even more detail to light: the team foresees "significant payroll cuts" of up to $30 million. This journalistic revelation was less overt than Falvey's open on-the-record admission, but still, you don't get the sense it was some tightly-held secret. Clearly Twins leadership–or at least certain elements of it–didn't mind having this narrative out there in the public sphere.

    WHY?
    Coming off a division-winning campaign and a long-awaited postseason breakthrough, the Twins were riding high. They had a prime opportunity to parlay the excitement surrounding this team into a robust winter of season ticket sales and sponsorships. Even if reduced spending was an inevitable reality (and arguably a reasonable one), why come out and say it right away? What is to be gained?

    Falvey and this front office are too strategic, too intentional to just let something like this slip accidentally. There was a rationale behind getting the word out there. Maybe that's what is most annoying about it for those of us trying to analyze from the outside; it's really hard to find an obvious answer. The effects of setting this vibe for the offseason have been fairly predictable. The widespread reaction to nearly every piece of Twins-related news is colored by resentment toward dropping payroll in a moment of great opportunity. 

    Parting with longtime scouts from the previous regime? Cheap. Failing to re-sign Sonny Gray and Kenta Maeda? Classic Pohlads. Never mind that these decisions adhere to the same general philosophies this front office has pretty much always followed. The Twins are willingly inviting this narrative.

    So again, I ask: why? There's got to be some sort of motivation behind this course of action. In trying to land on an explanation that seems viable, a few potential objectives come to mind.

    They're trying to create awareness of the TV situation and its implications.
    This strikes me as most probable. While many Twins Daily regulars are likely aware of the team's collapsed broadcasting deal with Diamond Sports Group and what it means for the overall revenue picture, a majority of casual fans are not clued in.

    Not everyone's going to be empathetic to a mega-rich operation making fractionally less profit, but at least it gets an associated (and arguably valid) causal factor out there. Hayes's article makes this framing clear: "Following the expiration of a Bally TV deal that netted them $54.8 million last season, Falvey acknowledged the team’s payroll wouldn’t be nearly as high," he wrote. If a public perception is formed that "better TV deal = higher payroll", it could help the team curry support in its quest to find a new solution.

    They're trying to influence market expectations. 
    The Twins love to find a competitive advantage wherever they can get it. If players, agents, and other front offices believe the Twins are intent on reducing their payroll, it could influence perceptions in interesting ways. Perhaps another team discounts the stealthy Twins in negotiations for a key player. 

    A stretch? Perhaps. But it'll be a feel-good story for everyone if the Twins end up shooting higher than expected and can talk about how they went past their comfort zone to get the guy they wanted.

    They're lowering expectations so they can exceed them.
    Under-promise, over-deliver? The optics of even coming close to repeating their record-setting payroll of 2023 would now be pretty good, given that the team has proactively dampened expectations. I know most of us are zeroing in on the lower end of that $125-140 million range Hayes laid out, to the extent that going beyond that would now feel like a pleasant surprise.

    It matters, because the difference between those two figures would have a sizable impact on what the front office is realistically able to do this offseason when it comes to upgrading the team, or even making up for the losses they've already experienced in free agency. Unfortunately, this is probably wishful thinking. What I keep coming back to is, why come out with it now? If the Twins ended up spending marginally less next year than they did this year, I don't think too many people would notice or care. The up-front framing of these cuts as significant is glaring to me, and makes me expect the worst.

    They're trying to soften a big blow.
    Maybe we are all right to be zeroing in on the low-end $125 million target. Maybe that's the whole point. I don't have any specific insight beyond what's out there, but it wouldn't shock me if the Twins feel overextended after going big last offseason and then losing the RSN honeypot.

    If Falvey is merely leveling with us and being transparent about the steep drop-off to come, I find it hard to begrudge him. I still just don't get it from a business standpoint. Even if the front office leader's corresponding point about payroll–that the Twins can succeed with a lower one because they've built the infrastructure to do so–is accurate, he had to know how the comment and insinuation would be perceived. 

    The reignited payroll narrative is now casting an additional pall over a series of Twins-related headlines that have not been received well: Dick Bremer being ushered out of the broadcast booth, tenured scouts being dismissed, several key free agents signing elsewhere. Hopefully, somewhere on the other side of this, there is a vision to turn the tides and revitalize morale. Right now, all I'm seeing is an avalanche of bad press and buzz-killing vibes. It makes me wonder what exactly the Twins are trying to do from a business and brand standpoint, as much as a baseball one.

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    2 hours ago, Major League Ready said:

    Great post.  I highlighted the cost portion because we often see people do the math without any idea of the production costs.  There is so much we don't including what the group MLB hired to address the problem has come up with.  It seems reasonable, MLB will want to develop a model where the teams and the league control distribution.

    The Twins already produce the broadcast, that’s not new cost. The MLB already distributes via streaming, that’s not entirely new cost. I admit, there might be some new distribution cost… but I don’t think new costs are very high. We don’t know the costs in the model, but Bally/Diamond only shouldered the cost of distribution in a cable tv network, and MLB shouldered the streaming distribution cost. No cable, no cable cost. Yes cable/broadcast, then there’s something, but wouldn’t you have a distribution partner for that who gets a cut? I guess I don’t really care what Bally’s costs were.

    21 hours ago, DJL44 said:

    Another idea - this is the opening of negotiations for the TV contract. If they spend the estimated money in advance then the media company has leverage knowing the Twins need the money to make payroll. This incentivizes the TV company  to wait until the day before the first payroll check is due and force the Twins to settle. The Twins are saying "we can play this whole season without a TV contract at all and we aren't going to cave in."

    This would make sense if they were simply haggling with Bally's but there is no "TV company" to negotiate with. They will either be engaging in a long list of negotiations with individual cable/satellite/streaming companies to give them some % of what htey are currently paying for Bally's or they will take whatever Bally's is willing to offer them through bankruptcy proceedings. Either way, this is isn't likely to gain them much/any leverage.

    19 hours ago, Beast said:

    I don’t think it’s a mystery.  They’re not playing 3D chess, here.  They’re trying to get out ahead of it now, hoping the bad taste it leaves fans and season ticket holder wears off by spring training.  Same reason why major negative news always gets dumped on Friday.  People have the attention span of a vegetable these days, and they know it.

    They also need to align it as closely as possible with their “historic playoff run.”  Look at all the cover that’s run for them on this website alone.  “They’re not cheap and only concerned about the bottom line, it’s a genius organizational long game philosophy that’s won them absolutely nothing….but wait for it.  You wouldn’t understand unless you’re a true MN ball guy that faults ownership for nothing.”

    Except this wasn't getting out in front of anything. If they had said nothing and just gone about the off-season the average fan wouldn't even know what the 2024 payroll is until it's mentioned in the Star Tribune around Opening Day. Sure some fans would have been mad when Gray signed elsewhere but that's about it.

    2 hours ago, SteveLV said:

    NFL streaming on YouTube was about $350 for, arguably, 17 games.  (I am sure many folks watch more than their home team, e.g., gamblers and fantasy football folks).

    I would gladly pay $250 for 162 regular season games and a handful of ST games.  That is $1.50 a game.  Heck, a large Coke at McDonald's is way more than that nowadays.

    If 250,000 fans pay that is $62.5M gross revenue, and they could pay production costs and on-air talent and be close to the Bally contract, and that would be ad-free!

    If they sell advertisement, they could sell it for something like $99, and then there would be no excuse not to purchase it for 90% of fans.  That is less than the cost of attending one game in person, a total bargain.

    Conceptually, I see no reason why they can't profit and flourish with a streaming model.  Am I missing anything?

    Conceptually, no. But I just don't think they would hit those #'s. They wont' get 250K people to pay $250. And you don't want your games only available in 250K homes. For all the "cable is dead" talk, Bally's was still in ~1.2 million homes in the 5 state area. 15 years ago it was in something like 2.5 million homes. That's what the Twins want to get back towards, not reduce it further.

    So they will have to negotiate with the carriers that currently carry Bally's to get a cut of what they were currently paying. And they will make what they can from streaming (I don't see them charging more than $100/year or $20/month max). And they should also return to having a package of games on over the air TV. What will they net from all of that? Probably something in the $20-$30 million range to start. Not nothing but a lot less than $55 million.

    23 hours ago, DJL44 said:

    Another idea - this is the opening of negotiations for the TV contract. If they spend the estimated money in advance then the media company has leverage knowing the Twins need the money to make payroll. This incentivizes the TV company  to wait until the day before the first payroll check is due and force the Twins to settle. The Twins are saying "we can play this whole season without a TV contract at all and we aren't going to cave in."

    Interesting...my initial thought was that the Twins were negotiating against themselves by devaluing any future deal.  Like, they're saying they won't get $50mil again, but I've seen nothing to indicate that's an absurd number.  Any provider is now going to start any negotiation much lower than that.  But you might be on to something here.  

    1 hour ago, howeda7 said:

    Conceptually, no. But I just don't think they would hit those #'s. They wont' get 250K people to pay $250. And you don't want your games only available in 250K homes. For all the "cable is dead" talk, Bally's was still in ~1.2 million homes in the 5 state area. 15 years ago it was in something like 2.5 million homes. That's what the Twins want to get back towards, not reduce it further.

    So they will have to negotiate with the carriers that currently carry Bally's to get a cut of what they were currently paying. And they will make what they can from streaming (I don't see them charging more than $100/year or $20/month max). And they should also return to having a package of games on over the air TV. What will they net from all of that? Probably something in the $20-$30 million range to start. Not nothing but a lot less than $55 million.

    You left out the ad money. Subscriber money should be the smaller piece of the pie.

    All this makes more sense if you open yourself up to the idea that the Pohlads simply aren't very smart businessmen.  The  decision to cut payroll after the year the team had, literally weeks after TF was electric with an energy it literally has never had before, is plain stupid.  No intelligent business would ever kill their own buzz that way.  No intelligent business would then ANNOUNCE that they are killing their own buzz.  Wouldn't the simplest explanation for all of this be that the Pohlads aren't that bright?  

    2 hours ago, Richie the Rally Goat said:

    The Twins already produce the broadcast, that’s not new cost. The MLB already distributes via streaming, that’s not entirely new cost. I admit, there might be some new distribution cost… but I don’t think new costs are very high. We don’t know the costs in the model, but Bally/Diamond only shouldered the cost of distribution in a cable tv network, and MLB shouldered the streaming distribution cost. No cable, no cable cost. Yes cable/broadcast, then there’s something, but wouldn’t you have a distribution partner for that who gets a cut? I guess I don’t really care what Bally’s costs were.

    How do we know who shoulders what costs in the agreement between Bally and a team?  I have no idea so I am not even remotely suggesting you're wrong.  I am just wondering if this is documented somewhere. 

     

    5 hours ago, Major League Ready said:

    Who has ever suggested they will lose ALL of their TV revenue?    

    The Twins!  The Twins are suggesting that.  "We used to get $50m, now we get $0, so we gotta cut payroll by $25-$30mil."  If they factor in the future deal the "spend 50% of revenue" math doesn't work.   

    22 hours ago, notoriousgod71 said:

    This organization needs some serious public relations training.

    Cheaper in the long run to just hire some mid-level FO person from Milwaukee or St Louis with 10 years' experience, and then listen carefully each time he or she says, "well, that's not how we did it back in...".

    5 minutes ago, Woof Bronzer said:

     

    The Twins!  The Twins are suggesting that.  "We used to get $50m, now we get $0, so we gotta cut payroll by $25-$30mil."  If they factor in the future deal the "spend 50% of revenue" math doesn't work.   

    What they have said is that they lost their contract.  That's very different than saying they expect to lose 100% of the revenue generated from TV.  Also, you are doing math that makes no sense.  They don't cling to this notion of 50% of revenue to payroll as you are doing here.  If they lose $50M in revenue, they have to cut $50M in cost to counteract the loss.   Show us a source that says they are assuming or projecting a total loss in TV revenue. 

    13 minutes ago, Woof Bronzer said:

     

    The Twins!  The Twins are suggesting that.  "We used to get $50m, now we get $0, so we gotta cut payroll by $25-$30mil."  If they factor in the future deal the "spend 50% of revenue" math doesn't work.   

    Just for fun, let's speculate the Twins will lose subscriber TV revenue because they plan on broadcasting the games to all fans over a free platform. 

    What would everyone want then, Twins broadcasts at no charge, or 25M more in payroll?

    3 minutes ago, Major League Ready said:

    What they have said is that they lost their contract.  That's very different than saying they expect to lose 100% of the revenue generated from TV.  Also, you are doing math that makes no sense.  They don't cling to this notion of 50% of revenue to payroll as you are doing here.  If they lose $50M in revenue, they have to cut $50M in cost to counteract the loss.   Show us a source that says they are assuming or projecting a total loss in TV revenue. 

    The Twins have always said they spent 50% of revenue on payroll. (Like you I doubt they spend that much, but it's what they say.)  Losing $50mil in revenue would then equate to a $25mil loss in payroll.  They're cutting $25m-$30m so the only way the math works is if they're factoring nothing for the new deal.  

    If they were figuring on a new deal worth $30 mil, or even the $40 ish mil that Bally offered a year ago but the Twins turned down, then what other lost revenue are they factoring in to arrive at a large cut?  Sure isn't from 2023 when they had 4 home playoff games!  

    5 minutes ago, nicksaviking said:

    What would everyone want then, Twins broadcasts at no charge, or 25M more in payroll?

    Excellent hypothetical!  I'll take the payroll since I'm primarily a radio listener :)  

    Where would you land?

    12 minutes ago, Major League Ready said:

    If they lose $50M in revenue, they have to cut $50M in cost to counteract the loss.

    They  don't. That $50M was 50% shared with the rest of MLB anyway so at most they're down $25M and that's if the new number is $0.

    8 minutes ago, Woof Bronzer said:

    Excellent hypothetical!  I'll take the payroll since I'm primarily a radio listener :)  

    Where would you land?

    There's only three free agent hitters I have any interest in, and I want them to trade for a young starter instead of signing an old one. So the payroll in my scenario was going to be low anyway, I'll take the free broadcasts.

    And re-evaluate next year.

    11 minutes ago, nicksaviking said:

    Just for fun, let's speculate the Twins will lose subscriber TV revenue because they plan on broadcasting the games to all fans over a free platform. 

    What would everyone want then, Twins broadcasts at no charge, or 25M more in payroll?

    If they offered games for free the ad revenue would skyrocket. Twins baseball would be the #1 rated show on TV locally all summer long. They can probably offer games for free and have nearly the same payroll. Vikings games get a share around 80. The Twins should be able to get a share of at least 30.

    28 minutes ago, nicksaviking said:

    Just for fun, let's speculate the Twins will lose subscriber TV revenue because they plan on broadcasting the games to all fans over a free platform. 

    What would everyone want then, Twins broadcasts at no charge, or 25M more in payroll?

    Broadcast TV would still pay the Twins to broadcast the games. The owners of Judge Judy get paid to air the program in syndicate.

    the question is what’s the Twins worth to whatever Tv station that wants to air them. Half the difference should be the payroll difference (up or down)

    18 minutes ago, DJL44 said:

    If they offered games for free the ad revenue would skyrocket. Twins baseball would be the #1 rated show on TV locally all summer long. They can probably offer games for free and have nearly the same payroll. Vikings games get a share around 80. The Twins should be able to get a share of at least 30.

    A 30 share of 5 nights a week for 27 weeks, plus 1 day per week for 27 weeks. That’s lotta eyeballs. No matter what, their revenue isn’t dropping $50m, and they know it.

    1 hour ago, Major League Ready said:

    How do we know who shoulders what costs in the agreement between Bally and a team?  I have no idea so I am not even remotely suggesting you're wrong.  I am just wondering if this is documented somewhere. 

    Agreed, I have no idea either. That’s why cost is so hard to discuss like this.

    In addition to the many insightful comments I considered the following.

    One tangential issue I was struck by as I read thru comments….  The Twins effectively had a $133M payroll last year if you subtract the unforced errors of Gallo $11M and Vázquez $10M.  
     

    Ownership may have looked at the rather dismal FO history with middle market FA signings and said no mas`.  Last years complementary player acquisitions were largely successful as well as typical of this FO.  Farmer and Taylor as trades, Castro via waivers, and Solano from the bargain bin of FAs.  Falvine seems to be fairly good at finding excess value in these channels.  They have also been fairly successful in most of their major trades such as Odorizzi, Maeda, Gray, Lopez, Ryan, and probably Paddock and Pagan to name a few. Mahle stands out as an exception.  They have a good record with finding future major leaguers in the draft and International free agency.
     

    Mid and upper market FA spending has brought them “gems” like Gallo, Vazquez, Bundy, Colome, and Odorizzi on a qualifying offer just to name a few.  Their 2 mega contracts have been Correa and Buxton which have not been disasters but would be stretch to call successful thus far.   It would not have been unreasonable for the Pohlads to take stock of their FO and simply directed them to stick to their core skills rather than blow $15-$25M per winter on ineffective FAs.  
     

    This not articulated as well as I would have liked but hopefully conveys the point

    Edited by Wizard11
    Clarity
    3 minutes ago, Wizard11 said:

    It would not have been unreasonable for the Pohlads to take stock of their FO and simply directed them to stick to their core skills rather than blow $15-$25M per winter on ineffective FAs.  

    If I didn't trust my POBO to buy free agents I would FIRE him.

    3 hours ago, DJL44 said:

    You left out the ad money. Subscriber money should be the smaller piece of the pie.

    I'm not leaving it out, but how much ad revenue can you generate if your maximum audience is 500K people (assume 2 per home on average)? And even if you lower the subscription fee to $100/year, I'm not convinced you would 250K to sign up for it. You will still need to be available on OTA/Cable/streaming services in some form to as many people as possible. Otherwise you are going in the wrong direction on getting the games available more people.

    6 minutes ago, howeda7 said:

    I'm not leaving it out, but how much ad revenue can you generate if your maximum audience is 500K people (assume 2 per home on average)? And even if you lower the subscription fee to $100/year, I'm not convinced you would 250K to sign up for it. You will still need to be available on OTA/Cable/streaming services in some form to as many people as possible. Otherwise you are going in the wrong direction on getting the games available more people.

    Someone suggested that Bally's does not pay for any of the production cost.  If that's true, and they were willing to pay $50M for broadcast rights, they forecasted add revenues of $50M + their operating costs and profit.

    10 minutes ago, Major League Ready said:

    Someone suggested that Bally's does not pay for any of the production cost.  If that's true, and they were willing to pay $50M for broadcast rights, they forecasted add revenues of $50M + their operating costs and profit.

    I'm not sure I follow you on this. Bally's gets a monthly amount per subscriber from every cable/satellite subscriber in the Twins territory that carries them (DirecTV/Comcast etc.) The last # I saw was there still 1.2 million homes with Bally Sports North, though I'm sure it's lower by now. They get anywhere from $5-10/month I've heard (DirecTV adds like $7 to my bill so I assume they get at least that much). That is the biggest chunk of their revenue (and the Twins make up about 40% of that value with the rest the Wolves/Wild/Other). The ad revenue from Twins games is a much smaller slice.

    Also, while Dick Bremer and Morneau etc. were/are paid by the Twins, I believe BSN was bearing the cost of equipment, camera crews, producers etc. I'm not 100% sure on that though.

     

     

    The payroll reduction is a slap in the face of sorts to Twins fans.  The fact that they also axed a few veteran long term scouts is even more interesting in cost reduction.  To me this ownership group and Front Office are not that great at planning.  This Bally Sports RN has been brewing for over two years.  This is not a new phenomenon.  So why did they commit 33 mil pee year to Correa and 17 million a year to the oft injured Buxton.  That will make up nearly 40% of payroll for the next 5 years or so.  Very strange.  

    On 11/30/2023 at 3:40 PM, Reptevia said:

    They were trying to reduce expectations to soften the blow when it ends up being $120M. I think that may be the ceiling. I know I’m in the minority on here, but we’ll see…

    Sure, I agree, they were just lowering expectations so they can justify a lack of activity. W/o announcing they look pretty foolish not making any moves.

    A 15% reduction in payroll would be pretty steep and that takes us down to $132M total. If we move Polanco we’re presently at a level of $114M……….this leaves room for a FA starter in the $13M range. Lugo seems lowest risk - best value to me.

    For about the 10th time in last month, I gotta suggest trading with Milwaukee for Devin Williams. Their set-up guy could close for them & they want controllable prospects & salary reduction. Their rookie 2B was not great last year…….let them try Gordon there and in LF as needed. Gordon - Rodriguez - Festa for Williams & our Pen is elite for next 2 years. Varland focuses on being depth guy for rotation.

     

    4 hours ago, howeda7 said:

    I'm not sure I follow you on this. Bally's gets a monthly amount per subscriber from every cable/satellite subscriber in the Twins territory that carries them (DirecTV/Comcast etc.) The last # I saw was there still 1.2 million homes with Bally Sports North, though I'm sure it's lower by now. They get anywhere from $5-10/month I've heard (DirecTV adds like $7 to my bill so I assume they get at least that much). That is the biggest chunk of their revenue (and the Twins make up about 40% of that value with the rest the Wolves/Wild/Other). The ad revenue from Twins games is a much smaller slice.

    Also, while Dick Bremer and Morneau etc. were/are paid by the Twins, I believe BSN was bearing the cost of equipment, camera crews, producers etc. I'm not 100% sure on that though.

     

     

    This is why I qualified the statement with if this is true.  Richie and I were discussing the difficulty of trying to discuss this when we know so little about the costs associated and who was responsible for those costs (Twins or Bally's)  However, within your response you have pointed out an important difference between the Twins or MLB in covering costs.  That's that the cost of personnel and equipment is allocated to other sports in the off-season.   




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