Correia's KC start backlash

[Otto von Ballpark]

And the only reason I came back to this thread was that I thought it was interesting in view of the complete series. A bad team -- whose offense and starting pitchers are shaky -- probably shouldn't be trying to "save the bullpen" with a late lead in game 1 of a series, because there is a good possibility they will lay eggs in games 2 & 3 anyway and render any extra bullpen rest irrelevant.

 

This might be an adaptation that Gardy has to make. For 9 seasons, he managed a pretty good team with not many holes; he could better afford to "play for tomorrow" and the big picture. When your team isn't as good, every potential win is a lot more important. (Although fairly irrelevant in the big picture if you're just rebuilding anyway, I suppose)

[ashbury]

Whaaaaaaaaa

 

Learn from the mistake instead of doubling down, my brother.

[edavis0308]

And the only reason I came back to this thread was that I thought it was interesting in view of the complete series. A bad team -- whose offense and starting pitchers are shaky -- probably shouldn't be trying to "save the bullpen" with a late lead in game 1 of a series, because there is a good possibility they will lay eggs in games 2 & 3 anyway and render any extra bullpen rest irrelevant.

 

This might be an adaptation that Gardy has to make. For 9 seasons, he managed a pretty good team with not many holes; he could better afford to "play for tomorrow" and the big picture. When your team isn't as good, every potential win is a lot more important. (Although fairly irrelevant in the big picture if you're just rebuilding anyway, I suppose)

 

For a positive view on it, he did get us one game closer to a better draft pick.

[Aaron Cross]

Sounds right. Why does a team need a manager to make pitching changes Gwhen the starter can decide for himself? Surely pulling him would have been more destructive than losing the game itself.

 

Correia needed to be pulled because he does not have the ability to strike batters out and the Twins were up one run while a runner was on third in the 8th inning with less than two outs. This isn't 1980, the other 29 teams have learned that the strikeout is the most efficient way to prevent runs.

 

Grab Gardy, Terry Ryan and go take a class from Brian Sabean or Dave Dombrowski. Learn the game.

 

If my memory serves me correctly, the triple tied the game, right? Tie game, runner on 3rd, nobody out. Sorry, but that run is scoring no matter who's pitching.

[Aaron Cross]

Oh, man ... I read this whole thread and come to this? Am I allowed to say

'Grow up!' ... or is that against the rules?

 

Sheesh, really.

Definitely not allowed. You're probably going to be banned.

[Willihammer]

If my memory serves me correctly, the triple tied the game, right? Tie game, runner on 3rd, nobody out. Sorry, but that run is scoring no matter who's pitching.

 

April 8, 2013 Minnesota Twins at Kansas City Royals Box Score and Play by Play - Baseball-Reference.com

 

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[nicksaviking]

If my memory serves me correctly, the triple tied the game, right? Tie game, runner on 3rd, nobody out. Sorry, but that run is scoring no matter who's pitching.

 

No: lead off double => sac bunt to move runner to 3B => game tying single =>go ahead double =>pitching change.

 

Ahead, behind or tied, in a one run game and a man on 3B with less than 2 outs you need someone with a reasonably high probability of a strikeout on the mound. Correia has one of the worst K% in the league.

[Riverbrian]

Just to clarify: I think most of us had no problem with him starting the 8th. He was cruising, pitch count was fine, and the 8-9 hitters were due up to start the inning. But there should have been someone warming, and after the leadoff double by the 8 hitter, and especially with the runner on third, 1 out for the top of the order, he probably should have been pulled.

 

I even think Gardy normally does this -- he's pretty good with bullpens overall -- but he was trying to over-compensate for general weakness in the rotation. Also, he doesn't really know Correia yet. A quick scan of game logs shows that Correia has never completed 8 innings in a tie game or with a lead of less than 4. He's not a pitcher you try to force through the 8th inning, 4th time through the batting order, once there are already runners in scoring position, just to give a non-critical "breather" to your "8th inning guy" in the bullpen. (Not a lot of starters are that kind of pitcher anymore, but Correia's record and skill set are particularly not inclined to that task.) And I suspect Gardenhire learned this the hard way - he lost the game and had to use his "8th inning guy" anyway.

 

I agree with you Cake...

 

I only posted because I felt that Correia was painted a certain way. For example... not experienced pitching into the 8th.

 

Very few starters are and I just wanted to provide some balance because he seemed to be painted like he was part of a limited club of pitchers that just can't go 8.

 

My opinion on Correia overall is pretty simple. He wasn't my first choice and I'm not going to declare him a successful signing yet.

 

However... I do feel that the off season hand wringing was premature and the comments "that you don't put an average pitcher on the mound in that situation" made by some were not deserved.

 

He was clearly well above average on April 8th, 2013.

[Aaron Cross]

April 8, 2013 Minnesota Twins at Kansas City Royals Box Score and Play by Play - Baseball-Reference.com

 

Welcome to TD

OK, my bad. I was thinking leadoff single, then run scoring triple. I still bring out Correia for the 8th, but yes, with a lead, runner on 3rd, and 1 out, I would have pulled Correia.

[old nurse]

If my memory serves me correctly, the triple tied the game, right? Tie game, runner on 3rd, nobody out. Sorry, but that run is scoring no matter who's pitching.

Oh really? Then how did the Twins not score when they have the bases loaded and no outs the next day? That run may not have scored despite your assertions

[Aaron Cross]

Because its the Twins

[old nurse]

Because its the Twins

 

You can try to argue a point. You can simply no longer respond when you have no better answer. There is no such thing as "the guy will score from 3 base" guarantee for any team.

[edavis0308]

OK, my bad. I was thinking leadoff single, then run scoring triple. I still bring out Correia for the 8th, but yes, with a lead, runner on 3rd, and 1 out, I would have pulled Correia.

 

So you piled it on everyone, telling them to learn the game and calling everyone babies, etc, when you misremembered the entire sequence of the inning? Got it.

[Guest USAFChief]

OK, my bad. I was thinking leadoff single, then run scoring triple. I still bring out Correia for the 8th, but yes, with a lead, runner on 3rd, and 1 out, I would have pulled Correia.

Gilda Radner Quotes Never Mind - Bing Videos

[glunn]

Are we still arguing about this 3 days later?

 

When an issue has been debated to death and the thread has descending into petty bickering, maybe it's time for the thread to be closed/locked.

 

Agreed and done.