Game Thread: Twins @ Indians, 5/4 - 12:05pm

[Brock Beauchamp]

Lineups:

 

Twins:

Brian Dozier 2B

Joe Mauer DH

Josh Willingham LF

Justin Morneau 1B

Trevor Plouffe 3B

Ryan Doumit C

Chris Parmelee RF

Aaron Hicks CF

Pedro Florimon SS

(Kevin Correia P)

 

Indians:

Michael Brantley LF

Jason Kipnis 2B

Asdrubal Cabrera SS

Nick Swisher DH

Mark Reynolds 1B

Carlos Santana C

Lonnie Chisenhall 3B

Drew Stubbs CF

Ezequiel Carrera RF

(Scott Kazmir P)

[Badsmerf]

Wrong date homey.

[snepp]

Fixed.

[ashbury]

Probably will miss this game, but good luck to KC and his band.

[Brock Beauchamp]

Wrong date homey.

 

Last night's game was crap. This thread is my formal protest.

[Brock Beauchamp]

fixed.

 

khhhhaaaaaaannnn!!!!

[Brock Beauchamp]

If the Twins are going to wi a game in this series, this is it. Correia has pitched way over his head and Kazmir has been several forms of awful thus far.

[snepp]

If the Twins are going to wi a game in this series, this is it. Correia has pitched way over his head and Kazmir has been several forms of awful thus far.

 

So you're saying the Twins are going to get blown out today?

[snepp]

Hopefully that's the last time KC's homerun regression continues for today.

[snepp]

Hopefully that's the last time KC's homerun regression continues for today.

 

Jerk.

[jorgenswest]

On Kipnis...

 

Pitch 3 was on the edge of the strike zone - called a ball. A good frame will get the strike call.

 

Pitch 4 at the bottom on zone in the zone - called a ball. A poor frame loses the strike call.

 

Now the count is 3-1. Pitch 5 is in the middle of the zone. Home run.

 

Framing pitches matters.

[Danchat]

Commence the Correia meltdown!

[Guest USAFChief]

On Kipnis...

 

Pitch 3 was on the edge of the strike zone - called a ball. A good frame will get the strike call.

 

Pitch 4 at the bottom on zone in the zone - called a ball. A poor frame loses the strike call.

 

Now the count is 3-1. Pitch 5 is in the middle of the zone. Home run.

 

Framing pitches matters.

Pitch 3 was outside. Pitch 4 was low.

[jorgenswest]

Look at pitch 1 in Doumit's at bat called a strike. Much more off the plate than pitch 3 to Kipnis. Called a strike. Pitch 4 was in the zone.

[Guest USAFChief]

Look at pitch 1 in Doumit's at bat called a strike. Much more off the plate than pitch 3 to Kipnis. Called a strike. Pitch 4 was in the zone.

That seems to be a matter of opinion, not fact.

[jorgenswest]

Was pitch 5 to Dozier also a matter of opinion?

 

That strike call mattered.

[Brock Beauchamp]

On Kipnis...

 

Pitch 3 was on the edge of the strike zone - called a ball. A good frame will get the strike call.

 

Pitch 4 at the bottom on zone in the zone - called a ball. A poor frame loses the strike call.

 

Now the count is 3-1. Pitch 5 is in the middle of the zone. Home run.

 

Framing pitches matters.

 

I agree that pitch framing matters but you're speculating wildly and presenting it as fact. You can't just assume that a catcher can will a pitch into being called a strike. Ultimately, the umpire is the one who makes that decision. The catcher can do his damned to influence that decision but that's a hell of a long way from actually getting the call.

[jorgenswest]

Why do some catchers year in and year out get more strike calls around the edge of the zone than others?

 

No small sample here. There are tons of pitches caught every year.

[Brock Beauchamp]

Why do some catchers year in and year out get more strike calls around the edge of the zone than others?

 

No small sample here. There are tons of pitches caught every year.

 

Again, I said "influence". You said "would". It's not hard to see the difference between those two thought processes.

 

I've seen some great defensive catchers get a ball called dead red down the middle and some truly awful catchers get a shoulder high strike call. Pitch framing is about trends in sample sizes. Pointing out specific pitches and asserting that a better/worse catcher would have received a different call is the height of folly.

 

The umpire's zone has faaaaaar more influence than the catcher's ability to get a call on the black. There isn't only one variable at play in this situation and casting all weight to one element of the equation is just wrong.

[Guest USAFChief]

Why do some catchers year in and year out get more strike calls around the edge of the zone than others?

 

No small sample here. There are tons of pitches caught every year.

More accurately, why does one interpretation of available data--using pitch f/x, which we do not know to be accurate--indicate some catchers get more strike calls around the edge of the zone.

[jorgenswest]

Yes. Even Drew Butera can get a hit every once in a while.

 

I think a few of today's at bats points to the importance if getting that strike call.

 

I think the evidence that evidence that Doumit does a poor job of getting strike call in spite of different teams, leagues, starting pitchers and umpires is consistent.

 

And yes, even Doumit can frame a ball into a strike every once in a while.

 

... and no in case we go down that path, I wouldn't prefer Butera over Doumit at catcher today or any day.

[Riverbrian]

Finally getting a chance to settle in and we are down 4-1. The team must have needed me settled in.

[snepp]

For a minute there I thought I was in the catcher framing thread.

 

 

 

This is the KC bashing thread, get it straight.

[Brock Beauchamp]

More accurately, why does one interpretation of available data--using pitch f/x, which we do not know to be accurate--indicate some catchers get more strike calls around the edge of the zone.

 

To extend this line of thought, how much influence does the PITCHER have in this situation?

 

Because you can't claim that Greg Maddux spent 20 years throwing only to the best catchers in baseball.

[edavis0308]

For a minute there I thought I was in the catcher framing thread.

 

 

 

This is the KC bashing thread, get it straight.

 

Funny, I was thinking the same thing.

 

 

Regarding both.

[Riverbrian]

I didn't like that double play... It was way to tailor made.

[Riverbrian]

If Jorganswest is right... It's simple... fire the umps and fire them all... right now... Automate the process.

[edavis0308]

If Jorganswest is right... It's simple... fire the umps and fire them all... right now... Automate the process.

 

I always thought an immediate appeal like they use in tennis would be cool.

[Riverbrian]

I'd like an appeal process and an automatic 25 dollar bet between Ump and Batter.

[Riverbrian]

Correia seems a little frustrated. Brock Beauchamp seems frustrated as well.