Sano sitting for a few days after how he handled himself hitting homerun

[twinsnorth49]

Maybe, maybe not. I won't deny it's a lot of speculation, but in my experience most humble, soft-spoken, "aw shucks" types are not lining up to be "the guy". Just not in his personality. Which isn't a slight against him, but I'd like some guys on the Sano end of the spectrum too.

 

I disagree and my experience has been quite the opposite. The hockey world is full of them, including the captain of the most recent Stanley Cup champions.

 

I do agree that a team is better off with a mix of those personalities however.

[TheLeviathan]

I disagree and my experience has been quite the opposite. The hockey world is full of them, including the captain of the most recent Stanley Cup champions.

 

I do agree that a team is better off with a mix of those personalities however.

 

I think hockey and baseball are apples and oranges. I'd say hockey is a unique sport in tht regard.

[twinsnorth49]

I think hockey and baseball are apples and oranges. I'd say hockey is a unique sport in tht regard.

 

As far as the type of game, sure, but effective leadership traits are analogous in all team sports.

[Hugh Morris]

Jeff Smith is (supposed to be) the adult in this situation and he needs to get control of this. If it's necessary they should move Sano to Rochester before they lose all control of young Mr. Sano. This is the point in his career where his attitude is set. This does not seem like it's going we'll at all.

 

I'm not sure what you expect Jeff Smith to do to get control of this. A player behaved in a manner which was viewed as disrespectful and unacceptable from the top of the organization (Ryan) to the bottom (teammates and base coaches in the minors). I've yet to see a single account where Jeff Smith yelled at, screamed at, or publicly berated Sano. Everything I've seen said he talked with him, was displeased at the content of the conversation, had him talk with Ryan, and was given permission to suspend him.

 

Let's not lose sight of this: Unless you're intent on seeing the Twins Organization as relentlessly anti-fun (there is some evidence to that view, I'm just not sure it's here), it doesn't appear Sano was suspended for pimping his home run. From my point of view, it looks like he was suspended for telling his manager (and possibly the GM) to pound sand. That'll earn you discipline in any organization-whether in sports or outside of it.

[Hugh Morris]

I'm a little lost here-is this the Mauer that shows no emotion ever?

 

This is the same Mauer who took over pitchers meetings as a 21 year old rookie. The same Mauer who showed the veteran leadership that so many people claim he lacks when Buxton was in town for BP immediately after signing (Minnesota Twins Joe Mauer ignores critics and extends his career - ESPN The Magazine - ESPN):

[buxton] stood near the dugout, not entirely sure where to be or how to act. Mauer quietly motioned him into the dugout, down the stairs and into the cocoon of the tunnel, away from the glad-handers and grandstanders. Mauer handed him a pair of batting gloves and one of his bats. After dispensing some advice regarding the logistics of BP, Mauer told him to take a breath and take in the moment. Buxton's nervousness was obvious in his eyes. Perhaps seeing his past in Buxton's present, Mauer sent the young man onto the field

by saying, "Just remember: Relax and have fun."

 

I occasionally have to remind myself that I'm a fan of a sport in which I have 95% or so of the knowledge about what's happening on the field during a televised game, and am relying on leaks, speculation and quotes from people with agendas for everything else. Much like in politics, those who don't aggressively engage in the media game are ignored (or, when your talent is too extreme for media to stay completely away, are undercovered) at best, and more commonly are used as rosarch tests.

[D. Hocking]

I have no idea what is going on in the clubhouse, but I agree I think largely whoever the local media presents as the club house leader is the one who gives them the quotes. Mauer goes out of his way to give the most bland quotes possible. Although the local media makes it easy for him by asking him the same questions every time, so it is easy for him to supply one of his canned answers. I have noticed the most interesting interviews or articles about him are by some national writer who goes outside the box in the interviewing and ask him different questions and getting quotes about him from different people. Some Perkins quotes in the last year or so have actually fleshed him out a bit more.

 

That said, I do think a mixture of personalities is good. You don't want 25 Mauer clones or 25 Sano clones personality wise.

[rnw24]

Does anyone know when Sano is supposed to be back in the lineup? I'm supposed to be making the trip to New Britain on Tuesday but I'm not going to take the ride if he isn't going to be in the lineup. (I apologize if the answer is already posted, but I don't feel like looking thru all 10 pages).

 

P.S. this benching is a bunch of crap!!!

[Brock Beauchamp]

I'm surprised at how many people think it's okay for a 20 year old kid to yip back at a coach when told that what he did was unprofessional. I don't care how much talent a guy has, he still has to listen to his coaches and management. That's just how things work in... well, pretty much everywhere.

 

It's one thing to grandstand after a long homer. It was a mistake but it's the type of thing kids do when they're talented and young. What I find far more problematic is that he was spoken to in private and apparently didn't listen to what was said to him. That should be the story here and a minor leaguer that talks back to his coach should be benched 101% of the time. He's not above the game, he's not above his teammates, and he's sure as hell not above his coaches. It sounds to me like the Twins did exactly what should have been done here.

[TheLeviathan]

As far as the type of game, sure, but effective leadership traits are analogous in all team sports.

 

I completely disagree. The physicality and ability to constantly impact offense and defense makes leadership during games much differrnt. Earlier I specifically used a game situation because I'm not sure how his leadership works behind closed doors (where I agree the skills are more universal) but mid game leadership couldn't look more different by the nature of the games. Hockey needs physicality, heart, and work ethic. Baseball you have to want to be the guy that has to get the hit, face the pressure under a one on one spotlight, and do it yourself.

 

IMO - totally different as the game dictates.

[JB_Iowa]

Per LEN3 (citing Rob Antony), Sano will be back in the line-up tonight for NB.

 

Let's hope we can all move on from here.

[jokin]

I completely disagree. The physicality and ability to constantly impact offense and defense makes leadership during games much differrnt. Earlier I specifically used a game situation because I'm not sure how his leadership works behind closed doors (where I agree the skills are more universal) but mid game leadership couldn't look more different by the nature of the games. Hockey needs physicality, heart, and work ethic. Baseball you have to want to be the guy that has to get the hit, face the pressure under a one on one spotlight, and do it yourself.

 

IMO - totally different as the game dictates.

 

Did the Twins have anything close to resembling a Jack Morris, Kirby Puckett or Dan Gladden in any of the playoff series in the 00s?

[jokin]

I'm surprised at how many people think it's okay for a 20 year old kid to yip back at a coach when told that what he did was unprofessional. I don't care how much talent a guy has, he still has to listen to his coaches and management. That's just how things work in... well, pretty much everywhere.

 

It's one thing to grandstand after a long homer. It was a mistake but it's the type of thing kids do when they're talented and young. What I find far more problematic is that he was spoken to in private and apparently didn't listen to what was said to him. That should be the story here and a minor leaguer that talks back to his coach should be benched 101% of the time. He's not above the game, he's not above his teammates, and he's sure as hell not above his coaches. It sounds to me like the Twins did exactly what should have been done here.

 

Has anybody said that his behavior is OK? The big issues I've seen are that cultural and language differences, coupled with a problematic brew of Sano's uber-talent and ego in a 20 year old immature body- can easily lead to inevitably predictable problems.

 

Any AA prospect, no matter the age or talent level, is ever going to win a test of wills with management, especially with the apparent insubordinate behavior being indefensible. The onus is still on the adults in the room to defuse and resolve the current situation, obviate future potential situations and come to solutions that ends up making Sano a better man for it- on and off the field, and helping to make him a better asset to future Twins success.

 

It appears that, hopefully, Ryan has provided strong Tough Love, yet let Sano be fully aware of the team's Unconditional Love in the immediate situation, and can put in a better system and more diverse personnel to anticipate future insubordination and team rule violation problems that might arise from some youth/cultural/language barriers.

[Thrylos]

What I find far more problematic is that he was spoken to in private and apparently didn't listen to what was said to him.

 

I have not seen a single piece of information that says that this is what happened.

 

Please let me know if you see one. Otherwise I think that it is propaganda BS

[Brock Beauchamp]

I have not seen a single piece of information that says that this is what happened.

 

Please let me know if you see one. Otherwise I think that it is propaganda BS

 

StarTribune.com Mobile | News, weather, sports

[Hugh Morris]

I have not seen a single piece of information that says that this is what happened.

 

Please let me know if you see one. Otherwise I think that it is propaganda BS

 

I'm curious at the idea of "Information that doesn't comport with my assumptions must be propaganda", but:Twins need a coach from Latin America, pronto | StarTribune.com

When confronted over this by Smith, notorious in the Twins' system as a hard-nosed manager,

Sano basically told Smith that he would do what he chose after hitting home runs.

Ryan also had another team employee talk to Sano. Apparently, Sano's response was not satisfactory to the Twins. So, the No. 3 overall prospect in the minor leagues sits at Jeff Smith's discretion.

 

Unless Reusse's in on the coverup?

 

and can put in a better system and more diverse personnel to anticipate future insubordination and team rule violation problems that might arise from some youth/cultural/language barriers.

 

I'm curious what cultural barrier you see at play when Sano tells his manager that he'll do what he wants when he homers.

[nicksaviking]

I don't think most people think Sano should not have been punished. I think the issue is the severity. At some point does the humbling lesson turn into a bridge burning dust up?

[drjim]

I don't think most people think Sano should not have been punished. I think the issue is the severity. At some point does the humbling lesson turn into a bridge burning dust up?

 

Are people really this paranoid about this situation? How he can't wait to leave, his agent might be calling around, etc.

[drjim]

I don't like citing Killerbrew, Thome, Ortiz as a defense if this action. Sano is a long way to being a hall of famer.

[drjim]

I thought Ryan addressed this perfectly on 1500 today. He went out of his wAy to praise Sano's makeup and stress tht they love his swagger. Just went too far this one time was the jist of it. Really an excellent response.

 

I'll second this. It was a great interview and provided some organizational context.

 

My thought is Ryan was probably the calm one, Molitor probably would have been even more strenuous in his response.

[twinsnorth49]

I completely disagree. The physicality and ability to constantly impact offense and defense makes leadership during games much differrnt. Earlier I specifically used a game situation because I'm not sure how his leadership works behind closed doors (where I agree the skills are more universal) but mid game leadership couldn't look more different by the nature of the games. Hockey needs physicality, heart, and work ethic. Baseball you have to want to be the guy that has to get the hit, face the pressure under a one on one spotlight, and do it yourself.

IMO - totally different as the game dictates.

 

Just because the physical nature of the games differ, does not make the situations any different. Wanting to be the guy is the same thing, down by a run with 2 outs in the 9th, you want to be the guy at the plate, down by a goal with less than a minute to play, you want to be on the ice, down by a TD late in the 4th quarter, you want to have the ball in your hands. These are all one in the same, it's mental, not physical.

 

Great leaders relish the challenge, they don't always succeed, I think Mauer is likely one of those guys, he's too good an athlete not to be.

[jokin]

I'm curious at the idea of "Information that doesn't comport with my assumptions must be propaganda", but:Twins need a coach from Latin America, pronto | StarTribune.com

When confronted over this by Smith, notorious in the Twins' system as a hard-nosed manager,

Sano basically told Smith that he would do what he chose after hitting home runs.

Ryan also had another team employee talk to Sano. Apparently, Sano's response was not satisfactory to the Twins. So, the No. 3 overall prospect in the minor leagues sits at Jeff Smith's discretion.

 

Unless Reusse's in on the coverup?

 

Originally Posted by jonkin

and can put in a better system and more diverse personnel to anticipate future insubordination and team rule violation problems that might arise from some youth/cultural/language barriers.

 

I'm curious what cultural barrier you see at play when Sano tells his manager that he'll do what he wants when he homers.

 

This is jokin, not jonkin. A reporter related one version of whatever events transpired, from a manager with a well-documented history of players chafing and rebelling under his leadership style. I wonder if the reporter even tried to get Sano's reaction, was refused by Sano, or was not allowed to get a comment from Sano (through a translator) by Twins management. Miguel Sano is only 20, in a foreign culture, and can barely speak a string of English phrases, let alone maintain a meaningful ongoing conversation in the language.

 

There's no doubt in my mind that he has made youthful mistakes of immaturity in this particular matter. Whatever may or may not have transpired with Lanigan, in Sano's state of mind and youthful immaturity, regaining whatever respect that he may have perceived was lost in that tempetuous tete-a-tete with Lanigan may be more important culturally to him than a manager saying he can't do it that way (just speculation on my part). Plus, playing with a cocky and one-upsmanship style is the way Dominicans play the game in the DR. Most quickly learn to adapt to behavioral norms deemed acceptable in American baseball- Miguel is apparently still learning what is and isn't acceptable. The part with Jeff Smith could easily be a language-barrier-cultural-divide-related misunderstanding. As a former coach myself, I've seen, witnessed and learned to adapt my methodology for disciplinary action about such differences in real time.

 

I'm not worried about Sano, Terry Ryan has gone on record about what a wonderful person he is. This could end up being the best thing for him and for the organization- especially if Ryan identifies the new reality for the Twins is being very proactive in insuring that a bushelful of very young and highly talented foreign-born players end up all on the same page with the native-born players on the Twins roster. The coming years are clearly going to be a vastly different scenario than merely trying to keep the likes of Alexi Casilla, Juan Castro and Henry Blanco happy. It sounds like they have a program at Fort Myers for cultural immersion and language training, that's a good start. An ongoing support outreach, including a former professional big league Latin-born player as a coach or manager at each stop in the minors would be a good next step.

[nicksaviking]

Are people really this paranoid about this situation? How he can't wait to leave, his agent might be calling around, etc.

 

After what happened with Arizona's top prospect Trevor Bauer last year, it should probably at least be in the back of the front office's mind.

 

I don't like citing Killerbrew, Thome, Ortiz as a defense if this action. Sano is a long way to being a hall of famer.

 

I don't believe there is anyone here who thinks Sano should get special treatment for being a special prospect. Yet this implies that if he ends up being a HOF'er his actions should be excused.

[howieramone1406390264]

After what happened with Arizona's top prospect Trevor Bauer last year, it should probably at least be in the back of the front office's mind.

 

 

 

I don't believe there is anyone here who thinks Sano should get special treatment for being a special prospect. Yet this implies that if he ends up being a HOF'er his actions should be excused.

I'm on pretty safe ground by stating multiple posters felt Sano should get special treatment. Brock's 2nd to the last post, did a good job of providing some perspective on this matter. If Sano ends up in the HOF, I would guess the incident is deleted from his personnel file.

[TheLeviathan]

Just because the physical nature of the games differ, does not make the situations any different.

 

Great leaders relish the challenge, they don't always succeed, I think Mauer is likely one of those guys, he's too good an athlete not to be.

 

Well, I think your first point I took out here is wrong. The second, I agree with. I don't disagree Mauer likes a challenge. And, by the way, this is no slight on Mauer. I think Pujols is similar in demeanor.

 

But since you want to use hockey, let's talk analogy. The cup winners this year had a captain by the name of Jonathan Toews. I think we can agree Mauer and Toews are similar players in terms of demeanor and personality. Toews makes a fantastic captain for the very reasons Mauer would in hockey - outstanding work ethic, team-first guy, willing to do the little things, humble, and speaks with his actions more than his words. Toews is the guy that is grinding and working and setting the tone with all of those qualities. It makes for an excellent leader. In baseball, those qualities are not on display mid-game nearly as much. (Dramatically reduced by comparison) But they show up off the field - which is where I think Mauer is an outstanding leader.

 

But.....he's not often the guy that is the finisher, that wants the spotlight, that isn't afraid to be brash. In this case, I'm talking a guy like Patrick Kane. Here's a guy that relishes being the one that puts the boot to the throat. The Jeter/Sano/Pierzynski/Holliday/Brian Wilson type that craves the spotlight and wants to lead more than in the background, but wants to be the man that buries the puck the final time just so he can have the glory and the last laugh.

 

That's what Sano is that Mauer isn't. That's what the Twins need more of IMO. And, hopefully, this analogy shows you that I'm not slighting Mauer at all, it's just not in his make-up as a person to be Kane. He's Toews - which is still pretty friggin awesome. But I LOVE seeing our own Kane coming up through the minors.

[drjim]

After what happened with Arizona's top prospect Trevor Bauer last year, it should probably at least be in the back of the front office's mind.

 

These strike me as quite different. Bauer had preparation and performance concerns. Sano has never been accused of this - in fact quite the opposite.

[Badsmerf]

What I find troublesome is that some are insinuating that Sano will become disgruntled with being disciplined. Really? He isn't Manny Ramirez, and even Manny dealt with disciplines at the MLB level during his career. He is a 20 yo kid from Latin America. I'm pretty sure he knows what discipline is and how to handle it. The Twins have been pretty good to him, I don't think he is going to turn on them because he missed a few games. I was fine with a simple day off after the little HR stunt, but once the mouthing off part came out, it really put this into context. Again, this is a 20 yo being dismissive to the GM of the Twins. Not acceptable. There is no way any adult here (out of college) would accept this in their workplace, baseball is still real life.

[John Bonnes]

What I find troublesome is that some are insinuating that Sano will become disgruntled with being disciplined. Really? He isn't Manny Ramirez, and even Manny dealt with disciplines at the MLB level during his career. He is a 20 yo kid from Latin America. I'm pretty sure he knows what discipline is and how to handle it. The Twins have been pretty good to him, I don't think he is going to turn on them because he missed a few games. I was fine with a simple day off after the little HR stunt, but once the mouthing off part came out, it really put this into context. Again, this is a 20 yo being dismissive to the GM of the Twins. Not acceptable. There is no way any adult here (out of college) would accept this in their workplace, baseball is still real life.

 

I agree, but there is a giant elephant in the room - Sano's value. It isn't terribly unusual in a company to have the "talent" report to someone who is a fraction of the value to the organization. And the talent needs to respect that person as the mouthpiece of the organization.

 

But when things get really ugly, the company is going to side with the asset, because they have to. Sano is literally worth tens of millions of dollars right now. With the possible exception of Terry Ryan, no other person in the Twins is worth that much. What is alarming is that he pushed the issue. Maybe he felt it was because an injustice was done or he felt really strongly about something, so maybe it was somewhat justified, but the alarming part is that someone with as much clout as he pushed back.

 

It's a goofy analogy, but there was a Twilight Zone episode where a kid had unlimited power, and so everyone was very careful about how they treated him. People worry about Sano's reaction because you worry about someone with that much clout.

[TheLeviathan]

It's a goofy analogy, but there was a Twilight Zone episode where a kid had unlimited power, and so everyone was very careful about how they treated him. People worry about Sano's reaction because you worry about someone with that much clout.

 

I believe a similar boy dictated "Bonerland" was founded by "some guy". Ah good satire, how I miss thee.

[nicksaviking]

These strike me as quite different. Bauer had preparation and performance concerns. Sano has never been accused of this - in fact quite the opposite.

 

I don't think it was a performance issue, I think it was his insistance to do things how he wanted to do them. AZ ended up shipping him off because he didn't fit their ideal which has been reported as players who fit into the Kurt Gibson mold.

 

That mold is basically the Twins model. Obviously both teams would take talent and hard work if they came in the same package, but they seem to prefer gritty hard nosed players over God-given talent.

[howieramone1406390264]

I don't think it was a performance issue, I think it was his insistance to do things how he wanted to do them. AZ ended up shipping him off because he didn't fit their ideal which has been reported as players who fit into the Kurt Gibson mold.

 

That mold is basically the Twins model. Obviously both teams would take talent and hard work if they came in the same package, but they seem to prefer gritty hard nosed players over God-given talent.

There is absolutely no evidence that this is true.