Scholarship expiring?

[ThePuck]

He doesn't burn a year of anything. We're well past the cutoff for adding a year of service time. Hell, we're past the Super 2 deadline. There is no service time or financial argument to be made at this point.

 

And why won't 5-7 MLB starts provide any value? Gibson can use the experience and the rotation has been mostly awful again this year.

 

Get the kid prepared for 2014 and that's one less free agent the team has to sign in the offseason.

 

exactly!

[DaveW]

Get the kid prepared for 2014 and that's one less free agent the team has to sign in the offseason.

They are going to pencil Gibson into the 2014 rotation regardless.

[stringer bell]

Then there's no point in bringing him up this year. He won't provide any value, and will burn a year of service time sitting on the bench (since they're going to shut him down at 160). A 2-3 starter is valuable at his pay rate, if he makes 30 starts. Not if he makes 7.

Except, Logan, that a partial season at this point will cost NOTHING, either in terms of arbitration eligibility or free agency. I think a tour around the league and the player "getting a taste" of his future team is worth it. He's certainly got a higher ceiling than anyone in the rotation and he's almost 26.

 

Edit: I didn't see Brock's posting about service time. Sorry for the redundancy.

[Brock Beauchamp]

They are going to pencil Gibson into the 2014 rotation regardless.

 

Then it makes even more sense to get him in the rotation now.

[Tibs]

Since we're talking hypothetical here, say we call Gibson up and he gives us 5-7 starts, and the Twins end up winning those starts and we somehow get into the playoffs by 1 game. Do those starts provide any value?

[DaveW]

Then it makes even more sense to get him in the rotation now.

 

I'm pretty confident he will be up within the next week or two regardless. People need to calm down a bit, if we are having this conversation in a month, then I would be pissed.

 

Oddly enough I think they are trying to "audition" Pelfrey at this point, I read on MLBtraderumors earlier that there was a team looking at him.

 

Also have the Twins publicly said how many innings they are limiting him too? I can't remember.

[Brock Beauchamp]

I'm pretty confident he will be up within the next week or two regardless. People need to calm down a bit, if we are having this conversation in a month, then I would be pissed.

 

Oddly enough I think they are trying to "audition" Pelfrey at this point, I read on MLBtraderumors earlier that there was a team looking at him.

 

Also have the Twins publicly said how many innings they are limiting him too? I can't remember.

 

To be clear, I'm not up in arms about Gibson... Yet. I haven't been up in arms about a promotion since the Bartlett fiasco, though Slama got close at one point.

 

But if he's not up here in 2-3 weeks... Then yeah, I'm gonna be pretty pissed.

[DaveW]

though Slama got close at one point.

lol

[JB_Iowa]

I think there's an echo in here. I thought I read that first paragraph of Dave's about a month ago though not necessarily from Dave.

[IdahoPilgrim]

 

Also have the Twins publicly said how many innings they are limiting him too? I can't remember.

 

No, not directly, which is why all this 130-inning limit talk is iffy at best. Mackay did report this winter that he was told there would be a 130-140 inning limit, but since then there has been nothing - certainly nothing like we heard last year about Strasberg in Washington, where it was said continuously and very publicly that this is the limit.

 

My guess is they'll let him pitch as long as he is effective and is showing no signs of wear, and once they get past 140 they'll just be extra sensitive to shutting him down if it looks like he's fading.

[ThePuck]

But if he's not up here in 2-3 weeks... Then yeah, I'm gonna be pretty pissed.

 

I'm not talking about you, but it seems like I read comments like this a lot from the blanket apologists in a variety of conversations...and then if (and often when) that time frame comes up and nothing happens, the pissed off breaking point date gets moved back some more.

[Brock Beauchamp]

lol

 

It had more to do with the Twins roster than Slama himself. At the time, Gardy was letting Jeff Gray walk to the mound multiple times a week. I would rather have seen a damned pitching machine on the roster.

[Brock Beauchamp]

I'm not talking about you, but it seems like I read comments like this a lot from the blanket apologists in a variety of conversations...and then if (and often when) that time frame comes up and nothing happens, the pissed off breaking point date gets moved back some more.

 

I'm basically saying this:

 

A month ago, I was tolerant of Gibson being in AAA. They said he needed consistency and I'll defer to their judgment... for awhile. Now, I believe he has shown that consistency and there is space for him in the rotation. Plus, he's running out of available 2013 innings. In 2-3 weeks, I'm going to be really irritated if he's still in the minors because there's no reason for it (unless he throws an absolute clunker or gets injured).

[ThePuck]

certainly nothing like we heard last year about Strasberg in Washington, where it was said continuously and very publicly that this is the limit.

 

 

Why would those situations compare? First, one was pitching in the majors. OF COURSE it's going to get more attention. Second, Strasburg was a MUCH better prospect AND their team was headed for the playoffs.

[ThePuck]

I'm basically saying this:

 

A month ago, I was tolerant of Gibson being in AAA. They said he needed consistency and I'll defer to their judgment... for awhile. Now, I believe he has shown that consistency and there is space for him in the rotation. Plus, he's running out of available 2013 innings. In 2-3 weeks, I'm going to be really irritated if he's still in the minors because there's no reason for it (unless he throws an absolute clunker or gets injured).

 

I got what you were saying, like I said, I wasn't even talking about you. Thanks for the clarification anyway.

[snepp]

I'm on the verge of petitioning the other admins to censor the word entirely. I get mad every damned time I see it.

 

 

So you're saying that you get consistently mad about it?

[IdahoPilgrim]

Why would those situations compare? First, one was pitching in the majors. OF COURSE it's going to get more attention. Second, Strasburg was a MUCH better prospect AND their team was headed for the playoffs.

 

All of this is true. And none of it changes the fact that, aside from one second-hand comment made in the off-season, there is nothing that indicates Gibson has an innings limit.

 

If someone has a direct quote from Ryan, or Gardenhire, or anybody in the front office, I would love to see it. Honestly. Not speculation from a blogger or columnist, not a post in a chat room or forum thread. An actual quote.

[IdahoPilgrim]

I'll even add this to the mix: a quote from Terry Ryan in March denying there is a firm limit.

 

"It's not a firm number," Ryan said. "He's different from (Francisco) Liriano. He's different from Joe Nathan. ... We're going to make sure that we take care of him, but we're also going to give him an opportunity to develop."

 

Minnesota Twins send Kyle Gibson down, can't wait to bring him back - TwinCities.com

[howieramone1406390264]

I'm not talking about you, but it seems like I read comments like this a lot from the blanket apologists in a variety of conversations...and then if (and often when) that time frame comes up and nothing happens, the pissed off breaking point date gets moved back some more.

That's true. At least the blanket bashers fess up to it when they're wrong.

[ThePuck]

Well, Phil Mackey wrote: 'Earlier this offseason, Ryan said the Twins will likely limit Gibson's innings to somewhere between 130 and 140 in 2013 -- much like the Atlanta Braves did with Kris Medlen, who pitched 138 innings in his first full season back from Tommy John surgery.'

 

Unless you believe Phil Mackey is lying about what he was told by Ryan, whom he talks to all the time, it was probably said by Ryan.

 

Rhett Bollinger, who has the ear of the organization as well since he's their beat reporter for MLB.com wrote: 'But he'll have his innings cut short this season, as the Twins are expected to limit him to about 130-140 innings. There are no plans to use him as a reliever initially to limit that total, but the Twins could decide to start him slowly at Triple-A Rochester before giving him his first call to the big leagues.'

 

I mean, I suppose if you are hell-bent on insisting on exact quotes, this doesn't work. I believe most reasonable people can probably take at least Mackey at his word as to what Ryan said.

 

Seth, who is pretty well respected around here, asked for info on inning-limit as well, and he took Mackey's word for it, even without exact quotes.

 

http://twinsdaily.com/minnesota-twins-talk/6702-kyle-gibson-s-innings-limit.html

[twinsnorth49]

I don't like Pelfrey either. The Twins should replace Pelf and Diamond with Gibson and Albers and look to the future. Pelfrey is never going to find his top form this season and if he's not in the plans for next season why are the Twins riding it out with him and this rough season he's having? People say "well Pelf's velocity is really coming back...."WHO CARES? The guy throws fastballs right down the middle of the plate about 50 times a game. Unless he's throwing over 100MPH his increased velocity means very little.

 

So Diamond isn't part of the future but Walters, Deduno and Corriea are?

[Mike Sixel]

The timerames do seem to move for a lot of people....like for Buxton, everyone told me not to be mad, he'd be up after the all star break...don't worry. Now, it's, well, it doesn't matter, he'll be up eventually.

 

At some point, it does matter......especially for pitchers, whose arms are ticking timebombs frankly.

[JB_Iowa]

especially for pitchers, whose arms are ticking timebombs frankly.

 

That one needs a good photo-shopper .... I keep seeing these Popeye-like arms embedded with dynamite and an alarm clock.

[IdahoPilgrim]

Well, Phil Mackey wrote: 'Earlier this offseason, Ryan said the Twins will likely limit Gibson's innings to somewhere between 130 and 140 in 2013 -- much like the Atlanta Braves did with Kris Medlen, who pitched 138 innings in his first full season back from Tommy John surgery.'

 

Unless you believe Phil Mackey is lying about what he was told by Ryan, whom he talks to all the time, it was probably said by Ryan.

 

Rhett Bollinger, who has the ear of the organization as well since he's their beat reporter for MLB.com wrote: 'But he'll have his innings cut short this season, as the Twins are expected to limit him to about 130-140 innings. There are no plans to use him as a reliever initially to limit that total, but the Twins could decide to start him slowly at Triple-A Rochester before giving him his first call to the big leagues.'

 

I mean, I suppose if you are hell-bent on insisting on exact quotes, this doesn't work. I believe most reasonable people can probably take at least Mackey at his word as to what Ryan said.

 

Seth, who is pretty well respected around here, asked for info on inning-limit as well, and he took Mackey's word for it, even without exact quotes.

 

http://twinsdaily.com/minnesota-twins-talk/6702-kyle-gibson-s-innings-limit.html

 

I remember that thread, and that Mackey piece was the only "evidence" given.

 

I think that's superseded by the interview Ryan gave in March, referenced in an earlier post I made in this thread, where he specifically says there is no firm limit.

[ThePuck]

I remember that thread, and that Mackey piece was the only "evidence" given.

 

I think that's superseded by the interview Ryan gave in March, referenced in an earlier post I made in this thread, where he specifically says there is no firm limit.

 

You asked for info and I gave it. If you wanna say it doesn't count because Ryan said something later, that's fine. Doesn't mean it wasn't said, which is what you asked for. Well, actually you asked for a direct quote, which Mackey didn't put in his article. He just told us Ryan said it.