June 20th

[Jason]

Link

 

Rochester vs Scranton/WB 6:05 PM

New Britain vs Erie 11:05 AM

Jupiter vs Fort Myers 6:05 PM

Cedar Rapids vs Wisconsin 7:05 PM

Bristol vs Elizabethton 6:05 PM

DSL DSL Orioles1 vs DSL Twins

[Jason]

Darnell with a complete game shutout 9k's and 4 hits allowed.

[KernelsGuy1]

Max Kepler hitting 6th and playing LF for the Kernels tonight.

[stringer bell]

Check out Gibson tonight. I guess he's not consistent??!!

[PseudoSABR]

Another ho-hum outing by Gibson so far, 6ip 3h 1bb 6ks

[twinsnorth49]

Another ho-hum outing by Gibson so far, 6ip 3h 1bb 6ks

 

I hope he pulls it together soon, for a 6 month consecutive stretch, then we'll really know whatever it is we're waiting to know.

[pab]

Colabello hit #15 on the season.

 

Also, Wilkin Ramirez is DHing for the Miracle. He's 0-3 with a walk.

[Badsmerf]

Since Gibson threw 7 scoreless, now his consistency is all screwed up. Last time he threw 6 IP with 3 ER, then it was 7 IP and 1 ER and 6 IP and 2 ER and 6 IP and 6 ER! OMG!!! Why can't he just have the same IP and the amount of ER every start? I can't take the up and down. Do we expect no runs or 3 runs!?! Will he go 6 IP or 7 IP!?? This is too much!

[drjim]

Gibson should have been up two months ago but a couple of thoughts.

 

Arby is no longer an excuse so the Twins must be concerned about something else.

 

Also, Gibson might not really be much more than a 3 or 4. The longer he is down the higher our expectations become. That is a mistake and is setting up for disappointment.

 

That said, it is beyond time. Get him up.

[PseudoSABR]

Arby is no longer an excuse so the Twins must be concerned about something else.

Right. There's something. And I think we are too fixated on results, when we hear a word like consistency. Let's not forget that Hendricks dominated AAA before laying an egg at the big league level. There might be consistency problems in Gibson's approach, mechanics, preparation, what-have-you, that aren't showing up in the AAA boxscore, that will show up when he reaches the majors. The notion that the Twins are just being stubborn or giving 'scholarships' to lesser players seems nonsensical, and can be dismissed out of hand. The Twins are clearly concerned about something; I just hope that Gibson's recent run alleviates those concerns.

 

I also have some skepticism about the actual innings limit; I wonder how devoted the Twins really are to that restriction--because if they aren't married to an innings limit, keeping Gibson in AAA doesn't seem as egregious.

[TheLeviathan]

The notion that the Twins are just being stubborn or giving 'scholarships' to lesser players seems nonsensical, and can be dismissed out of hand. The Twins are clearly concerned about something; I just hope that Gibson's recent run alleviates those concerns.

 

My question to that would be....why not just say that? A simple comment to the public like this:

 

"We are tinkering some things with Gibby's approach to make sure he's ready to face big league hitters. We are very happy with his results, but there are still a few things he needs to do before he's ready"

 

It's still vague and while it may not call off the attack dogs, it also isn't as equally dismissed out of hand like the absurd notion of "consistency". Not to mention, it might actually be accurate. I continue to worry that even if Gibson is a great guy who doesn't begrudge the Twins actions yet, hearing this nonsense in public would eventually wear on anyone. Especially when you're talking about his career and literally, tens of thousands of dollars and potentially much more in his long-term future.

[PseudoSABR]

My question to that would be....why not just say that?

The people that are upset by Gibson not being called up are a very small portion of the fanbase. We're hyperfans on this board. Such announcements could also be counterproductive if there's some attitude or psychological reason that might hold a player back (not saying that is at all the case with Gibson).

 

I'm also sure that the Twins are in communication with Gibson about what he needs to accomplish (whether in results or approach, etc.) to get to the big leagues.

[TheLeviathan]

I'm also sure that the Twins are in communication with Gibson about what he needs to accomplish (whether in results or approach, etc.) to get to the big leagues.

 

That's fine, but the quote I posted as an example works just as well for the public and it isn't a mixed message then. To me, either the Twins do believe he needs to be more "consistent" (an utterly absurd notion given his results) and they are being consistent themselves in their message which is an indictment in it's own right. Or they are sending mixed messages for what reason I have no idea.

 

Also, I don't think it's a "very small portion" of the fanbase that would like to see Gibson. They may not have all the stats or information, but I imagine many people would like to see our best, most-ready young pitcher.

[drjim]

That's fine, but the quote I posted as an example works just as well for the public and it isn't a mixed message then. To me, either the Twins do believe he needs to be more "consistent" (an utterly absurd notion given his results) and they are being consistent themselves in their message which is an indictment in it's own right. Or they are sending mixed messages for what reason I have no idea.

 

Also, I don't think it's a "very small portion" of the fanbase that would like to see Gibson. They may not have all the stats or information, but I imagine many people would like to see our best, most-ready young pitcher.

 

Are you implying people would rather see Gibson over someone like Walters?

[TheLeviathan]

Are you implying people would rather see Gibson over someone like Walters?

 

I'm out on that limb...yes. I daresay...and caution me if I go too far....perhaps Mike Pelfrey as well.

[jokin]

The people that are upset by Gibson not being called up are a very small portion of the fanbase. We're hyperfans on this board. Such announcements could also be counterproductive if there's some attitude or psychological reason that might hold a player back 1)(not saying that is at all the case with Gibson).

2)I'm also sure that the Twins are in communication with Gibson about what he needs to accomplish (whether in results or approach, etc.) to get to the big leagues.

 

1) In regards to the underlined, then why did you say the first part of your sentence if you're "not saying that is at all the case with Gibson." What else are we supposed to think?

 

2) So give me an idea on what the Twins communication is about his approach, exactly. Is it something like:

 

"7 of 9 effective starts just isn't consistent enough for the big leagues, Kid. The International League aint the majors, you Young Buck. You're still wet behind the ears, heck, didn't you just start shaving last week? Here's the Bottom Line, Rookie: Until you're matching Matt Harvey's numbers from last year in Buffalo, we just don't think you've got what it takes for a Premature Call-Up, don't you know how damaging it would be to your psyche if it doesn't go well........

 

Uhh, what's that you say Kyle? You say you're numbers this year are better than Harvey's from last year? OK, you might have a point, but look at how much Harvey is regressing, he has 3 bad starts in his last 6. Sorry kid, Matt will probably be joining you back in the IL in another week or two...."

 

"Glad we had this chance to touch base. Communication is so important. Let's touch base again when we decide on your shutdown date (most likely after the fact)."

[jokin]

That's fine, but the quote I posted as an example works just as well for the public and it isn't a mixed message then. To me, either the Twins do believe he needs to be more "consistent" (an utterly absurd notion given his results) and they are being consistent themselves in their message which is an indictment in it's own right. Or they are sending mixed messages for what reason I have no idea.

 

Also, I don't think it's a "very small portion" of the fanbase that would like to see Gibson. They may not have all the stats or information, but I imagine many people would like to see our best, most-ready young pitcher.

 

IMO, that line of argument destroys the rest of the case being made. It really isn't and shouldn't be about what the fans want, it just appears to be so obviously in the best interest for the long-term benefit to both the franchise and to Gibson for him to be getting major league innings. If they have actually identified a flaw or tell in Gibson's delivery or mechanics, what does it hurt to work on the "problem(s)" and fix it/them in real-time under real major league situations? It can't be a concern over innings pitched or pitches per appearance, he has multiple complete games with multiple 100+ pitched games. There is nothing in Gibson's makeup that suggests he will suffer a career-ending mental collapse if he has a couple bad outings with the Twins.

[PseudoSABR]

1) In regards to the underlined, then why did you say the first part of your sentence if you're "not saying that is at all the case with Gibson." What else are we supposed to think?

Well, that's why I clarified (I specifically told you how you're 'supposed to think' about what I had said). And, if you think about it, you don't to make announcements about some player's development and not other's because the one's you don't make announcements for get weirded out (real, rational human effect). So you make a policy where you don't make announcements on development. Seems prudent and mature to me.

 

2) [speculative narrative that supports author's preconceived notions.]

Again, you simply focus on Gibson's AAA results and not whatever else might lead to major league success. You act as if there's no track record for pitchers dominating AAA and failing at the major league level (in fact the Twins just had such player, ahem, Hendricks). There's myriad possibilities from Gibson's preparation, approach, pitch selection, coachability, on-and-on that don't show up in AAA boxscores, but will lead to failure at the ML.

 

Again, this is not to say that Gibson hasn't earned his shot (I believe he has), but that Twins are somehow nefarious in this regard is asinine. And really, such continued suggestions seem not only out of touch, but also trollish.

[PseudoSABR]

(an utterly absurd notion given his results)

Seriously, Levi, can you not concieve of an instance where the results in AAA belie the capacity for major league success? Liam Hendricks exists. Gibson has 'earned' his shot, but that in and of itself doesn't translate to major league success, especially if his coaches and management see part of his game that is vulnerable. I just don't get the cynicism, it seems totally assumptive and weighted towards a preconceived point of view.

 

And I think you're totally wrong about the money-spending fanbase knowing much about Gibson at all. Really, that's my hunch, and my cynicism as well. But I think the fanbase is pretty much a cross-section of the American populace, which well, isn't all that bright, thoughtful, or attentive. Most don't probably know who Trevor Plouffe is, Willingham is probably still totally foreign to many. Gibson? Who? Pshwwww?

[jokin]

Well, that's why I clarified (I specifically told you how you're 'supposed to think'). And, if you think about it, you don't to make announcements about some player's development and not other's because the one's you don't make announcements for get weirded out (real, rational human effect). So you make a policy where you don't make announcements on development. Seems prudent and mature to me.

 

Again, you simply focus on Gibson's AAA results and not whatever else might lead to major league success. You act as if there's no track record for pitchers dominating AAA and failing at the major league level (in fact the Twins just had such player, ahem, Hendricks). There's a myriad possibilities from Gibson's preparation, approach, pitch selection, coachability, on-and-on that don't show up in AAA boxscores, but will lead to failure at the ML.

 

Again, this is not to say that Gibson hasn't earned his shot (I believe he has), but that Twins are somehow nefarious in this regard is asinine. And really, such continued suggestions seem not only out of touch, but also trollish.

 

So now you're actually proposing that Gibson = Hendriks? Uhh, nope that won't wash. And frankly, you clarified nothing except link Gibson to a policy that might "weird him out" if pronouncing what is holding him back is too explicit.

 

While I was certainly glib in my little "communication" banter, I certainly never have suggested anything nefarious is afoot. That little conspiracy chestnut has already been thoroughly debunked previously. There obviously is/are reasons why Gibson is not getting the call, but the Twins public set of excuses for Gibson's delayed call-up thus far have been championed by the true believers- right up until they are completely demonstrated to be worthless, or in the case of babying Gibson- possibly spot on. That was what I was lampooning. I'm sorry, you may pooh-pooh AAA numbers, but the fact remains that Gibson is "consistently" (ha, that word again) putting up numbers that Matt Harvey could only dream about last year in Buffalo; unless there is something physically wrong that he is working on correcting, or, major league promotion presents a clear and present endangerment to his long-term career, this has gone on far too long.

[jokin]

Seriously, Levi, can you not concieve of an instance where the results in AAA belie the capacity for major league success? Liam Hendricks exists. Gibson has 'earned' his shot, but that in and of itself doesn't translate to major league success, especially if his coaches and management see part of his game that is vulnerable. I just don't get the cynicism, it seems totally assumptive and weighted towards a preconceived point of view.

 

And I think you're totally wrong about the money-spending fanbase knowing much about Gibson at all. Really, that's my hunch, and my cynicism as well. But I think the fanbase is pretty much a cross-section of the American populace, which well, isn't all that bright, thoughtful, or attentive. Most don't probably know who Trevor Plouffe is, Willingham is probably still totally foreign to many. Gibson? Who? Pshwwww?

 

The Liam Hendriks well, invoked, yet again. You do realize the two pitchers are in completely different realms with respect to talent, right?

[PseudoSABR]

The Liam Hendriks well, invoked, yet again. You do realize the two pitchers are in completely different realms with respect to talent, right?

I do, it's why I don't bet so much on the results. Go figure.

[TheLeviathan]

Seriously, Levi, can you not concieve of an instance where the results in AAA belie the capacity for major league success?

 

Huh? Please read my suggestion again:

 

 

"We are tinkering some things with Gibby's approach to make sure he's ready to face big league hitters. We are very happy with his results, but there are still a few things he needs to do before he's ready"

 

Not only do I conceive it, I agree it's most likely. My point is that consistency is utter bunk...so why keep going with that explanation rather than the far more reasonable one i suggested?

 

And I think you're totally wrong about the money-spending fanbase knowing much about Gibson at all. Really, that's my hunch, and my cynicism as well.

 

I won't disagree about the intelligence of the general populace, but ever since Todd Walker this organization has always put an emphasis on the farm. I think this fanbase is more aware of prospects than most for the simple reason that for 20 years now it's been a major point of emphasis by the announcers, spokespeople, and leadership.

[Badsmerf]

I do, it's why I don't bet so much on the results. Go figure.

I'm of the position that the Twins are ****ing-up Hendriks. While I will concede that it is possible he can dominate AAA then not make it in the MLB, he needs an actual shot. He will figure out how to get MLB hitters out, it is just giving him the opportunity.

[glunn]

There are several posts on this thread that are too harsh and disrespectful in attacking the positions of other posters. I have not deleted all of them, but I am warning that this thread is now being closely watched and that bans will be considered if people don't tone down their rhetoric. As always, you can debate as passionately as you wish, but do not use charged words like "asinine: in referring to the positions of others. Repeated conduct like this will lead to bans.