Minnesota Twins’ Oswaldo Arcia, Chris Parmelee Creating Dilemma for Management

[Otto von Ballpark]

210 PAs scattered through half a season don't tell much of anything about a player.

Parmelee's on pace for 477 PA this year. Are you saying that his hitting will seriously suffer getting only 477 PA, as opposed to, say, 550?

 

And it's "jerking him around" to give him 20 PA a week, as opposed to, say, 24?

[Brock Beauchamp]

Parmelee's on pace for 477 PA this year. Are you saying that his hitting will seriously suffer getting only 477 PA, as opposed to, say, 550?

 

And it's "jerking him around" to give him 20 PA a week, as opposed to, say, 24?

 

No, he's on a pace to acquire a decent amount of PAs this season but for some reason, Gardy refuses to pencil him into the same position every day for a few weeks, something he hasn't seen in parts of three seasons. Give the kid a legit shot and see what happens.

 

Also, I said 15-20 PAs a week, not 20. And right now, Chris is averaging somewhere around 17 PAs a week.

[twinsnorth49]

I'm not sure what reality management has to accept. There is no one way to rebuild, the entire situation is very fluid, particularly at the trade deadline. Ryan may get lucky, or the deadline maybe just another day at the office. Rebuilding is a multi-year affair. IMO it's very difficult to draw conclusions, player by player or decision by decision.

n

I accept that, IMHO the next step in their rebuilding is to make the best effort to give players like Parmelee a full and complete chance to play. They may as well get what they can get for guys like Doumit and Willingham, I highly doubt it's going to get any better anyway.

[Brock Beauchamp]

Parmelee has started 49 of the Twins 72 games, or 68%. There are 6 players for the 4 spots Parmelee's eligible for. 7 if you include Mauer (I won't).

 

On a perfectly egalitarian team each of those guys would be sitting 1/3 of the time. Or, almost exactly as often as Parmelee has sat.

 

Sure, that works if you ignore the various injuries the Twins have seen (Willingham), the time other players were occupied playing non-Parmelee positions (Doumit), and the time some players weren't even on the roster (Arcia).

 

Not every one of those players has been or is available to play 1B, DH, or RF every night.

[Oxtung]

There's no reason not to expect him to develop, either. He showed pretty significant improvement in the upper minors, adding power to his already good plate discipline. His overall MiLB slash line is decent, though not jaw-dropping (.820 OPS). Over the past 55 days, his OPS is decent (around .770 OPS).

 

People need to understand that not every player is Oswaldo Arcia. If you're going to field a competitive team, you need to show some patience with the Trevor Plouffes and Chris Parmelees of the world or you'll never field a rounded roster. You need those complementary players to win and a team like the Twins can't afford to go out and spend $5-8m per player at 3-4 positions on the field.

 

They sure could for the next 6 years or so but they sure aren't going to.

[ThePuck]

They sure could for the next 6 years or so but they sure aren't going to.

 

I don't even get the math on that one. Why would 5-8M for 3-4 players be too much for the Twins to spend? That's, at most, 32M, right? That's not a lot. They can easily do that. We do more than 32M now for only two players. We have 3 position players making at least 7M right now.

[Brock Beauchamp]

They sure could for the next 6 years or so but they sure aren't going to.

 

Sure, they could do it but it rarely works out well for the buying team. Picking up league-average players is a real hit-or-miss enterprise.

 

And every dollar the Twins spend on league average guys is a dollar they won't spend on a solid free agent upgrade.

 

They might not spend that money anyway but hey, better not to spend it on league-average free agents if you can avoid it.

[Brock Beauchamp]

I don't even get the math on that one. Why would 5-8M for 3-4 players be too much for the Twins to spend? That's, at most, 32M, right? That's not a lot. They can easily do that. We do more than 32M now for only two players. We have 3 position players making at least 7M right now.

 

The point being that every dollar you spend on a mediocre free agent is a dollar you can't spend on a decent free agent to fill another hole.

 

What would you prefer, that the Twins have $30m to spend on a starting pitcher and two positions players or $30m to spend on a starting pitching and four position players?

 

Mid-market teams live and die by guys like Parmelee because it allows them to go spend the same amount of money on better players to fill fewer holes.

 

In theory. Of course, all of this is predicated on Ryan actually spending money.

[Oxtung]

The point being that every dollar you spend on a mediocre free agent is a dollar you can't spend on a decent free agent to fill another hole.

 

What would you prefer, that the Twins have $30m to spend on a starting pitcher and two positions players or $30m to spend on a starting pitching and four position players?

 

Mid-market teams live and die by guys like Parmelee because it allows them to go spend the same amount of money on better players to fill fewer holes.

 

In theory. Of course, all of this is predicated on Ryan actually spending money.

 

On that I agree. Don't bring in the dregs and hope. Go get real talent.

[diehardtwinsfan]

Sure, that works if you ignore the various injuries the Twins have seen (Willingham), the time other players were occupied playing non-Parmelee positions (Doumit), and the time some players weren't even on the roster (Arcia).

 

Not every one of those players has been or is available to play 1B, DH, or RF every night.

 

Honestly, I think they either need to DL Willingham now or sit him for 5 days or so for that knee to heal up. He isn't building any trade value playing every day and not hitting well.

[Willihammer]

Sure, that works if you ignore the various injuries the Twins have seen (Willingham), the time other players were occupied playing non-Parmelee positions (Doumit), and the time some players weren't even on the roster (Arcia).

 

Not every one of those players has been or is available to play 1B, DH, or RF every night.

 

Mauer is, I didn't include him. I also tossed out the handful of PAs Ramirez or Mastro took from him. He's had plenty of playing time. As another poster said, playing him 5/6 nights instead of 4/6 isn't going to push the needle very much either way.

[ThePuck]

The point being that every dollar you spend on a mediocre free agent is a dollar you can't spend on a decent free agent to fill another hole.

 

 

Ah, now that makes sense. I figured I was missing your point. My bad.

[Otto von Ballpark]

No, he's on a pace to acquire a decent amount of PAs this season but for some reason, Gardy refuses to pencil him into the same position every day for a few weeks, something he hasn't seen in parts of three seasons. Give the kid a legit shot and see what happens.

 

Also, I said 15-20 PAs a week, not 20. And right now, Chris is averaging somewhere around 17 PAs a week.

 

I was just estimating a 6 month season = 24 weeks = 480 PA at 20/week rate. But I should have added a couple weeks to be more accurate.

 

477 PA is nothing to sneeze at, when you are a corner player coming off a .671 OPS season and your current season OPS has been hovering around that mark for much of the first three months.

 

I mean, if he's got a .700 OPS now, on a 477 PA pace, what do you think his OPS could be with a 550 PA pace or whatever you think he should get? It's sort of like the people last year who said Dozier was rushed and that's why he hit so poorly -- but the dude had a .600 OPS. He was AWFUL. What could he realistically be expected to hit from the marginal benefit of a few more weeks at AAA? .620 OPS?

 

What I'm saying is, however much a 477 PA pace might be holding Parmelee back, it's got to be a marginal difference. If he's a major league hitter, you will know it from the results if he gets 477 PA for the season.

[Thrylos]

No, he's on a pace to acquire a decent amount of PAs this season but for some reason, Gardy refuses to pencil him into the same position every day for a few weeks, something he hasn't seen in parts of three seasons. Give the kid a legit shot and see what happens...

 

Gardenhire is horrible in doing this, on the other hand, once he kinda puts players in his little pigeonholes. Prime example: Alexi Casilla who has not seen consistent play since his age 23 season in 2008; and he is a player who has proven that he needed to play every day to produce. I think that Parmelee is such a player as well.

[Guest USAFChief]

Gardenhire is horrible in doing this, on the other hand, once he kinda puts players in his little pigeonholes. Prime example: Alexi Casilla who has not seen consistent play since his age 23 season in 2008; and he is a player who has proven that he needed to play every day to produce. I think that Parmelee is such a player as well.

Um, if he hasn't seen consistent play since 23, how did he prove he needed to play every day?

[Thrylos]

Um, if he hasn't seen consistent play since 23, how did he prove he needed to play every day?

 

by his performance when he got consecutive starting appearances (good to great) vs when he played sporadically (average to awful). Math is there to do the extrapolations...

[Richie the Rally Goat]

1) Parmelee had the same PT issues in 2012. This was one of the reasons a few of us really wanted to see him play every day in 2013. We figured we would see what we had.

2) Parmelee hasn't played every day in 2013. Arcia got called up quick and Parmelee ended up being the odd man out. I like Oswaldo, but he shouldn't be up at the expense of Parmelee.. He shouldn't have been called up at all when Hicks went down.

3) Like others said, this team needs to figure out what they have in him, and the won't do it playing him for a couple of weeks and then benching him. This, to me at least is a Gardy problem... and it's a Ryan problem in that he's allowed it to happen.

 

1) Can't agree more

2) Don't blame Arcia for earning the right to play. He's been the second best hitter on the team lately.

3) I blame TR more than Gardy. Gardy is trying to keep his job. TR hasn't forced the impetus for Gardy to play the youth... Yet... While the trade value may not currently be there for Morneau/Willingham it may come yet.

[stringer bell]

Um, if he hasn't seen consistent play since 23, how did he prove he needed to play every day?

 

Uh oh! Someone waved a red flag (Alexi Casilla!) in front of the Chief! BTW, Lexi hit his annual home run tonight, a three run bomb, in the Orioles 6-3 win over the Tribe.

[Kwak]

I think this problem won't be with us after July--someone will be traded, and all of those who are still clinging to "Division Race" or even the spurious .500 season will have seen the light.

 

Those who are quick to short-sell Parmalee should be reminded of Ortiz!

[jokin]

Uh oh! Someone waved a red flag (Alexi Casilla!) in front of the Chief! BTW, Lexi hit his annual home run tonight, a three run bomb, in the Orioles 6-3 win over the Tribe.

 

...Someone who is keeping careful notes (I confess to the same habit)....

[jokin]

Gardenhire is horrible in doing this, on the other hand, once he kinda puts players in his little pigeonholes. Prime example: Alexi Casilla who has not seen consistent play since his age 23 season in 2008; and he is a player who has proven that he needed to play every day to produce. I think that Parmelee is such a player as well.

 

Sorry Thrylos, Casilla has to go down in Twins history as one of the All-Time greatest teases. As good as he looked in sporadic flashes, especially in the field, Lexi pretty much ended up bungling every long-term starting job he ever was assigned to on the Twins.

[jokin]

Uh oh! Someone waved a red flag (Alexi Casilla!) in front of the Chief! BTW, Lexi hit his annual home run tonight, a three run bomb, in the Orioles 6-3 win over the Tribe.

 

Brian Roberts started his rehab assignment in Norfolk last night, Lexi is just being Lexi, putting his annual sporadic push on in his usual attempt to appear to be "just good enough" to keep his roster spot.