2023 Vikings Off Season Thread

[Mike Sixel]

Lynch out for the year. 

[Vanimal46]

Sounds like Kwesi found another undrafted gem this year. Everyone I follow on Twitter that talks/reports Vikings is raving about OLB Ivan Pace Jr. 

[Danchat]

1 hour ago, Vanimal46 said:

Sounds like Kwesi found another undrafted gem this year. Everyone I follow on Twitter that talks/reports Vikings is raving about OLB Ivan Pace Jr. 

He was considered a 4th-5th round prospect who some thought was too short (5'11") to play LB. They offered the most guaranteed money to him ($240K I think) and seem poised to reap the rewards. I don't get why teams don't spend a 6th/7th on a guy like this, who clearly had a higher ceiling then most of the guys going in the final two rounds.

[Mike Sixel]

1 hour ago, Danchat said:

He was considered a 4th-5th round prospect who some thought was too short (5'11") to play LB. They offered the most guaranteed money to him ($240K I think) and seem poised to reap the rewards. I don't get why teams don't spend a 6th/7th on a guy like this, who clearly had a higher ceiling then most of the guys going in the final two rounds.

Ya. All he did was produce. That really should hold more weight. Very happy he's in Minnesota. 

[nicksaviking]

4 hours ago, Vanimal46 said:

Sounds like Kwesi found another undrafted gem this year. Everyone I follow on Twitter that talks/reports Vikings is raving about OLB Ivan Pace Jr. 

Looking at the depth chart......

Yeah, LB looks like the easiest path for a UDFA to make this team. Eh, maybe it's tied with CB.

Man, it's been a looooong time since this team didn't have at least one standout interior LB.

[Mike Sixel]

Just now, nicksaviking said:

Looking at the depth chart......

Yeah, LB looks like the easiest path for a UDFA to make this team. Eh, maybe it's tied with CB.

Man, it's been a looooong time since this team didn't have at least one standout interior LB.

Asamougha should be good. Should have played a lot more last year. 

[nicksaviking]

1 minute ago, Mike Sixel said:

Asamougha should be good. Should have played a lot more last year. 

I hope so, someone's going to need to make tackles.

But going from Hendricks to Greenway to Henderson, seems like this club has pretty much always had pretty big name to anchor the middle of the field this century. I'd be happy if Asamougha or someone less expected grabs the spotlight.

[Danchat]

Here's my latest depth chart for those interested, based upon the unofficial depth chart that recently came out. (Grades are from PFF)

[Vanimal46]

4 hours ago, Danchat said:

Here's my latest depth chart for those interested, based upon the unofficial depth chart that recently came out. (Grades are from PFF)

Do you think Pace will get his snaps in the middle? I thought he’s an edge rusher. 

Boy, that’s a young, potentially bad CB room. Career defining seasons ahead for Booth Jr, Evans, and Williams. 

[nicksaviking]

4 hours ago, Danchat said:

Here's my latest depth chart for those interested, based upon the unofficial depth chart that recently came out. (Grades are from PFF)

You didn't happen to show this to Brian Flores before he accepted the job did you? Pretty sure he would have ran away screaming.

[nicksaviking]

24 minutes ago, Vanimal46 said:

Do you think Pace will get his snaps in the middle? I thought he’s an edge rusher. 

Boy, that’s a young, potentially bad CB room. Career defining seasons ahead for Booth Jr, Evans, and Williams. 

I've seen Pace listed as an "OLB" but I think that was in reference to a traditional 4-3 scheme, so what was formerly the Will or Sam LB. The Chad Greenway or Ben Lieber spots had they been playing 3-4. The depth charts I've seen have him behind either Hicks or Asamoah I can't imagine anyone thinks he's big enough to be an edge guy. 

[Danchat]

2 hours ago, Vanimal46 said:

Do you think Pace will get his snaps in the middle? I thought he’s an edge rusher. 

No, he's a 3-4 ILB and has been practicing there - he's even been taking some 1st team snaps from Asamoah. Flores is known for using blitzing ILBs, and when we signed Pace I saw someone comment about how Pace was a logical fit for this role. Hicks has also been an effective blitzer through his career, too.

2 hours ago, Vanimal46 said:

Boy, that’s a young, potentially bad CB room. Career defining seasons ahead for Booth Jr, Evans, and Williams.

They're putting a ton of faith in a late 3rd (Blackmon) and an early 4th (Evans)... I'm getting 2020 vibes when Vikings media tried to convince us that going with Mike Hughes and Holton Hill as our top starters was a good idea. Maybe this regime can actually develop CBs, I did really like Evans as a prospect but the 3 concussions last year scares me.

Williams is probably just a backup (4 mediocre or injured years with Belichick coaching him) but he's having a good camp. Booth Jr is already veering towards total bust, he's reportedly been getting torched repeatedly in camp and keeps getting injured.

2 hours ago, nicksaviking said:

You didn't happen to show this to Brian Flores before he accepted the job did you? Pretty sure he would have ran away screaming.

I think he knew what he was getting into, Donatell wasn't 100% of the reason why the 2022 defense sucked at the end of the year, personnel was a big part of it. And now without Tomlinson and Z Smith, too. I don't think that will daunt Flores, he inherited a bone-dry Dolphins roster in 2019, who were tanking so hard they traded away their 2018 1st round stud Minkah Fitzpatrick for a future 1st, and got that unit to be competent in 2020. Of course, his 2019 defense was the worst in most categories, but that's hardly his fault. I have similar expectations for him, I expect small improvements in 2023 and bigger ones in 2024, assuming we use our future cap space to sign a bunch of defensive free agents.

[Vanimal46]

3 minutes ago, Danchat said:

No, he's a 3-4 ILB and has been practicing there - he's even been taking some 1st team snaps from Asamoah. Flores is known for using blitzing ILBs, and when we signed Pace I saw someone comment about how Pace was a logical fit for this role. Hicks has also been an effective blitzer through his career, too.

Excellent. No wonder why I keep reading he’s practicing with the 1st string players. His path to playing time is even easier at ILB.  

[Danchat]

4 hours ago, Vanimal46 said:

Excellent. No wonder why I keep reading he’s practicing with the 1st string players. His path to playing time is even easier at ILB.  

From what I've read it sounds like Pace will likely be used in some special passing down formations where he'll blitz or probably play a bit in coverage, but Hicks and Asamoah are the starters. Hicks is the one with the green dot (calling plays to the other players) and appears to be locked into an every-down role, which is curious given how he was a massive liability in coverage last season and even Donatell started reducing his snap count in favor of Asamoah last year. Maybe Flores knows what he is doing, but they could have saved $5M by axing Hicks and signing one of many decent to good LBs on the market (they instead got Hicks to take a $1.5M pay cut).

[Vanimal46]

Not going to pretend like I watched the whole preseason game… I just watched a couple of series in the first half. 

The Good:

- Ivan Pace Jr has a knack for the ball and isn’t afraid to blow up blockers to get to the ball. 

- Ty Chandler is taking his opportunity and running away with it. He looks like a lock to be the #2 RB. 

- Jordan Addison had some nice catches. 

The Bad:

- Interior OL still looks shaky.  As does the OL depth 

- McBride had a bad first impression. Looks more like a practice squad player. 

The Ugly:

- Andrew Booth Jr. flat out looks bad. He is trending towards being a bust draft pick. 

- So does Lewis Cine. I am very concerned about these 2 players making any impact for the Vikings. 

[nicksaviking]

Agree with all points. I wouldn't be surprised if Chandler takes Mattison's job first chance he gets, Mattison has NEVER been an explosive back and I think the disparity is going to be clear as day to everyone once Chandler starts subbing in for him.

Also your last points are spot on. Seemed like last year Booth and Cine originally may have had their spots on the depth chart just been deferred to vets. But Evans was the same draft class and it should not be hard to justify taking Cam Bynum's job. Bad sign. And along with WR, DBs are the positions that just cannot play injured. At least not lower body injured, and both give great concerns on that front.

[Vanimal46]

14 minutes ago, nicksaviking said:

Booth and Cine originally may have had their spots on the depth chart just been deferred to vets. But Evans was the same draft class and it should not be hard to justify taking Cam Bynum's job. Bad sign.

Agreed. The bar is so low to win the FS job over Bynum. 1st round safeties tend to contribute immediately…

What I’m interested in seeing later on is if Kwesi cuts his draft picks sooner than Spielman when it’s obvious it isn’t working. 

[Vanimal46]

After 1 preseason game they’re already second guessing the RB talent and depth in the room…

 

[Mike Sixel]

On 8/11/2023 at 9:31 PM, Vanimal46 said:

After 1 preseason game they’re already second guessing the RB talent and depth in the room…

 

Interesting. Could be about veteran knowledge and picking up blitzes? That's a 100% guess..... Didn't watch from the land of the vikings. My son was on the field for the game, I'll ask how that was when I'm back in the US 

[nicksaviking]

Sounds like Cook is going to the Jets.

I’ve been wondering about how this will play out for a couple weeks now. Unless Hall is out longer than expected, the Jets probably have no need for Michael Carter.  With the NFL clearly colluding to keep RB prices down, he could be a cheap trade target. Zero rumors or speculation as far as I’ve heard, but my hunch is he’s moved to Dallas, Washington. Arizona, or Minnesota. What’s it take, a 4th round pick? 

[Danchat]

So Zeke gets $3M from the Patriots with $3M in hard-to-reach incentives, while Cook gets $7M from the Jets with $1.6M in difficult incentives. The Jets also protect themselves with bonuses that dictate that Cook must play in every game to get that $7M, taking in account for a potential suspension (not going to happen until 2024 most likely) and injury.

On 8/14/2023 at 8:01 PM, nicksaviking said:

I’ve been wondering about how this will play out for a couple weeks now. Unless Hall is out longer than expected, the Jets probably have no need for Michael Carter.

Heck, I think a 7th is all you'd need to offer. I don't think he makes the team, and he was one of the worst RBs when it came to efficiency in the run and pass game last year so that's why I think he'll be cheap. I liked him as a prospect and it wouldn't be a bad idea to stash him behind Mattison and Chandler, but I wouldn't get my hopes too high for him.

[nicksaviking]

2 hours ago, Danchat said:

So Zeke gets $3M from the Patriots with $3M in hard-to-reach incentives, while Cook gets $7M from the Jets with $1.6M in difficult incentives. The Jets also protect themselves with bonuses that dictate that Cook must play in every game to get that $7M, taking in account for a potential suspension (not going to happen until 2024 most likely) and injury.

Heck, I think a 7th is all you'd need to offer. I don't think he makes the team, and he was one of the worst RBs when it came to efficiency in the run and pass game last year so that's why I think he'll be cheap. I liked him as a prospect and it wouldn't be a bad idea to stash him behind Mattison and Chandler, but I wouldn't get my hopes too high for him.

I'd take him for a 7th for sure. He wasn't good last year when he was banged up, but he was pretty good behind one of the worst OL in the league in his rookie season.

[Vanimal46]

I saw a couple of series towards the end of the first half last night. Oli Udoh had the type of game that gets people released. Multiple penalties and multiple sacks given up, including on back to back plays. I don’t know why we moved Brandel to RG. Shift him back to the swing tackle role and sign a vet RG to compete against Ingram. 

[nicksaviking]

So when are these contracts for our star players getting done? What's the point in waiting until the last minute, just to see if someone gets hit by a bus?

[Vanimal46]

2 hours ago, nicksaviking said:

So when are these contracts for our star players getting done? What's the point in waiting until the last minute, just to see if someone gets hit by a bus?

Can’t remember which Vikings blog I read it on but I recall them saying the years and $ amount is agreed upon with Hockenson, but the guaranteed money is the hold up. 

I’m not worried about it yet. Hopefully it gets done in the next week or 2. I don’t think we’ll get Jefferson locked in this year. 

[Mike Sixel]

I didn't watch one second. I barely have read anything, but Udoh should be gone, and this D is going to give up a **** ton of points.

[Mike Sixel]

Did the Vikings learn anything in week 2? Is the preseason a waste of time now?

[nicksaviking]

1 hour ago, Mike Sixel said:

Did the Vikings learn anything in week 2? Is the preseason a waste of time now?

The games mostly are, that's for sure. 

But that's not new.

[Mike Sixel]

Anyone else think it is odd that Hockenson is out with an ear infection and vows to be ready by week 1? Like, that's one bad ear infection!

[Mike Sixel]

1 hour ago, Mike Sixel said:

Anyone else think it is odd that Hockenson is out with an ear infection and vows to be ready by week 1? Like, that's one bad ear infection!

Back stiffness.... Also known as, I don't have my new contact yet stiffness.