Did the FO misevaluate their pitching additions?

[KirbyDome89]

4 hours ago, Mike Sixel said:

I don't know, they won the division the last two years.....for me, that buys them more than 1 year......

Do you think the problems are specific only to this season, or do they stretch back beyond just 1 year?

[cHawk]

On 9/9/2021 at 2:59 PM, Whitey333 said:

The important stuff will happen between now and February????.  If the past is any indication they will string us along, wait too long, and sign what's left over.  They have done that for years.  Why should we expect anything different?  The FO is paid millions to manage this roster.  They should be held accountable when it doesn't work.  Bad luck?  Come on. They made bad choices and now we are left to see again, and again what bottom of the barrel pitchers they will sign.

The only way you can really hold them accountable is firing them. Either that or they stay around.

[farmerguychris]

I've been thinking about this lately - I am wondering if our pitching additions failed to live up to previous year's hype specifically because of the pedigrees of the pitchers we signed.  For the past couple of years - we found diamonds in the rough that were trying to keep their MLB careers alive.  This year, we signed established players.  Do you think perhaps the established guys were more reluctant to accept pitching advise from Johnson when compared to the younger/unproven guys - therefore we got what we got when we signed them instead of being able to depend on their good faith efforts to improve like the unproven pitchers that we had success with the previous 2 years?

[Brock Beauchamp]

1 hour ago, farmerguychris said:

I've been thinking about this lately - I am wondering if our pitching additions failed to live up to previous year's hype specifically because of the pedigrees of the pitchers we signed.  For the past couple of years - we found diamonds in the rough that were trying to keep their MLB careers alive.  This year, we signed established players.  Do you think perhaps the established guys were more reluctant to accept pitching advise from Johnson when compared to the younger/unproven guys - therefore we got what we got when we signed them instead of being able to depend on their good faith efforts to improve like the unproven pitchers that we had success with the previous 2 years?

Unlikely. Matt Shoemaker, whether he's right or wrong, talked about how the Twins tried to change his approach and it made him worse.

While that's a dodgy story IMO, he continued to be bad after leaving the org, it leads me to believe he wasn't ignoring coaches' attempts to improve his pitching.

[gunnarthor]

1 hour ago, farmerguychris said:

I've been thinking about this lately - I am wondering if our pitching additions failed to live up to previous year's hype specifically because of the pedigrees of the pitchers we signed.  For the past couple of years - we found diamonds in the rough that were trying to keep their MLB careers alive.  This year, we signed established players.  Do you think perhaps the established guys were more reluctant to accept pitching advise from Johnson when compared to the younger/unproven guys - therefore we got what we got when we signed them instead of being able to depend on their good faith efforts to improve like the unproven pitchers that we had success with the previous 2 years?

I think it's more likely an example of throw a bunch of stuff against the wall and see what sticks. We (and most teams) do stuff like that every year to fill out the end of a pitching staff. Guys like Harper and Parker were nice stories but Magill and Marin were not. 

[jimbo92107]

I think the FO looked at their very bright pitcher prospect list, then realized it wasn't going to bear fruit in 2021. So they did what the Twins usually do - They kept a couple front line starters, then picked up some warm bodies to fill the rotation until the real harvest begins, hopefully in 2022. That's when we should have several plausible prospects arrive in spring training. Balazovic, Richardson, Duran, Winder, Cantarino, Sands, and He-who-must-not-be-named, Chris Valdimort, who is an evil wizard, but hey, if he can get guys out, I say give him a chance.

These guys should be competing with Jax, Gant, Dobnak and Thorpe for the last two or three spots on the starting ro. Be prepared to watch another season of vigorous musical chairs between AA, AAA and the MLB teams. However, 2022 should be closer to a true harvest of talent from the farm system. Would you bet against ALL of the minor league arms at this point? 

If I had to bet, I'd put my money on the guys that show the best command in spring. The old K/BB ratio will play heavily, along with keeping pitches on the frame. Twins want stingy pitchers. Don't we all.