Sano sitting for a few days after how he handled himself hitting homerun

[Beezer07]

Why is it that a professional athlete, or even a college athlete, is considered "a kid," but a 20-year old in some normal walk of life, say, guy who works in an office and gets in a bar fight, isn't considered a kid? Just a pet peeve of mine...

[PseudoSABR]

Why is it that a professional athlete, or even a college athlete, is considered "a kid," but a 20-year old in some normal walk of life, say, guy who works in an office and gets in a bar fight, isn't considered a kid? Just a pet peeve of mine...

I think lots of people view them both as kids. Though, the whole legal adulthood thing gets in the way of how things shake out in the normal world.

[Steven Buhr]

jokin, I don't think I've indicated anything is "pre-determined," unless nothing that a player does prior to his debut with the Twins counts for anything. If his behavior in this area doesn't change, he's not going to be a guy I have any particular affinity for. If the behavior changes by the time he's a Twin, terrific. I'd love to see that kind of maturity. But based on the three instances that I know of in roughly the past 12 months' time, I wouldn't bet money on it. It doesn't mean I won't cheer him on. Hell, I cheered for AJ when he was a Twin and that's just one example of many players I didn't particularly like, but had no qualms about rooting for when they wore a Twins uniform. Guess I never realized that was an extreme position.

[Nick Nelson]

Haven't seen this linked here yet (apologies if I missed it). Reusse's column today sheds some additional light on the situation, and it's not good.

 

Twins need a coach from Latin America, pronto | StarTribune.com

 

The identity of the pitcher had much to do with the extra pizazz Sano put into Tuesday's home run reaction. When confronted over this by Jeff Smith, the hard-nosed manager the Twins employ at New Britain, Sano basically told Smith that he would do what he choose after hitting home runs.

 

General Manager Terry Ryan was watching New Britain. He talked to Sano after the game and didn't get a satisfactory response.

 

 

Smith was given the go ahead to remove Sano from the lineup ... and who knows when the hard-headed future star and the hard-headed journeyman manager are going to solve their differences.

 

[Steven Buhr]

I think some of you are also misrepresenting Killebrew. Sure it took him a few seconds to get the wheels turning when he hit a HR. But it took him almost that long to get out of the box when he hit a single!

[jokin]

Haven't seen this linked here yet (apologies if I missed it). Reusse's column today sheds some additional light on the situation, and it's not good.

 

Twins need a coach from Latin America, pronto | StarTribune.com

 

"Hard-headed future star" vs. "Hard-headed journeyman manager". On most clubs, it's obvious who wins that battle. In the MN Twins organization?, not so much.

 

I was calling for the Twins to have hired Ivan Rodriguez for the last 2 years. I think he'd set Sano and some of the other Latin ballplayers straight right quick, indeed. What's Omar Vizquel doing these days?

[Alex]

Haven't seen this linked here yet (apologies if I missed it). Reusse's column today sheds some additional light on the situation, and it's not good.

 

Twins need a coach from Latin America, pronto | StarTribune.com

 

I hope we're all getting more from the article than just more details on why Sano was benched.

 

Those details were included but it certainly was not the point of the article, IMO.

 

The organization has benched it's three best Latin American players recently and includes just one coach from that part of the world in its entire organization.

[jokin]

jokin, I don't think I've indicated anything is "pre-determined," unless nothing that a player does prior to his debut with the Twins counts for anything. If his behavior in this area doesn't change, he's not going to be a guy I have any particular affinity for. If the behavior changes by the time he's a Twin, terrific. I'd love to see that kind of maturity. But based on the three instances that I know of in roughly the past 12 months' time, I wouldn't bet money on it. It doesn't mean I won't cheer him on. Hell, I cheered for AJ when he was a Twin and that's just one example of many players I didn't particularly like, but had no qualms about rooting for when they wore a Twins uniform. Guess I never realized that was an extreme position.

 

Thankyou. Your softening stance and additional qualifying information makes your original quote sound less extreme- additional context always helps clear the air!

 

The current situation with the Twins and Sano seems very resolvable with a little agent intervention and with the Twins hiring more coaches in the system with Dominican or at worst Latin American backgrounds.

 

(Also, thanks for all the work and information you provide to the community regarding the Midwest League.)

[jokin]

I hope we're all getting more from the article than just more details on why Sano was benched.

 

That was included but it certainly was not the point, IMO.

 

The organization has benched it's three best Latin American players recently and includes just one coach from that part of the world in its entire organization.

 

Amen, brother.

[maxisagod]

...

I was calling for them the Twins to have hire Ivan Rodriguez for the last 2 years. I think he'd set Sano and some of the other Latin ballplayers straight right quick, indeed.

 

I think this is the most constructive comment you've made on this thread. One of the ways to future reach out to our Latin prospects (which seem to make up 50% of our top minor leaguers now) would be to hire more mangers and coaches at the minor and major league level. Having a David Ortiz type as your 1st base or bench coach on the Twins would help with a cultural and language wall. unfortunately they don't have that right now and Sano needs to learn that isn't always going to be available for him. That why he's working hard to learn English. The cultural challenges of playing Baseball in the USA I'm sure will be the focus on the next movie made about him.

[Steven Buhr]

I hadn't seen Reusse's column, Nick, thanks for the link.

 

I think the point of the column is well taken. The Twins have needed more Latin American coaches for years and it is well past time to add one to the Twins' staff. I know a number of us have been writing that for years.

 

My understanding is that Jeff Smith has never been all that popular with a lot of players, regardless of nationality. Even so, if the report of Sano's response to Smith is accurate, there is no rationalizing flat out insubordination. No player... not even a Miguel Sano... can be allowed to be seen as being above being disciplined. You'll lose your entire clubhouse if that's allowed.

[nicksaviking]

I think lots of people view them both as kids. Though, the whole legal adulthood thing gets in the way of how things shake out in the normal world.

 

Right, I'm pretty sure most people older than 30 consider people from 18 to their early 20's as kids. Sorry to stereotype, but it's difficult to have an adult conversation with many of them and their behavior in public when around alcohol too often warrent this consideration.

[LimestoneBaggy]

Haven't seen this linked here yet (apologies if I missed it). Reusse's column today sheds some additional light on the situation, and it's not good.

 

Twins need a coach from Latin America, pronto | StarTribune.com

 

Apart from the potential need for more Latin American coaches (which sounds like a good idea), reading this article made me sad. If it's accurate, it's one thing to pimp some home runs, but its quite another to go up against the manager and the GM. Ouch.

[Steven Buhr]

"Hard-headed future star" vs. "Hard-headed journeyman manager". On most clubs, it's obvious who wins that battle. In the MN Twins organization?, not so much.

 

I was calling for the Twins to have hired Ivan Rodriguez for the last 2 years. I think he'd set Sano and some of the other Latin ballplayers straight right quick, indeed. What's Omar Vizquel doing these days?

 

I say put Ozzie Guillen on the Twins coaching staff. If fans aren't going to get to see good baseball, at the very least we deserve to be entertained!

[John Bonnes]

For those who say this is no big deal or that the Twins are overreacting - I'd say watch the video. It is apparent how appalled people (his first base coach and teammates) are by him him standing and posing and flipping. It's not just that he flipped the bat.

 

He's 20. 20-year-olds do some stupid things. Discipline him lightly and move on. That seems appropriate.

 

Oh, and yes, the Twins could use some more Latin American coaches, I think. They seem to have gotten the message that international prospects are a market inefficiency. Now they need to figure out that fully taking advantage of that might mean reaching out to international coaches, too.

[Alex]

Right, I'm pretty sure most people older than 30 consider people from 18 to their early 20's as kids. Sorry to stereotype, but it's difficult to have an adult conversation with many of them and their behavior in public when around alcohol too often warrent this consideration.

 

Baseball (and most sports) don't treat them like adults either until they're late twenties vets. Parmelee and Dozier are still called "kids."

[Mike Sixel]

I hope we're all getting more from the article than just more details on why Sano was benched.

 

Those details were included but it certainly was not the point of the article, IMO.

 

The organization has benched it's three best Latin American players recently and includes just one coach from that part of the world in its entire organization.

 

I agree with the sentiment of this post. I think the Twins have a problem.

[JB_Iowa]

Thanks for the Reusse link, Nick. He makes some good points.

 

It also reminds me of the whole Miguel Cabrera saga. I was so glad he wasn't a Twin when he had the whole meltdown the final weekend in 2009 and again when he had the drunk driving incident in early 2011. But I also began to watch him more closely on the baseball field ... and began appreciating how very special he was as a player -- he became a favorite of mine before the 2012 MVP season. While I'm not equating Miggy's alcohol problems with all Latin players, Miggy's story also highlights some of the cultural differences.

 

The Twins took a great step into the international market. They need to have personnel in place all along the way to nurture that talent and those personalities .... not to think that they can turn them into clones of the Minnesota white boys.

[jokin]

I hadn't seen Reusse's column, Nick, thanks for the link.

 

I think the point of the column is well taken. The Twins have needed more Latin American coaches for years and it is well past time to add one to the Twins' staff. I know a number of us have been writing that for years.

 

My understanding is that Jeff Smith has never been all that popular with a lot of players, regardless of nationality. Even so, if the report of Sano's response to Smith is accurate, there is no rationalizing flat out insubordination. No player... not even a Miguel Sano... can be allowed to be seen as being above being disciplined. You'll lose your entire clubhouse if that's allowed.

 

To me, this is the money quote from the column:

 

"And Sano ... well, if this team is more concerned about creating excitement than guarding against service time, there's a chance he will open as the third baseman in 2014.

It's not out of the question that the Opening Day batting order could start like this: 1-Aaron Hicks. 2-Rosario. 3-Joe Mauer. 4-Sano. 5-Arcia.

 

Which means, this team is in greater need for a coach with a Latin American background on its big-league staff than ever before."

 

The information about the recent past issues with Lanigan (and the importance in the Latin culture for "respect"), plus the one-side-only Anglo-American recounted version of events, both illuminated upon in this article, tells me that the club needs to expand its cultural awareness concerning these young, high-talent-and-ego, foreign players. (Look at the Zimmerman-Martin trial as an example of how 2 different sides see the exact same set of circumstances with diametrically-opposed viewpoints----AND, how differently the Dominican players play the game in the DR and at the WBC).

[nicksaviking]

I hope we're all getting more from the article than just more details on why Sano was benched.

 

Those details were included but it certainly was not the point of the article, IMO.

 

The organization has benched it's three best Latin American players recently and includes just one coach from that part of the world in its entire organization.

 

It's tough, the Twins have long been thought of as a family that hires within it's ranks or recruits past employees. I'm sure the latin snub isn't intentional, but they don't seem to prefer much outside influence. They can't keep the Old Boys Club going forever hopefully.

[jokin]

Thanks for the Reusse link, Nick. He makes some good points.

 

It also reminds me of the whole Miguel Cabrera saga. I was so glad he wasn't a Twin when he had the whole meltdown the final weekend in 2009 and again when he had the drunk driving incident in early 2011. But I also began to watch him more closely on the baseball field ... and began appreciating how very special he was as a player -- he became a favorite of mine before the 2012 MVP season. While I'm not equating Miggy's alcohol problems with all Latin players, Miggy's story also highlights some of the cultural differences.

 

The Twins took a great step into the international market. They need to have personnel in place all along the way to nurture that talent and those personalities .... not to think that they can turn them into clones of the Minnesota white boys.

 

And it also shows that people can change their behavior, and that fans can change their previous negative perceptions about that player.

[PseudoSABR]

Sure would have been nice to have Rod Carew in the fold all these years...

[Mike Sixel]

It's tough, the Twins have long been thought of as a family that hires within it's ranks or recruits past employees. I'm sure the latin snub isn't intentional, but they don't seem to prefer much outside influence. They can't keep the Old Boys Club going forever hopefully.

 

It is very commone for privatlely held companies, especially those that go onto the next generation, to have problems with the old boy club. This is not uncommon at all in business. I guess we'll see over the next couple of years, but I think they are stuck in groupthink and way too isolated from new thinking. But maybe that's just an appearance, and they aren't....

[ericchri]

No Ozzie, please, that sideshow doesn't interest me. A name mentioned in the comments for the Reusse column was interesting though: Omar Vizquel. I'll take him to coach my infielders, please.

[jokin]

It's tough, the Twins have long been thought of as a family that hires within it's ranks or recruits past employees. I'm sure the latin snub isn't intentional, but they don't seem to prefer much outside influence. They can't keep the Old Boys Club going forever hopefully.

 

It may not be intentional, but it certainly is a blind spot that would have easily been discovered if the Twins would just have an outside consultant on retainer- to evaluate what "forest for the trees" details the club might be missing in terms of quality control and value-added additions in approach.

[DaveW]

If Sano is gonna be a punk about it to the manager,they should just let him do what he wants. Once he gets close o drilled in the head a time or two he will eventually learn. It's discouraging that he didnt show Ryan respect either, I love Sano and think he will special, but lets be honest, he hasn't done **** that matters yet.

 

If you become a star in the majors and have an attitude problem that is one thing, until that point just understand you haven't done **** yet and for every stud who makes it there is a Dallas McPherson and Brandon Wood who doesn't.

 

Very disappointed to hear he didnt give Ryan respect. Hopefully it's just an immaturity thing and this benching has reached him some humbleness. Then again, 20 year olds gonna be 20 from time to time, not worried yet....just aware.

[DaveW]

Also if you hate your AA manager you can do something about it...just kick ass and force your self to AAA and the Majors. Stick it to him that way, not by arguing with him. Actions speak louder than words etc etc etc etc

[Steven Buhr]

If I recall correctly, New Britain's hitting coach last year was Latino (or at least had a Latino surname and I made a possibily inaccurate assumption), but apparently was moved or let go in the offseason minor league managing/coaching reassignments.

[cmathewson]

Sure would have been nice to have Rod Carew in the fold all these years...

 

If Rod wanted to work that hard, he'd have been here for years. But he's retired.

[PseudoSABR]

If Rod wanted to work that hard, he'd have been here for years. But he's retired.

I always thought he ended up with the Angels organization in some fashion, as a roving coach or whatever, but maybe I'm misremembering. My point is that it would have been nice to have a continued to Latin presence within the organization...